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Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,283
Midgar, With Love
My interest in this forum has waned over the years. The site has become more hostile, aggressive, and unwelcoming. Long-time members have been leaving steadily for a while now or are hiding in OTs that slowly get dismantled. New members are harder and harder to come by as forums fall from popularity. I was going to post my thoughts and suggestions. I've been part of this thing for well over a decade. I have an emotional attachment to it and desire to try and help. Bring in a level-headed point of view. I wanted to try and start a discussion here about ways to improve.

But after seeing this thread evolve and circle back around to SalesERA, I was reminded this isn't a place worth fighting for anymore. Reminded why I stopped contributing in the general forums years ago. Not because of some owner. Not because of some mod/member relationship issues that are completely fixable. But because the soul of this place isn't what it once was. That joy when we first came here, where everyone was legitimately happy, is gone and the community has grown into some spiteful hate-filled group. There are good people here, but they get drowned out so quickly. There is good discussion to be had, but it's gate-kept and immediately polarized. Positive topics get 100 views and 10 replies while negative topics get thousands. It is no surprise this thread is full of negative hypothetical situations and finger pointing instead of the community banding together.

It isn't hard for OT communities to splinter off and leave when the general idea of ResetEra is no longer worth fighting for. If their community feels attacked they pick up and leave because the general ResetEra isn't what it once was and it isn't worth the effort/fight to stay here and make it a better place. If it was there would be more earnest discussions with mods to rectify problems. The community system worked here because everyone used to still tie back to the general forums. That tie got severed somewhere along the way. People say the OTs are the back-bone of this community, but they really aren't, there needs to be something that holds it all together, a larger sense of community. That was the ideal when we came here.

I think the community needs to look itself in the mirror and seriously consider they may be the ones to snuff out what good is left before MOBA even has a chance to because they've been doing it for years now. Worry about that first.

Just wanted to say, I really appreciate this post and totally understand where you're coming from. A ResetEra with - as you put it - "a larger sense of community" is what I fell in love with early on. It's still here, I'd contest... but in spurts, not streams. (OK, look, I've been up for like 35 hours so forgive any weird-sounding vernacular.)

#MakeCommunityReign
 

JackDT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,123
I always assumed this site was community owned and run. Wasn't it a big cooperative project when it was created?

The whole site is actually just owned by one person? They take all the revenue?

How did this site end up in that situation -- a single owner -- after it was created by a big group of people at the start?
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
Also: I don't know why you all have this idea about Era Clear being done explicitly to help support the site or that people were ripped off for buying it.


Note the highlighted portion in the link above (bolded here):


It was always about just removing ads from your experience.
The portion you highlighted is just making it explicit that the only benefit a user gets from the subscription is ad removal, and there are no other benefits bestowed on a subscriber like special forum access, status, immunity from the rules, or any other perk.

Let me highlight a different portion
As an Era Clear subscriber you can retain the cleanest possible browsing experience while taking pride in giving something back. However, while we appreciate your support, we cannot offer any other benefit or consideration over other members. You will still be expected to follow the rules. This is strictly about ad removal. If you happen to get banned, we will cancel your subscription for you.
and see the language here, "Directly support the community you love".

54j3TXo.png


The subscription was presented as a way to support the site and community, and in return for your support, you get an ad-free experience (something which could be achieved for free with the use of an ad blocker). I don't know how many people would have chosen not to donate if the financials were more transparent - after all, people still donate lots of money to top streamers because they enjoy their content - but judging by the reactions here a lot of people were under the impression the site was not nearly as financially sound as it was.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
giphy.gif

The owner hasn't been paid yet, if we all hide in a new site called FreshEpoch or something equally stupid as Resetera, then he might have to cancel the whole thing. I don't wanna fuck about with discords again, i didn't know what the fuck was going on last time.
 

breakfuss

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,538
people basically want it so that anything they personally find a problem with should be banned. When you get a bunch of people together who all have their own thoughts and separate things they think should get banned, you get sentiment like "this place is under-moderated"
The mods' intentions seem to be in the right place but as the policy stands shit has become inhospitable. We all have blindspots or misspeak. Everyone. But to be characterized as the choice -phobic of the week or accused of "dismissing concerns of [insert] in a sensitive topic" anytime you post something that misaligns with certain views is insane. It seems like people weaponize the 'report' function, and I don't know why the mods capitulate. If you're overwhelmed bring MORE mods on to help? It didn't always used to be like this and it's maddening.
 
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Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,212
The company website has a syntax error on its front page. You'd have to be sick to sell out a website to a mess like that.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,085
I think one problem is that it's impossible to hit EVERYBODY's preferred level of moderation activity. Some posters think the mods are overaggressive tyrants who constantly abuse their power, and other people think the mods are lackadaisical nobodies who sit around and let bad actors ruin the site. How can both of these things be true at the same time?

The reality of the situation is that Era is made of dozens if not hundreds of tiny microcommunities who all have their own expectations of the mods, and those expectations are foundationally incompatible with each other. It's simply not possible for a human moderation staff to account for every community's expectations.

Which has been one of the big problems of the forum, imo. It feels like everybody is suspicious of everybody.

There are plenty of enjoyable places I post on this forum, which is why I've been here since the beginning, but it's definitely been an issue.
 

Zomba13

#1 Waluigi Fan! Current Status: Crying
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,940
I always assumed this site was community owned and run. Wasn't it a big cooperative project when it was created?

The whole site is actually just owned by one person? They take all the revenue?

How did this site end up in that situation -- a single owner -- after it was created by a big group of people at the start?

Anyone who had any stake in the website was bought out over the years as they decided to sell or leave or step down etc.
 

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,971
I always assumed this site was community owned and run. Wasn't it a big cooperative project when it was created?

The whole site is actually just owned by one person? They take all the revenue? How did it end up in that situation after it was created by a big group of people at the start?
One of the original founders quietly consolidated power, negotiated the site's future behind the community's back, and then peaced out with a big bag of cash.


ref-with-yellow-cards-fifa18.gif
 

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Norn Iron
I always assumed this site was community owned and run. Wasn't it a big cooperative project when it was created?

The whole site is actually just owned by one person? They take all the revenue?

How did this site end up in that situation -- a single owner -- after it was created by a big group of people at the start?

Saw this earlier:
Most former launch admins (Me, Zhuge, Nibel, Shinobi, Nicole) did not have any shares or ownership in Resetera. We weren't paid a cent. We definitely worked for free. That's one (of many) reasons we all left early.

Only the system administrators (Era's tech team) had shares/ownership in the company. By late 2018, the tech team sold their shares to Cerium and he became the sole owner.
famiboards.com

ResetEra has been sold to M.O.B.A networks

While I generally have massive sympathies for the era staff- and can even empathize for how they have to be hardliners in some regards- I'll never figure out how exactly they work to say the least, and I think commenting on specific mod activity off-site is a good way to start putting up some...

I was here from the start and thought it was still owned by multiple people until this sale TBH! I had hoped a different funding path would have been taken when it was starting up, but instead we ended up with a sole owner of the community again.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
Shit...and to think i made Era logo for free because it was a community effort to get everybody together under one organized place again.
Seeing those numbers is not a good look for sure, i can't imagine volunteering for years.

In my humble opinion grabbing the bag alone is not a classy move.
Cerium pay the fucking man Jesus Christ come the fuck on.

Seriously, wow, fucking wow.
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,735
Which has been one of the big problems of the forum, imo. It feels like everybody is suspicious of everybody.

There are plenty of enjoyable places I post on this forum, which is why I've been here since the beginning, but it's definitely been an issue.
This is an internet thing, not an Era thing. Sure we see it more often because it's a smaller userbase than, say, Twitter, but this is literally how internet discourse shifted roughly around 2016. But everybody assuming the worst of everybody else is the default notion a lot of the time, and it's so frustrating to deal with and see. I mean if someone is being patently racist or something, then sure, go off, but saying "I don't like thing" doesn't automatically mean they are attacking you personally.

I've said it many times. Most reports are one of two (or both, somehow) things:

1) Platform wars
2) Hostility

Everyone talks about "community" all the time, but that's basically becoming "clique" and "insular" as time goes on.

And before anyone says anything, because see the third sentence of the first paragraph of this post, no, you don't have to like everyone, and if someone is a an asshole, you don't need to lower some sort of moral or ethical stance to "accommodate" them. I'm talking about shit that doesn't matter, like disliking a game or liking a specific movie or whatever.
 

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,332
I always assumed this site was community owned and run. Wasn't it a big cooperative project when it was created?

The whole site is actually just owned by one person? They take all the revenue?

How did this site end up in that situation -- a single owner -- after it was created by a big group of people at the start?

I think no one remembered to ask or thought it was necessary and there was no communication between the owner and the community.

I read the article Jason Scheirer wrote for Kotaku when Resetera began and found this pretty ironic:
"After less than a day, ResetEra already appears to be faster and more lively than the current NeoGAF board. The group that founded ResetEra say they set it up as an LLC, and that no single person will be in charge of the site, which they hope will prevent the same catastrophe from happening again."
 
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skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
Didn't Evilore had a 8-number offer that he refused once?

Let that sink in, Evilore had more integrity for his forum than our champ here.
was that "integrity" or did he not sell because he thought he could do better or loved the "status" that came with owning the preeminent video game forum.

I'm gonna say no, you do not have to hand it to Evilore.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,532
Didn't Evilore had a 8-number offer that he refused once?

Let that sink in, Evilore had more integrity for his forum than our champ here.

Evilore didn't have any "integrity"; he had ego. There's a big difference.

Cerium's apparent greed and lack of integrity does not improve Evilore's image one iota in hindsight, no.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
Evilore didn't have any "integrity"; he had ego. There's a big difference.

Cerium's apparent greed and lack of integrity does not improve Evilore's image one iota in hindsight, no.
I don't mean to elevate Lore with what I said one bit, believe me. More like despite of how shit of a person he truly was at least he didn't sell out. But yeah, could be a ego thing, but you gotta have one massive ego to turn down this amount of money for internet street cred. :lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,432
Shit...and to think i made Era logo for free because it was a community effort to get everybody together under one organized place again.
Seeing those numbers is not a good look for sure, i can't imagine volunteering for years.

In my humble opinion grabbing the bag alone is not a classy move.

Cerium: "Thank you."
Wolf-of-wall-streetrexfeatu.jpg





But seriously, that sucks. He took advantage of absolutely everyone involved. And the height of cynicism is he's hiding behind mental illnesses to justify his greed.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,085
This is an internet thing, not an Era thing. Sure we see it more often because it's a smaller userbase than, say, Twitter, but this is literally how internet discourse shifted roughly around 2016. But everybody assuming the worst of everybody else is the default notion a lot of the time, and it's so frustrating to deal with and see. I mean if someone is being patently racist or something, then sure, go off, but saying "I don't like thing" doesn't automatically mean they are attacking you personally.

I've said it many times. Most reports are one of two (or both, somehow) things:

1) Platform wars
2) Hostility

Everyone talks about "community" all the time, but that's basically becoming "clique" and "insular" as time goes on.

And before anyone says anything, because see the third sentence of the first paragraph of this post, no, you don't have to like everyone, and if someone is a an asshole, you don't need to lower some sort of moral or ethical stance to "accommodate" them. I'm talking about shit that doesn't matter, like disliking a game or liking a specific movie or whatever.

I actually somewhat disagree. Not so much that it's not exclusive to Era (can't really argue that), but it's one of the few gaming places I've ever posted where it seemed like users were trying to out others as closet alt-righters or something. And some over the years were perma'd for things they accused others of being, like they were so wound up in assuming the worst in others and didn't realize others saw the worst in them. I typically post on multiple boards, and it's something that's been quite pronounced here.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,963
Evilore didn't have any "integrity"; he had ego. There's a big difference.

Cerium's apparent greed and lack of integrity does not improve Evilore's image one iota in hindsight, no.

This is where you lose the mods. Present and even most former.

Could things have been more transparent? Possibly. I don't know, (I honestly don't care because I did not spare nann two seconds thinking about the money side of things. My wallet wasn't involved).

But Cerium is, without hesitation, one of the kindest, nicest people I've met on these internets. A mainstay in my DMs. One of the handful of people checking in on me when nobody else was.

I have his personal phone number. I know his name.

A lot of this conversation is, admittedly, beyond me. But it's so, so difficult to read.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,408
Phoenix
I think I've reached the point where I either have to stop reading this thread or stop coming to this website. Every time I read this thread my opinion of the place drops like a hammer. Man I didn't even know about the media create drama :( Either way, going to take a long break. Peace era.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Ireland
This is where you lose the mods. Present and even most former.

Could things have been more transparent? Possibly. I don't know, (I honestly don't care because I did not spare nann two seconds thinking about the money side of things. My wallet wasn't involved).

But Cerium is, without hesitation, one of the kindest, nicest people I've met on these internets. A mainstay in my DMs. One of the handful of people checking in on me when nobody else was.

I have his personal phone number. I know his name.

A lot of this conversation is, admittedly, beyond me. But it's so, so difficult to read.
If he's so kind and contactable then please ask him to return to the thread he made and respond to the concerns raised.
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,735
I actually somewhat disagree. Not so much that it's not exclusive to Era (can't really argue that), but it's one of the few gaming places I've ever posted where it seemed like users were trying to out others as closet alt-righters or something. And some over the years were perma'd for things they accused others of being, like they were so wound up in assuming the worst in others and didn't realize others saw the worst in them. I typically post on multiple boards, and it's something that's been quite pronounced here.
I can't speak really for other boards, it's just something I notice on larger places as a whole. Twitter, Reddit, places like that. Granted some places on other boards I don't browse past gaming side so I may not see it, but still. Not saying you're wrong, just that I feel like I see these things are prevalent in a lot of places.
 

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,452
Tulsa, Oklahoma
I think I've reached the point where I either have to stop reading this thread or stop coming to this website. Every time I read this thread my opinion of the place drops like a hammer. Man I didn't even know about the media create drama :( Either way, going to take a long break. Peace era.
Nothing wrong with taking a break my friend. Peace and hope to see you soon.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
This is where you lose the mods. Present and even most former.

Could things have been more transparent? Possibly. I don't know, (I honestly don't care because I did not spare nann two seconds thinking about the money side of things. My wallet wasn't involved).

But Cerium is, without hesitation, one of the kindest, nicest people I've met on these internets. A mainstay in my DMs. One of the handful of people checking in on me when nobody else was.

I have his personal phone number. I know his name.

A lot of this conversation is, admittedly, beyond me. But it's so, so difficult to read.
Nope. Won't do that. Because I know what y'all will do to him. What you're itching to do to him.

Come the hell on man, come on.

I mean, come on now.

You're going to come here, to this place, and tell me Cerium wasn't oblivious to the fact that this would trigger an absolute shitshow? That people wouldn't do a background check? That people who helped out in the beginnings wouldn't come out to say they feel like they pretty much got fucked over?

I don't believe one bit of it. Or you downright got paid to say that, I don't know what to think of your post except that your good friend took the money and fucking ran with it. Sorry if I'm rude but that's how he looks.

"What you're itching to do to him"? Like what, he's gonna read rough, unhappy mean words and then will sleep on a bed of life changing money built on the backs of others, yeah right, big deal.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
If he's so kind and contactable then please ask him to return to the thread he made and respond to the concerns raised.

Biting at someone who isn't responsible for this doesn't do anything but cause hurt and trouble. It certainly isn't going to get you the answers you want anyway.

It's become clear that Cerium was close and helpful to the staff even though he wasn't really around publicly. And while the fact that he was that distant while being the sole owner feels weird to me too, it's also now way too late to change that and the staff aren't responsible for it.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,072
Nope. Won't do that. Because I know what y'all will do to him. What you're itching to do to him.

LOL, dude has 4.5m, he doesn't need anyone to protect him, especially from some nerds asking questions on a forum.

Honestly, just coming into the thread telling us to fuck off and give the middle finger would be better than nothing IMO. Least that'd put an end to it.
 
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Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,963
Come the hell on man, come on.

I mean, come on now.

You're going to come here, to this place, and tell me Cerium wasn't oblivious to the fact that this would trigger an absolute shitshow? That people wouldn't do a background check? That people who helped out in the beginnings wouldn't come out to say they feel like they pretty much got fucked over?

I don't believe one bit of it. Or you downright got paid to say that, I don't know what to think of your post except that your good friend took the money and fucking ran with it. Sorry if I'm rude but that's how he looks.

LOL

I got paid to say that.

Believe what you want.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,432
This is where you lose the mods. Present and even most former.

Could things have been more transparent? Possibly. I don't know, (I honestly don't care because I did not spare nann two seconds thinking about the money side of things. My wallet wasn't involved).

But Cerium is, without hesitation, one of the kindest, nicest people I've met on these internets. A mainstay in my DMs. One of the handful of people checking in on me when nobody else was.

I have his personal phone number. I know his name.

A lot of this conversation is, admittedly, beyond me. But it's so, so difficult to read.
Yeah, you were helping him (as a volunteer may I add) make 700 000 US$ per year (and ultimately grab dat 4 500 000 $ golden parachute), it's only natural he was nice to you.
Isn't that quite obvious now?
 

JackDT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,123
I think no one remembered to ask or thought it was necessary and there was no communication between the owner and the community.

I read the article Jason Scheirer wrote for Kotaku when Resetera began and found this pretty ironic:
"After less than a day, ResetEra already appears to be faster and more lively than the current NeoGAF board. The group that founded ResetEra say they set it up as an LLC, and that no single person will be in charge of the site, which they hope will prevent the same catastrophe from happening again."

Oh yeah. Crazy how ownership consolidates.
 

New002

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,704
I'll speak for myself, dunno what, if any, conversations others have had.

No I didn't know, but I wasn't naive to think that it wasn't a fair amount being made over time. I'll say that 4.5M definitely surprised me, mostly because…well, it's a forum.

But no, I didn't ask either, mainly just out of apathy and it being irrelevant to my work here. Again I was here when the site started without any expectation of compensation, and I never made any decisions that were influenced by shit like "oh no what will happen to revenue if we do this????", so it just didn't matter to me.

Should I have cared more? Eh, maybe. As long as people could hold discussions and talk about how terrible Xenoblade 2 is, I was pretty content.

Gotcha. Appreciate the response! I know you're just speaking for yourself but I feel like it might be a safe assumption then that others were probably in a similar boat of not being privy to such financial details.

Like you I think a lot of people knew the site had to be raking in money, and some people have brought it up over the years, but yeah those final numbers were a doozy indeed.

I gotta say as an outsider (not a mod or staff) I've been reading along and trying to put myself in the shoes of someone on staff, understanding that ofc I have no behind the scenes context to work with so I could every easily be way off base, but damn I can't help but think I'd feel some sort of way seeing those numbers, especially with something like era clear in the mix...and I'm not talking from a personal compensation perspective either.

More just like wow we were bringing in all this money... dang I bet we could have covered the server costs and tech staff, and still had plenty left over without the need to mess with this this era clear sub business...a chunk of which we could have donated even!

I think my ideal pie in the sky would have been the site only ever utilizing enough funds to cover server costs and staff, and the rest getting put into a charity/donation bucket that would get donated annually or quarterly or whatever. Have a thread each time to announce the donation along with some quick financial numbers, and cycle through various charities. A man can dreeeeeam.

Then there's the 4.5mil payout specifically but I think I've gone on long enough lol. Wrote more than I intended but the thoughts were rollin!

Anyways I know I went off on some tangents there with my own thoughts. Thanks again for the reply.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,963
Yeah, you were helping him (as a volunteer may I add) make 700 000 US$ per year (and ultimately grab dat 4 500 000 $ golden parachute), it's only natural he was nice to you.
Isn't that quite obvious now?

You don't need to add that, sweets. Nobody knows better than me what I volunteered to do.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,532
This is where you lose the mods. Present and even most former.

Could things have been more transparent? Possibly. I don't know, (I honestly don't care because I did not spare nann two seconds thinking about the money side of things. My wallet wasn't involved).

But Cerium is, without hesitation, one of the kindest, nicest people I've met on these internets. A mainstay in my DMs. One of the handful of people checking in on me when nobody else was.

I have his personal phone number. I know his name.

A lot of this conversation is, admittedly, beyond me. But it's so, so difficult to read.

I understand y'all have your personal relationships with each other, having worked together on a tough job for years. Believe me, I do; I've been a moderator and admin of a forum before.

How, precisely, does that justify him selling to an outside corporation with gross affiliations and walking away with 4.5m? As much work as I'm sure he did behind the scenes, this place is a community first and foremost, not something that should have ever been owned by a single individual -- and not something we ever had a say in, either (indeed, most people seem to have been in the dark).

While he may or may not have began with cynical intentions, and I'm sure you had positive experiences with him, look at where we've ended up at his sole discretion. Explain to me, someone without the personal bias of having been friends with him, how this result doesn't look like one gargantuan grift...?

I realize Era was formed in a scramble over the course of days, but the way its ownership was handled is just astonishingly antithetical to the values of most on the forum. It could and should have been a non-profit, not an LLC.

Make no mistake, though; I have zero desire to harass Cerium personally or anything. As far as I'm concerned he's a faceless person who virtually never participated in this community. But I have a whole lot of trouble looking at this end result and seeing integrity, let alone a lack of greed, when he's now a multi-millionaire because he had the luck and capital to start up the forum, then the wherewithal to buyout the other owners rather than something more ethical.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,129
If he's so kind and contactable then please ask him to return to the thread he made and respond to the concerns raised.
Even though it's hard to understand the total disconnect between the mods' full support of him and his next to total lack of presence and communication on the forum, nothing he would say would help, bring closure or just some understanding to people angry here.
 

Aminga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
912
I just checked, no threads that I could find.
I just checked, 1st time in four freaking years and there is a thread of them eating popcorn screenshoting everything and loving every minute of this with all their alt right fake bravado. I don't care about the old cesspool, I care<d> about this forum. This whole thread is crazy with defenders for Moba and cerium < MOST OF US DIDNT REALIZE HE WAS THE SOLE OWNER, when we joined it was a community run board no profit no agenda etc.> and trying to obfuscate the fact that at the middle of a night one of the best forums, most of us, our favorite forum has been sold to a company that is SURPRISE again alt right transphobic, Hate filled etc.
 

Mr. RPG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,051
Even though it's hard to understand the total disconnect between the mods' full support of him and his next to total lack of presence and communication on the forum, nothing he would say would help, bring closure or just some understanding to people angry here.

The forum was built on a huge lie and he made off with millions.

People aren't supposed to be angry?
 
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