There are a lot of distractions in this thread, for better or worse. I think the heart of the matter is that the community needs to, collectively, decide whether or not it is worth it to organize and move to a different domain rather than accept corporate ownership. It seems to me that this should be considered reasonably and neutrally. In the interest of that and hearing what others have to say about that, I will write down what I feel the advantages and disadvantages of each approach are, in good faith.
Option 1. Stay on resetera.com, take MOBA Network at their word on not changing this place too much, come back to the matter if they make changes that cross the line.
Pros:
- We're here already. Can kick back, resume posting about video games, snack foods, billiards, etc. This is pretty neat.
- They have resources a community-owned forum won't. We don't know what they will spend on this place, but there certainly is some chance that more money will be put into the site that the community could ever produce by itself as it is now. This is, however, mitigated by the fact that resetera is massively profitable on its own. You can make a lot of Website for 700k/year if you put that money back into development and that *doesn't* require MOBA network.
- They have access to traffic we don't currently, and some of those users will sincerely be cool, and it'd be cool if those users signed up. While we've all seen the linked examples showing the worst that their forum network has to offer, it'd be overly pessimistic not to acknowledge that some of the people on those "sister sites" would genuinely be welcome contributors to this site. If anyone from one of those sites is here already, welcome!
Cons:
- There may never again be as big an "inciting incident" as the sale of the site. Right now, they are watching carefully. They know that the slightest misstep could have users scrambling for another website. Right now, and only right now, they have to be extremely careful. This is where their assurances that they aren't going to make big changes come from - they don't want a revolt. Instead, if individual small changes are made, then some people will be mad, and some people will leave, but it might well never feel big enough to rouse a large portion of the community to move somewhere else. In some sense this is our biggest chance to make any sort of move and not doing so is squandering it. The first change I expect is them cracking down severely on anyone trying to openly organize another site. This period where they watch and wait will end soon enough.
- Corporate control is control. They can do whatever they want with the site. They will act with motive towards profit rather than what the community wants. Whole books can be written on the evils that have been wrought through profit-seeking and I trust I don't need to say more than that. They have promised no big changes, but there is nothing at all holding them to that. They didn't buy the site not to make it grow in profit. They are smart enough not to come in hot making a bunch of changes right off the bat, because people will leave en masse in an organized fashion. Instead, slowly they'll make changes over time. Some will be good and some will be bad, but overall, it will not be up to the community what happens.
- Potential for data harvesting, even more aggressive advertising, people wandering over from "sister sites" and spouting hate speech. These have been well-discussed throughout the thread and are serious concerns.
Option 2. Organize the community, and form a new site, and do it right this time. No individual is in charge.
Pros:
- Community ownership structure. Decisions about the site can be made purely on the basis of what is right for the community, and without any sort of compromising profit motive. It can be run as a non-profit explicitly with a board and bylaws that prevent any one person from taking control. This is what resetera ought to have been from the start and it is a real shame that it was not set up that way. The community has the opportunity to learn this lesson for good if they start their own site. This is just.....how things ought to be. The forums earn money which is used to improve the forums. Rent-seeking external players won't be able to pull cash out of it - all the money can go back to the site.
- Control over monetization methods. Even a community-owned site needs money to run, but it doesn't need to be maximally profitable to run, and we don't have to abide by any sort of intrusive advertising if we don't want to.
- An organization devoted to acting on the community's behalf will mean that the community will never again be without a strong advocate in any business dealings this place has. There's no owner's interests vs community interests if the owner of the site is an organization that is bound contractually to act in the interests of the community.
- Honestly, it's very funny to imagine MOBA Network paying $4.5 million for some web hosting space and a domain name. The idea that a company can "own" a community is ludicrous and dark and I personally find it very satisfying when a community successfully demonstrates otherwise.
Cons
- It is work to set up a new site. Lots of decisions to make, organizing to do. I won't pretend this is trivial, it is not at all, but if any community can manage to spread this work out, it's this one. Resetera has the numbers and the resources to make all of this happen.
- Like any transition (neogaf -> resetera included), some people won't make the jump. They won't feel like moving. They have inertia in coming to this site but won't bother with a new one. This is a real loss and something to consider. If I were more convinced of MOBA Networks good intentions this would be the basis of an argument for staying, but I am afraid I am not, and so I'm forced to compare them with people who will leave in frustration over a MOBA Network decision.
- Lose out on four years of posts or at least, break up the archive. The posts will still be here to read but there is a loss of continuity in long-running threads.
I realize this is all a little out of nowhere, so before I go on to synthesize what I think the correct course of action is, I want to give a bit of my background. I have been posting on traditional community web forums for over twenty years at this point, the majority of my life. I am deeply invested in their success as a medium and want them to thrive. They are so much better than social media services are and I don't want to see the ecosystem get smaller.
Twice in my life, I've had a forum I posted on become "uninhabitable". This was an earlier poster's wording and I thought it was well-put. The first time began much like this. The owner of what was a community site had sold it to a corporation, in this case, an online gaming news site. They made promises to not change anything, and the admins, not wanting to disrupt the owner's deal, encouraged us to wait and see how it turns out. The changes came slowly over time. We were limited in what topics we could discuss, limited in what games we could criticize, etc. It got pretty bad, but there was never any breaking point. Our time to organize was when the sale was announced, not the fifth time they banned a long-time community member for criticizing their corporate decrees. How did this one end? AOL acquired the gaming news site, and promptly deleted the forum without a second thought. They bought it for the articles. Years and years of posts, gone forever, with no backup. Some parts of the community managed to re-organize on another site, but it would have been a lot more successful if we had done so right away instead of waiting for everyone to scatter into the internet wind.
The second time was much like neogaf. In 2020, the owner of a Something Awful proved to be of....dubious moral character. (long story) The site was uninhabitable while he was in charge. Instead of folding and let this happen, I struck back. The community made it very clear that he was unwelcome, and used our leverage to force him to sell at a low price, preserving twenty years of internet history and our community. I am the user who stepped up and made sure that ended without a corporate acquisition or opportunistic cash-grab. I put every dollar the site makes back into it, and I see. So I hope you all can imagine why, as the owner of Something Awful, I am interested in seeing web forums as a medium succeed. I honestly came here to observe one of the few old-style forums that is as large as ours, and I found myself upset reading this thread. It truly is a missed opportunity that this place wasn't started by someone who would truly put the community first, in ownership structure as well as monetization. 700k/year is an insane amount of money for a web forum and could have been doing so much good. Surely your community has members who, like me, are able and willing to set up a business that puts the community first and always will. If you believe in your heart of hearts that you are one of those people, who is selfless in that way, now is the time to come forward and show some leadership. Your people need you.
In my most humble opinion, I think the pros of self-ownership outweigh the negatives. Right now, and only right now, the users of this site can organize and make sure this community stays intact and in control of its destiny. If MOBA Network believes they have something to offer, let them come to the community, on a site run by the community, and pitch it to the users. Let the people decide and not just the designated person at the top. This is a position of strength from which the community has grounds to make demands and potentially work out a mutually beneficial arrangement, unlike meagerly asking for concessions on a site they already own. I made this post in hopes that others can look at my list of pros and cons, and decide for themselves. I realize that not everyone is going to draw the same conclusions but my hope is that we can have this conversation, rather than getting sidetracked. It's the most important thing by far and, in my opinion,
what ought to be done needs to be done right away.
