• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
It's not just they expect more. They're putting more and more resources into COD, but it's not giving them the return that they want.

It went from Infinity Ward developing COD on its own to Infinity Ward, Treyarch, Sledgehammer Games, Raven Software, High Moon Studios, Beenox, Neversoft, Certain Affinity, Nerve Software, Mercenary Technology. Those are just the ones I could look up. It's a mountain of developers for one series. And that one series is largely what keeps the Activision side of ActiBlizzion up. Without Call of Duty, it would just be Blizzard.

Thing is, Treyarch, Infinity ward and Sledgehammer are the main developers for each COD project. The others are supporting studios for each project, which the exactly same happens in other companies like Ubisoft where Ubisoft Montreal makes a Assassin's Creed but it needs support from other studios like for example, Ubisoft Milan and other ones. With the size of the games, the majority of the development for AAA are like that. Or even smaller games where you need to outsource some aspects to other companies like many japanese companies do for TOSE and such.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
TmwLoZD.png

People should be rioting, burning shit down and dragging motherfuckers out if their houses.

Fuck this.
 

Halabane

Member
Nov 10, 2017
243
How much of this is related to not having to support Destiny and Bungie any more? I suspect there was support coming from other parts of Activision and even Blizzard. Sure some of it is also due to other issues but seems like a large part would be because of destiny going away. Wonder if they are rethinking esport investments.
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,644
huh what a shock, why do people think releasing the same stale thing every year will get more sales. also, they wasted overwatch so much.
 
Oct 28, 2017
27,093
The guy that hired me for my last job just went to work for Blizzard last summer. Moved out to the west coast, the whole 9 yards. Hope he's good, even though we have yet to fill his job.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
If you hate capitalism what would you propose? Want to be China or the former Soviet Union?

It always amazes me when the moment people criticise capitalism, they lurch to extremes to prove There Is No Alternative.

If the best humanity thinks it can do is neoliberal capitalism then let the rising tides take us.
 

Shadout

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,804
I think people are mistaking restructurations/layoffs with bad financial health. Activision Blizzard is a profitable company that made 7.4 billions in 2018, beating their own forecast.
Yeah, in the short term this is not an indication of financial issues.
But the cultural upheaval we have heard about last year at Blizzard, and now this, might be a reason if they fail at staying as profitable.
 

JayCB64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,984
Wales
I really hope that the layoffs doesn't screw over Overwatchs future, in esports and out..know it's a little selfish to be thinking like that, and first and formost I do not want anyone losing a job in the org at all even outside of the OW team and hope whatever happens they land on their feet asap, but given how far in we are to the games life I worry it will be hard hit by whats going on and just wind up as a dead game.

That business with the CFO considering this news is disgusting either way.
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,053
Ugh. Terrible news. Hoping that the talented employees that this affects land on their feet.
 

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,631
Atlanta, GA
This is depressing news. I have friends at Blizzard. I really hope theyre okay. Things have been really turbulent for Blizzard lately, and its a real shame.
 

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
That's why you have to direct your focus on the political aspect that allows this.

do you think i... don't do that

This financial imbalance is how it is in pretty much every large company out there in the world. If you look at other companies, it's literally how it is. Like in Disney, how do you think Bobby Igger receives compared to lower employees in a same scale like here? Not much?

yes thank you for explaining my own politics to me
 

Acidote

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,965
I wonder how those lay offs will be. HotS is of course on life support and I guess they'll cut the cord sooner than later.

Overwatch NEEDS more manpower on the developers side.



Fun stuff, the new CFO was probably one of the people that said there's too much of wages expenses and to fire people. That's the reason he's getting the hefty pay. He's doing his job, as deplorable a situation may be.

So what's with the layoffs?

Cutting expenses. To be even more profitable in numbers.
 

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
This isn't really surprising if you've been watching the company for some time, especially the past year or two. I think all of Blizzard's franchises are in decline with no sign of long-term improvement. Blizzard especially is slow to adapt to the market and just put out anything really. When you cut Blizzard out of the picture, the Activision portfolio is REALLY thin now, maybe half a dozen or fewer IPs that have an impact — really not a place you want to be in if any of those were to fail. They're not that diversified.

And yes, there was probably a fair bit of bloat, but times were good or great before so some extra mouths to feed wasn't a big deal.

Now that times are worse, they're looking to slim down and make cuts. It's really unfortunate that cuts are being made to developers though of course, because it's quite easy to point at massive amounts of mismanagement from executives or upper level management/producers/etc. as responsible, rather than the actions of a individual lower level devs. Most of the issues are at or stem from a macro level (whether design, creative, or business), rather than a pile of smaller issues.

If anything, there should be an audit on management/executives with some heads rolling there, but that's unlikely to happen of course with them having the power.

I won't go over everything they've miscalculated or done poorly as it would take too long to make an itemized list and I'm mostly familiar with Blizzard stuff anyway over the Activision side.

Just some quick ones in terms of Blizzard though:

-Communication to and acting appropriately on (solid) community feedback has been awful, some of the worst in the industry perhaps for years now, and while they sometimes improve momentarily, it has never lasted. The exact reason why is hard to pinpoint, but it probably started to be a lot worse after Greg Street was muffled and eventually left (WoW) + around when vanilla Diablo 3 was having so many issues and never lived up to the game promised/described in development, even after the Reaper of Souls expansion drastically repaired as many things as it realistically could.

-Extremely slow to adapt to industry trends, even if they often set them to some extent with every major release (but that doesn't help when major releases from Blizzard are realistically about a decade or more apart for any given franchise). Someone mentioned in some other thread that Starcraft 2 should have gone free to play maybe 5 years sooner than it eventually did and I can't disagree.

Sinking an ungodly amount of money into eSports (especially OWL now) for games (or the wrong aspects of their games) that aren't particularly well balanced or otherwise suited for high level competition is just a waste if the scene wouldn't have developed to a reasonable level organically.

Letting the Dota concept slip away and HotS more or less failing after being quite late to the party (sunk even further by the wrong development focus later on) is indicative of leadership that isn't forward thinking enough.

Either the people in charge of many decisions now or enough of the company as a whole is woefully out of touch with what the market in general and their customers specifically actually want or would like. Which is crazy when you've got an engaged fan base as large as they do, but they're not using it to their advantage.

It's like the developers at Blizzard hardly play the games they make, or even other games anymore, which is actually anecdotally true in some cases.

They're making games now for some imaginary target demographic with specific metric goals in mind (design by numbers or something) and not actual people anymore. They often fail to understand exactly why some feature was successful or unsuccessful and miss the details for some general fuzzier idea.

I said in another thread before this news came out that for WoW specifically (and other franchises too) they really need to take at least a week or two if not more and just have everyone sit down and play/study earlier iterations of the game to see what was actually successful or not and build on that. There's so many cases with WoW now where there were solutions to problems that worked previously that have been replaced with worse solutions or non-solutions — reinventing the wheel, like nothing existed before the past few years of the game.

Oh and the Diablo Immortal announcement (and subsequent response or lack thereof) fiasco is just another (blatant) indicator of how out of touch Blizzard has gotten, at least in terms of the people with the power to make meaningful decisions.

Anyway that's it for now, probably a bit excessive, but I'd like to see the company succeed after earlier Blizzard releases significantly impacting my childhood and adolescence and it saddens me that a long string of poor decisions is finally collecting its toll on people that probably aren't that responsible for the core issues.
 

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
Yeah wasn't Overwatch League supposed to be the big thing, with millions of dollars invested and now the game is already declining? Yikes
 

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,081
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
i absolutely can. the financial imbalance is going to be directly responsible for hundreds of lost jobs
The jobs were going to be lost anyway if you're looking at it like that. That bonus money was never meant to be used as a salary. Especially since it scales off of salary. Your issue I suppose is more with how much a CEO makes at a base, and that is where I said they earn the big bucks deservedly so.
 

Slyfox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
281
So for someone who doesn't pay attention to Overwatch how is the game doing? Is it growing, declining or staying the same. I know vaguely about OWL, how has it done?
 

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
So for someone who doesn't pay attention to Overwatch how is the game doing? Is it growing, declining or staying the same. I know vaguely about OWL, how has it done?

Stagnant at best, but realistically declining (rate debatable) as the industry moves forward and not much is done very quickly with the game.

Battle Royale games and particularly Fortnite and probably Apex now came in and stole a large portion of their playerbase. People really only have room for a handful of multiplayer GaaS-style games at most to be dedicated to at once. The busier you are otherwise (work/school/etc.), the fewer you can even potentially commit to.

Personally I think the OWL will end up being a massive waste of money, if not being something that's directly in the red, the opportunity cost from putting at least some of the investment elsewhere is catastrophically large.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
And the CEO will still make 30x what the average employee makes despite them being responsible.
 

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
The jobs were going to be lost anyway if you're looking at it like that. That bonus money was never meant to be used as a salary. Especially since it scales off of salary. Your issue I suppose is more with how much a CEO makes at a base, and that is where I said they earn the big bucks deservedly so.

for what?
 

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
How is WoW 2 on the table? As what kind of game? MMORPGs are a dead genre. Would they try to do another genre like Battle Royale or something else with it? We already saw what happened when they were late to the MOBA party. They've done about as much as they could with the Warcraft IP. The other Warcraft game they're working on is...a remaster of a 17 year old game. Aside from the inevitable mobile spinoff, I don't see where it can go at this point. Unless WC3 Reforged pumps life back into the long dead RTS genre.
 

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
How is WoW 2 on the table? As what kind of game? MMORPGs are a dead genre. Would they try to do another genre like Battle Royale or something else with it? We already saw what happened when they were late to the MOBA party. They've done about as much as they could with the Warcraft IP. The other Warcraft game they're working on is...a remaster of a 17 year old game. Aside from the inevitable mobile spinoff, I don't see where it can go at this point. Unless WC3 Reforged pumps life back into the long dead RTS genre.

I think you vastly underestimate the viability of MMOs. The problem is that WoW mostly suffocated all other competition in the space (some more niche games aside), sometimes through sheer inertia, so no reasonable direct competition ever arose and lasted for long. To make an MMO to even have a reasonable chance to compete with WoW let alone surpass it, the dev cycle would have to be at least 5 years if not more of AAA quality/levels of funding and that's an insane risk of an investment for something that might quite easily fizzle out of the gate. A single flawed design decision could be a fatal mistake.

Understandably, given the environment, it's not a risk anyone is willing to take unless they have piles of money they don't mind seeing burnt with potentially nothing to show for it. Even Blizzard themselves failed with Titan, salvaging what they could into Overwatch.

MMOs are easily the most complex and expensive games to make, and they require continuous post-release support to be truly successful. They're not something you go into lightly or expect to see quick returns on. So it's no surprise that BRs and "Looter Shooters" are a thing now, because they take some of the most successful/compelling parts of MMOs, but scale back the scope quite a bit to reduce initial and maintenance costs.
 

Thornquist

Member
Jan 22, 2018
1,499
Norway
People keep yelling at CEO's coasting on employers expense here, but Mike Morhaime did just step down.. you honestly think that is unrelated to this?
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
People keep yelling at CEO's coasting on employers expense here, but Mike Morhaime did just step down.. you honestly think that is unrelated to this?
There's this weird notion that somehow management is exempt from layoffs

They're hit just as hard most of the time. Redundancy beeing reduced means managerial positions beeing cut, at almost every level of management and not just first rank ones
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
Stagnant at best, but realistically declining (rate debatable) as the industry moves forward and not much is done very quickly with the game.

Battle Royale games and particularly Fortnite and probably Apex now came in and stole a large portion of their playerbase. People really only have room for a handful of multiplayer GaaS-style games at most to be dedicated to at once. The busier you are otherwise (work/school/etc.), the fewer you can even potentially commit to.

Personally I think the OWL will end up being a massive waste of money, if not being something that's directly in the red, the opportunity cost from putting at least some of the investment elsewhere is catastrophically large.
Opportunity cost in terms of investing in Overwatch or Blizzard directing their efforts to other games & move on from Overwatch?
 

Dark Ninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,070
This makes sense if they don't plan on doing anything with the people who were doing support for Destiny. Those studios were already doing COD support btw this is just downsizing. They may just start publishing more games now depending on how well Sekiro does.

Probably in danger of losing people

-High Moon
-SledgeHammer
-Beenox
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
912
Personally I think the OWL will end up being a massive waste of money, if not being something that's directly in the red, the opportunity cost from putting at least some of the investment elsewhere is catastrophically large.

They really should've let the scene develop on it's own with just a bit of incentive on their part. Like how Valve does CS:GO.
 

LordDraven

Banned
Jan 23, 2019
2,257
This fucking sucks. No other way to put it.

Here i was hoping that Activision would use the loss of Destiny to expand their new IPs and produce more fun and exciting games.

Apparently that won't be the case. The best to their devs all across the country.
How would a loss of an ip. Tears that? Come on man...
 

Deleted member 11976

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,585
If true, this sucks. We have openings at Ubisoft Toronto. Same handle on twitter if anyone laid off needs to get in touch about new opportunities.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,722
They really should've let the scene develop on it's own with just a bit of incentive on their part. Like how Valve does CS:GO.

I don't understand why some publishers (like Blizzard) take this stranglehold over the E-Sports scene for their games and force it on everyone. Not only does it cost a lot of money to set up, but it comes across as fake, unauthentic, and forced.

E-sports should be organic and driven by the players. Watching Smash Ultimate at Genesis 6 last weekend was so genuine and exciting. Every single person was there because they wanted to be there and put effort into making it happen. A completely grassroots scene that blew up into something big. That's what it's all about.