Reselling games that have been removed from the digital store.

[Alucardx23]

One of the problems with digital game stores is that once a game is removed because of licensing issues, it will not be available for purchase. If you bought the game no problem, you can download it again as many times as you want, but if you want to buy the game there are no options for you. One way digital stores can help with this is by allowing the owner of the digital game that was removed to sell it. The digital store would only work as an intermediary to transfer the digital game from one account to the other by charging a fee for that. This would be similar to GameStop and how they sell used games, but only applied to digital games that have been removed.

 

[jeyu]

That's and the chance of losing all of yours games on a ban keep me purshasing digital titles only when they're heavily discounted

 

[TheMoon]

That will never work because you don't own a game, you own a license to play it and download it. You have no right to sell that license.

Physical games are objects, you sell those objects and that's fine because you're not technically selling the license.

 

[Alucardx23]

That will never work because you don't own a game, you own a license to play it and download it. You have no right to sell that license.

Physical games are objects, you sell those objects and that's fine because you're not technically selling the license.

Click to shrink...

Game developers and digital stores should agree to change that for games that are removed from the store, that is what I'm saying. By allowing to be a market for this type of games they could solve the current problem.

 

[Alucardx23]

That's and the chance of losing all of yours games on a ban keep me purshasing digital titles only when they're heavily discounted

Click to shrink...

There is really no problem for you if you got to buy the game when it was available, the problem is for the ones that want to buy the game after it was removed from the digital store.

 

[Com_Raven]

Such content removals are sadly very often due to expiring license agreements. So the question whether the digital platform could allow you to resell said game to someone else would probably also be a legal/ licensing one.

 

[LewieP]

No chance this would ever happen.

 

[Alucardx23]

Such content removals are sadly very often due to expiring license agreements. So the question whether the digital platform could allow you to resell said game to someone else would probably also be a legal/ licensing one.

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True, but I was just thinking about how GameStop does it. How come they have no problems selling used games that have been removed from the digital stores? There must be some loophole that allows you to do something similar with digital games. That's why I described the digital stores as someone that is only charging for transferring the game from one account to another. No new license for the game is being sold.

 

[Rickenslacker]

True, but I was just thinking about how GameStop does it. How come they have no problems selling used games that have been removed from the digital stores? There must be some loophole that allows you to do something similar with digital games. That's why I described the digital stores as someone that is only charging for transferring the game from one account to another. No new license for the game is being sold.

Click to shrink...

There is no loophole really, it's the method of supply for a physical retailer versus a digital one. It has nothing to do with the developers after a point.

In a brick and mortar store, they buy the product from the publisher, that is what accounts for products shipped. At that point, the publisher already has their money, it's on the retailer to sell those copies they've bought from the publisher. Once the licensing deal expires, they publisher can no longer print any more copies to sell to stores, but stores can still sell the copies they own because it's out publisher hands at that point. Similarly with reselling of games, when someone trades in a game, and then the store sells it used, 100% of the money is going to the store, nothing is going to publishers or license holders.

You can't do this in a digital space because it is entirely contingent on actually having the product in the publisher's hands for sale, it's not a case of needing to print a product to sell off to a store, the product is all there and the dynamics of the storefront are different. There's no purchasing product from publishers there.

 

[Brockxz]

That will never work because you don't own a game, you own a license to play it and download it. You have no right to sell that license.

Physical games are objects, you sell those objects and that's fine because you're not technically selling the license.

Click to shrink...

Buying physical games you still buy only a license to play it. You do not buy option to resell it or do anything other than to play it.

 

[Cokie Bear]

This isn't really that different from physical games tbh. Yes, you can always buy a physical copy of a game, but there's games out there that cost literally thousands to purchase, and you have to hope that someone is even selling a copy. There's many physical games out there that will always be unobtainable to most people simply because of the price.

 

[TheMoon]

Buying physical games you still buy only a license to play it. You do not buy option to resell it or do anything other than to play it.

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Which is exactly what I said.

You are reselling the physical media that happens to have the game on it.

 

[Alucardx23]

There is no loophole really, it's the method of supply for a physical retailer versus a digital one. It has nothing to do with the developers after a point.

In a brick and mortar store, they buy the product from the publisher, that is what accounts for products shipped. At that point, the publisher already has their money, it's on the retailer to sell those copies they've bought from the publisher. Once the licensing deal expires, they publisher can no longer print any more copies to sell to stores, but stores can still sell the copies they own because it's out publisher hands at that point. Similarly with reselling of games, when someone trades in a game, and then the store sells it used, 100% of the money is going to the store, nothing is going to publishers or license holders.

You can't do this in a digital space because it is entirely contingent on actually having the product in the publisher's hands for sale, it's not a case of needing to print a product to sell off to a store, the product is all there and the dynamics of the storefront are different. There's no purchasing product from publishers there.

Click to shrink...

But you are not purchasing anything from the digital store in my example. No one is selling anything. On my example someone is transferring the game from one account to another, just like you do with GameStop, when you transfer the game disc from one person to another.

 

[Alucardx23]

Which is exactly what I said.

You are reselling the physical media that happens to have the game on it.

Click to shrink...

OK, so under your example it would be OK if the digital store allows you to detach the digital copy from your account and then copy it to a USB memory you can sell?

 

[Rickenslacker]

But you are not purchasing anything from the digital store in my example. No one is selling anything. On my example someone is transferring the game from one account to another, just like you do with GameStop, when you transfer the game from one person to another.

Click to shrink...

Let's just say that publishers are not happy with used games as they stand but aren't in much of a position to do anything about it except wait for the inevitable death of brick and mortar. They would not be okay with having their games on a digital space that would do this.

 

[LewieP]

Let's just say that publishers are not happy with used games as they stand but aren't in much of a position to do anything about it except wait for the inevitable death of brick and mortar. They would not be okay with having their games on a digital space that would do this.

Click to shrink...

Right, the only leverage publishers have to prevent the likes of GameStop engaging in pre-owned sales for games (including those whose licenses have expired) would be to threaten to stop supplying them with new games, which would hurt the publisher more than GameStop.

Whereas a license holder can easily sue a publisher that's allowing continued sale of games on digital retailers, which is what op would be asking for.

An interesting loophole is things like Steam/eshop/PSN/Xbox live codes, which typically do not expire, even for games which have been delisted from sale.

 

[Deleted member 1659]

Interestingly, the relatove difficulty of getting these games combined with their scarcity has sort of developed into a collector's market for digital games. At least it has on Steam.

The 2009 reboot of Wolfenstein for instance is no longer on Steam. If you want it, there are people who will sell it to you at a significant premium for it.

 

[Alucardx23]

Let's just say that publishers are not happy with used games as they stand but aren't in much of a position to do anything about it except wait for the inevitable death of brick and mortar. They would not be okay with having their games on a digital space that would do this.

Click to shrink...

Sure, it's clear why developers don't like physical used game sales. On my example the digital store could share part of the transfer fee with the developer of the game. For me this is more about allowing for games that have been removed to be played by more people. That the game has to be removed because licensing issues is backwards by itself, I eventually expect for new licensing laws to be approved that stop this from happening.

 

[Rickenslacker]

On my example the digital store could share part of the transfer fee with the developer of the game.

Click to shrink...

And then you get the hammer dropped by the license owner on the publisher (developers aren't dealing with the sales) for making money on their property.

 

[Alucardx23]

Right, the only leverage publishers have to prevent the likes of GameStop engaging in pre-owned sales for games (including those whose licenses have expired) would be to threaten to stop supplying them with new games, which would hurt the publisher more than GameStop.

Whereas a license holder can easily sue a publisher that's allowing continued sale of games on digital retailers, which is what op would be asking for.

An interesting loophole is things like Steam/eshop/PSN/Xbox live codes, which typically do not expire, even for games which have been delisted from sale.

Click to shrink...

But on your example the license holder could also sue physical stores like GameStop from selling used games right? The question is why it doesn't happen and how physical stores can take advantage of that.

 

[Alucardx23]

And then you get the hammer dropped by the license owner on the publisher (developers aren't dealing with the sales) for making money on their property.

Click to shrink...

Just like they could sue GameStop from making money on their property right? It all depends on the wording, because on my example the digital store would not be making any profit from the game, just from the service of transferring the game from one account to another.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Just like they could sue GameStop from making money on their property right? It all depends on the wording, because on my example the digital store would not be making any profit from the game, just from the service of transferring the game from one account to another.

Click to shrink...

I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to talk about the legality of that, my assumption is that it's either too small peanuts for them to bother with, or due to their agreements being with the publisher and their extent in handling the property for the agreed upon time. The idea of the publisher themselves getting a cut on a game they no longer have the license towards is a big red flag and one that's more directly in the license holders crosshairs than a third party.

 

[LewieP]

But on your example the license holder could also sue physical stores like GameStop from selling used games right? The question is why it doesn't happen and how physical stores can take advantage of that.

Click to shrink...

The license holder don't have any contact with GameStop. They have a contact with the publisher, which the publisher would be breaching if they continued to sell the game.

 

[TheMoon]

OK, so under your example it would be OK if the digital store allows you to detach the digital copy from your account and then copy it to a USB memory you can sell?

Click to shrink...

No, it's never okay because that's not how these licensing agreements are constructed or how copyright law works. That's the whole thing. :)

 

[Alucardx23]

I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to talk about the legality of that, my assumption is that it's either too small peanuts for them to bother with, or due to their agreements being with the publisher and their extent in handling the property for the agreed upon time. The idea of the publisher themselves getting a cut on a game they no longer have the license towards is a big red flag and one that's more directly in the license holders crosshairs than a third party.

Click to shrink...

GameStop makes millions from used game sales, so I'm pretty sure license holders have the insentive there if they could sue. I do agree that it's a really grey area if the digital store shares the profit from the transfer fee with the developer. But again, it all depends on the wording.

 

[Alucardx23]

The license holder don't have any contact with GameStop. They have a contact with the publisher, which the publisher would be breaching if they continued to sell the game.

Click to shrink...

The license holder not being in contact with GameStop doesn't have anything to do with why they are not being sued. I haven't mentioned anything about the publisher selling the game here. Please read the OP.

 

[LewieP]

The license holder not being in contact with GameStop doesn't have anything to do with why they are not being sued. I haven't mentioned anything about the publisher selling the game here. Please read the OP.

Click to shrink...

Ok you're right it's just digital retailers being mean.

 

[Alucardx23]

Ok you're right it's just digital retailers being mean.

Click to shrink...

Don't take it in a bad way bro. This thread is just to understand how physical game stores can continue to sell licensed games after they have been removed from the digital store. If it is impossible, I need something more than someone saying that the digital retailers don't do it because they are being mean. ;)

 

[ByteCulture]

One of the problems with digital game stores is that once a game is removed because of licensing issues, it will not be available for purchase. If you bought the game no problem, you can download it again as many times as you want, but if you want to buy the game there are no options for you. One way digital stores can help with this is by allowing the owner of the digital game that was removed to sell it. The digital store would only work as an intermediary to transfer the digital game from one account to the other by charging a fee for that. This would be similar to GameStop and how they sell used games, but only applied to digital games that have been removed.

Click to shrink...

The purpose on digital is that you cant sell it anymore. That way the developers make sure everybody buys a copy and they dont lose like 100.000 Sales because of reselling. When i buy a digital game... i know that iam not going to resell it anyway.

 

[Alucardx23]

The purpose on digital is that you cant sell it anymore. That way the developers make sure everybody buys a copy and they dont lose like 100.000 Sales because of reselling. When i buy a digital game... i know that iam not going to resell it anyway.

Click to shrink...

We already have an example of a digital store that allows you to resell your games (https://www.robotcache.com). I completely understand why developers want to stop physical used game sales, but the case of the digital games that have been removed from the digital store after years/several months of being released is something completely different.

Reselling your digital games will soon be a reality, but what does that mean?
https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/11/17336644/sell-used-digital-pc-games-blockchain-robot-cache

 

[ByteCulture]

We already have an example of a digital store that allows you to resell your games (https://www.robotcache.com). I completely understand why developers want to stop physical used game sales, but the case of the digital games that have been removed from the digital store after years/several months of being released is something completely different.

Reselling your digital games will soon be a reality, but what does that mean?
https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/11/17336644/sell-used-digital-pc-games-blockchain-robot-cache

Click to shrink...

We are working with Blockchain too. Maybe i have to get in touch with Fargo about our future projects. :D

 

[Alucardx23]

We are working with Blockchain too. Maybe i have to get in touch with Fargo about our future projects. :D

Click to shrink...

You should. What they are doing seem very interesting.

"Utilizing blockchain technology, Robot Cache will reduce the fees publishers and developers pay by 80% and allow gamers to resell their digital PC video games. Developers and publishers benefit from the lowest transaction fees of any digital PC video game distribution platform. Everyone from the smallest indie team to the biggest publishers, will retain up to 95% of the sales proceeds, which is 25% higher than the current industry standard. In addition, Robot Cache's revolutionary digital resale market allows developers and publishers to set resale pricing and earn 70% of the resale proceeds."

https://help.robotcache.com/hc/en-u...ES-EARLY-ACCESS-TO-BEGIN-WITH-A-FOUNDERS-CLUB

 

[Alucardx23]

Steam Users Have the Right to Resell Their Digital Games Rules French Court

"A new ruling by a French court has the potential to radically alter the way people buy, sell, and play video games. For years French consumer rights group UFC Que Choisir have been embroiled in a legal battle with Valve Corporation over several clauses in the company's Steam user agreement, particularly the one that states you don't actually own games purchased on the popular digital storefront – you're merely subscribing to the games in your library. This clause means Steam users don't have certain basic consumer rights, like the ability to resell the games they buy."

https://wccftech.com/steam-resell-games-french-court/