It's not infighting. It's literally pointing out the biggest problem America faces as a country. it's more important than calling trump stupid or whatever. Trump will gone relatively soon whatever happens.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Rep. Ilhan Omar: the “hope and change” offered by Barack Obama was a mirage
- Thread starter OtherWorldly
- Start date
- Status
I agree. I just think that before Trump the potential for the country to trend progressive and actually improve was there. I just think its wrong to place the blame squarely on Obama when for him being the first black president was a big deal, and trying to not get lynched by racist Republicans seemed like a contant struggle. Little did he know that being completely inoffensive would still launch nazis and hatred into the stratosphere. I think it's pointless to keep looking back at him when the current Democrats have seen the results of their ineffectual lack of effort and are still not championing people like Omar.
Obama was an incremental move in the right direction for America. But that does mean he had the ability to magical fix all the shitty thing America has been involved in for centuries. He also did not have a congress that backed his move for most of his terms. American cry about wanting healthcare, but the sure did gather in mass to vote out their representatives that gave us the first stepping stone since the New Deal. American don't want war, yet they want cheap gas and gas guzzlers without having cut back on their own consumption.
It is not just the leaders in America that is the problem, it the culture of the people. The people, even liberals, tend to be greedy, it got mine, screw everyone else mindset.
Omar is not wrong. People loved listing to Obama message of hope and change. But the majority of those same people never lifted a finger to help enact that hope and change.
It is not just the leaders in America that is the problem, it the culture of the people. The people, even liberals, tend to be greedy, it got mine, screw everyone else mindset.
Omar is not wrong. People loved listing to Obama message of hope and change. But the majority of those same people never lifted a finger to help enact that hope and change.
She's absolutely correct. These past few weeks have made Ilhan Omar my favorite congressperson by far.
She has no political awareness whatsoever. What's the play here, to get center right people angry at you and once you accomplish that get center left people angry at you too? Going after Obama after all the BS he had to put up with from not only the right but people who claimed to be democrats as well is just a huge no no. Remember folks, it was democrats and independents who demanded the public option be taken off the table.
Is she there to try and get something accomplished or just make everyone dislike her so much they don't want to work with her on anything?
Is she there to try and get something accomplished or just make everyone dislike her so much they don't want to work with her on anything?
That's because Israel and Saudi Arabia control the United States' foreign policy. Whether a democrat or republican is in the White House, one thing is always certain in every administration: you are beholden to AIPAC, Israel and Saudi.
Both things are true. Liberals were content to sit on their butts during midterms which hamstrung how much Obama could get through congress. At the same time, Obama's foreign policy and his attitude towards dealing with Republicans even prior to 2010 is entirely on him.
Obama with a solid Dem congress for 8 years = better, but still problematic.
She's not wrong, and I can't help but respect her fearlessness in saying things that aren't supposed to be said, even though they're true. Obama failed to correct the US's violent and destructive foreign policy. That's a fact.
But her choice of words is again cumbersome and unnecessarily controversial. I see the "mirage" comment and I get pissed off. If she hadn't said that part, I'd have no concern over what she said. She's going to run out of allies very quickly if she keeps doing this.
But her choice of words is again cumbersome and unnecessarily controversial. I see the "mirage" comment and I get pissed off. If she hadn't said that part, I'd have no concern over what she said. She's going to run out of allies very quickly if she keeps doing this.
it's almost as if Obama is a clear-cut example of the shittiness of the Democratic Party in how they are basically just Republicans when it comes to slaughter of civilians - except they do so with a sad face and a silver tongue.
You don't remember the first couple of years where his administration constantly wanted to appease the Republicans and never got around to doing much, if anything? Despite controlling the House and Senate and able to push through all kinds of leftist policies?
Presumably to speak the truth regardless of the consequences and make everyone deal with it.
Totally agree. I don't know what is Illhan's game here. She needs to learn how to focus on important matters and attacking a previous Democratic president who is loved by a lot isn't it. Whether you believed in him or not, liked him or not, there are better targets to go after. Jesus
This is the full article about the differences in vision between the new and old members of Democratic party:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...an-phillips-minnesota-democratic-party-225696
Plus if you're worried about unity, I'm guessing you missed the entire episode this past week where Dem leadership threw one of their own to the wolves despite objections from many within.
Are you REALLY not seeing the point she is making here? The American imperialist war machine has been committing non stop violations of international law since we basically helped put the damn thing together. Its not enough to be better than pubs on the home front while we carry out the same murders over seas as they do which results in killing innocent people, interfering with other states sovereignty, locking up and mass deporting immigrants-its an indictment at the complicity of the status quo by the dem party that if not called out for will continue happening. Shes drawing attention to institutional patterns of behavior, by using a figure others have point out has 90% support from dems to evidence this point. Its not enough to just be better than republicans.
This is the type of confrontation we should be actively rooting for from our politicians. Shes literally repudiating the status quo and pushing to be a better party. I'm also never going to be upset that someone brings our attention to victims of war crimes that have yet to see justice. Its incredibly relevant.
It's true, Republicans certainly sabotaged Obama in a lot of ways, and the losses in both chambers of Congress over his term certainly doesn't help, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the specific examples Omar brought up, such as his foreign policy where Republicans had more limited say. So it's certainly a good thing she picked the examples she did and wasn't say, blamin' Obama for not getting single-payer healthcare/a public healthcare option passed or anything that would have fallen more on Republicans than anything.
Indeed. Very interesting where unity matters and where it doesn't.
"She's not wrong, but she didn't say it how I wanted her to"
- every other person in this thread. Bunch of gutless cowards
There really is no "the base" with Democrats. Just several disparate groups that are often mired in infighting.
Goes back to the idea that a lot of these politicians see their positions as just a job, something where you go through the motions and play by the current rules and get the paycheck, and not a responsibility to the citizens.
Which, in Omar's case right now, puts her between a rock and a hard place. Does she risk her future political career by making these comments? Or does she keep mum about it until she's in a stronger position to make a change, which carries a risk in itself of getting caught up in the same mentality as others (or getting worn down by the machine) by the time she reaches that position?
Yes, because use he woke up one morning and thought "Hey, ya know what would be fun? Let's go kill some civilians!" There's a bit more nuance here than just calling him a mass murderer. This isn't Call of Duty where he gleefully called in an airstrike.
One can be critical of his role in the drone strikes, but making him out as a madman is ridiculous.
There's plenty to criticize Obama for and there's ways to do it. Implying he was faking the hopes and dreams campaign is completely unfair. She needs to do better.
Remember how so many democrats, journalists and ERA posters were big on "holding members of your own party accountable" and "having higher standards" when Omar was criticizing AIPAC a few weeks ago?
Where y'all at??
Where y'all at??
She's not wrong, but this is not helpful either? What was the context of saying this?
How well did having a bunch of young ideologue Representatives in the caucus work out for Boehner and Ryan? Again, even though she's correct, this is the sort of off-message unforced error that Trump makes all the time. When the party finally gets to stop talking about Omar and talk about the bills they want (lots of Dems came out and complained the the Omar thing this week took all the air out of their voting reform bill etc), now she says this? And turns the narrative for the rest of the week/weekend into "Dems turning on Obama, Trump was right!"
For what purpose?
How well did having a bunch of young ideologue Representatives in the caucus work out for Boehner and Ryan? Again, even though she's correct, this is the sort of off-message unforced error that Trump makes all the time. When the party finally gets to stop talking about Omar and talk about the bills they want (lots of Dems came out and complained the the Omar thing this week took all the air out of their voting reform bill etc), now she says this? And turns the narrative for the rest of the week/weekend into "Dems turning on Obama, Trump was right!"
For what purpose?
To be fair. The GOP only have to appeal to people who hate abortion, evangelicals, racists etc.
Dems have a broader base to appeal to and some of those voters get their fee fee's hurt when someone they can't relate to is on the ballot.
I'm not glossing over anything, I can criticize his drone policy or his failure to prosecute Wall Street over the financial crisis while also acknowledging the wealth of good he did on health care, climate change, net neutrality, Dreamers, Iran, etc. The only people glossing over shit in here are the ones calling him a horrible person who did nothing good for anybody. Of course, maybe I'm just a secret Republican.
This thread is proof that people don't hold the Democrats to a high enough standard simply because "eh, there are worse things"
It's a good way to make sure your party stays status quo garbage.
Dems: listen to black women, they are the base of the party!
*Ilhan says something true and necessary but doesn't comport with white liberals view of the country*
Dems: no, don't listen to her. She's fucking up 2020!
*Ilhan says something true and necessary but doesn't comport with white liberals view of the country*
Dems: no, don't listen to her. She's fucking up 2020!
I really don't care what his rationale for killing thousdands of innocent people were and the fact we need to bring it up to excuse it is telling. It isn't unique to Obama but it needs to be called for what it is. Don't be mad when people call a spade a spade. He might not have been insane, but he certainly was a war criminal.
It's not infighting or wrong to point out that the American political system is heavily flawed and that in some ways both parties do share some similarities. She never says Obama is as worse as Trump. What she's saying is that he was working in the same "broken framework" as his Republican counterparts.
She's super brave. We need voices like hers. I'm sure she's lost a lot of support already in the party, so she might as well be honest. I dont think her constituents will ever be mad her. Her seat is comfortable, IMO. I'm glad to see her use her powers for good.
Lol, you can't even engage in the topic without projecting your ego and building strawmen to victimize yourself.
"Obama did some fucked up things" is miles away from "Obama didn't do anything good"
You'll be hard pressed to find anybody ITT who has said as much
I don't know what your goal is by using a definition of war criminal that every leader of every country would fit into.
All for criticizing Obama, but "holding him accountable" He's out of office. He won't be held accountable. But people are going to look at her quote and say she equated Obama to Trump and she's going to make even more trouble for herself.
The Obama part is 2 paragraphs out of the giant article. Her perspective is basically that Dems don't know what to focus on and they should listen to their constituents.
Sure if that's what you want to take away. It can't be that America is an empire dominated by two parties that do horrible things and self undermine despite the best efforts of the democratic establishment to make you believe otherwise.
yuuuuup
a little truth is a dangerous thing when you want to existing in a quantized moral landscape where everything you do is relative to the other guy
People's reflexive questioning of the wisdom of saying this need to consider maybe not every opinion a politican holds is part of a political calculus to maintain power. Politicians only expressing things they consider safe is part of why so many of them are insufferable.
- Status