Reminder that fans initially hated Silent Hill 2 and that’s the reason for the direction Silent Hill 3 took

[Winston1]

Feels like an appropriate time to bring this back up. When Silent Hill 2 was first released, it was not the beloved horror-defining game that everyone now considers it to be. Quite the opposite, actually. It was generally seen by many to be inferior to Silent Hill 1. People now look at Gamespot's review

Silent Hill 2 is a much prettier, somewhat smarter but less-compelling game than the original.

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or Game Informer's

Instead of the brain-bending adventure with scares and gore that I had so desperately hoped for, it turned out to be a sloppy, monotonous bore that nearly put me to sleep.

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and wonder how it the world these guys completely failed to understand the masterpiece they were playing. What people don't realize is that these reviews actually reflect what the majority of the Silent Hill fandom felt about SH2 at the time, and in fact were actually more positive than what some other fans thought about 2.

From what some long-time fans on the Silent Hill: Heaven and Silent Hill: Community forums have said, a lot of fans thought Silent Hill 2 was garbage for being boring and slow and easy ( stuff like the game giving you tons of ammo and health items even when playing on hard, all of the monsters being slow as molasses) and the fact that the plot had nothing to do with the first game.

Jeremy Blaustein, who worked as the voice director and translator on the game, has also mentioned this in the past, with how the fan reception towards 2 caused the change in direction for Silent Hill 3:

I don't have my old gaming magazines, so I barely remember some of the press, but when I intereviewed Jeremy Blaustein he mentioned that Silent Hill 3 was what it was because people thought Silent Hill 2 was "too psychological." So , in response to the backlash of some people, they made Silent Hill a direct sequel to the first game, including characters related to that story, the cult, Alessa, Lisa, the whole birthing god stuff, and even blood and rust. So the devs listening to what people were saying about the games is not something that has only happened recently.

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http://alchemillahospital.net/omg-silent-hill-is-dead-and-other-fallacies/

The thing is, when SH2 came out, I will NEVER forget the fan reaction. "Why wasn't it more like SH1??" "It's too psychological"" THAT is why SH3 went in the direction IT went. Creators should not listen to their critics and fan base overly much or their creativity will be diluted until it is beige, bland and boring.

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https://tokenflipguy.tumblr.com/post/116409990840/the-thing-is-when-sh2-came-out-i-will-never

And there's also what Masahiro Ito has said how disappointing sales of SH2 led to changes with SH3.


I still find this interesting to look back on.

 

[DFG]

This is awesome. Thanks for sharing, never knew how it was perceived at the time hmm

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Silent Hill 3 was a better game.

So it was fine they changed direction.

 

[Ahti]

Interesting! I didn`t know that.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

I was 13 at the time and i freaking loved it, more than the first one

 

[Molten_]

It's kind of similar to how Majora's Mask was considered a major disappointment at the time ... now many people consider it the best game in the entire series.

I love stuff like this because it shows that a strong artistic vision can initially be offputting, but eventually recognized.

Edit: I also love this kind of stuff in other media like music ... neutral milk hotel and velvet underground come to mind.

 

[Rover]

I played SH1-4 at launch and, while I never really interacted with the "Silent Hill fandom", I did like SH2 and thought 3 was the somewhat off one. Mainly because I didn't really think SH1 needed a direct sequel.

I'm still waiting for the world to come around on SH4. That game was good, and sadly the last we'd see from the original team.

 

[HK-47]

Time makes fools of us all

 

[RestEerie]

OT but is there ever a silent hill artbook release?

 

[Winston1]

I played SH1-4 at launch and, while I never really interacted with the "Silent Hill fandom", I did like SH2 and thought 3 was the somewhat off one.

I'm still waiting for the world to come around on SH4. That game was good, and sadly the last we'd see from the original team.

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I think the world already came around on Silent Hill 4 several years ago. For a long time, it was generally seen as a disgrace to the series and a subpar effort from Team Silent. Nowadays, people usually place it alongside the first three games.

 

[Rover]

I think the world already came around on Silent Hill 4 several years ago. For a long time, it was generally seen as a disgrace to the series and a subpar effort from Team Silent. Nowadays, people usually place it alongside the first three games.

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Did it ever get a rerelease?

 

[Galactor]

It's kind of similar to how Majora's Mask was considered a major disappointment at the time ... now many people consider it the best game in the entire series.

I love stuff like this because it shows that a strong artistic vision can initially be offputting, but eventually recognized.

Edit: I also love this kind of stuff in other media like music ... neutral milk hotel and velvet underground come to mind.

Click to shrink...

I dont think majora was a dissapointment, it was not played a lot because of the expansión pack requeriment and everyone jumping ship to ps2 (but this just added to its obscurity appeal)

 

[AzureFlame]

I like 1 and 3 more, but 2 had the best story.

 

[Winston1]

Did it ever get a rerelease?

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Sort of. In 2012, it was put on the Japanese PlayStation Store as a PS2 Classic.

 

[Pororoka]

As VoidBurger (I think?) said on a podcast, Silent Hill fans never are happy:

Silent hill 1: It's a copy of Resident Evil
SH2: Who is this character? Where is Harry?
SH3: There are so much weapons! I want to feel threatened!
SH4: This is not Silent Hill! Why is there so many melee weapons?

I can't remember well what she said but it was more or less that and I agree with her.

On topic, I loved the original trilogy and I have them high on my GOAT table. They may not be perfect but the were masterclass at horror back then. Never played 4, I couldn't get a copy for PS2 back then and I'm not going to spend on one right now since I have other priorities at hand.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

Both SH2 and SH3 were freaking masterpieces.

But SH2 had the better story and OST.

 

[KosmonavtTomas]

Silent Hill 3 was a better game.

So it was fine they changed direction.

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Let me disagree with you. You can just throw away the first half of the SH3 and lose nothing. It's so hollow, all you do is just walk back home. Nearly no story, nearly no objective for character. Because of this first half feels like big needless filler.
SH2's pacing is infinitely better.

 

[Dark1x]

Mmm. I very specifically remember these reviews and disagreed with them hard back in the day. I've always loved it. I also loved 3.

 

[Dussck]

Silent Hill 2. Unmatched horror experience.

But then again I didn't play SH1, so I didn't know what I was in for.
I remember thinking of returning it when I ran around the foggy town in the beginning and didn't know where to go. Then I found a key to the apartment complex and when I entered that, the door shut, complete silence and a very dark and moody atmosphere all of a sudden. I got instant chills.

That game sucked me in like nothing had before and I even felt depressed at some point, roaming around and being 'stuck' in dirty old abandoned environments.

 

[Treasure Silvergun]

"Hated" is too strong a word here.

And the reception SH2 first got was more deserved than the unabashed praise it's been getting for the past 10+ years. I finished the game in 2014 and I'm still of the opinion that SH1 is a better game overall.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that SH2 Is part of that "mature" games batch of 2001 that left such a strong impression on that generation.

 

[Mattersnotnow]

Hmm... Didn't read reviews at the time but I gotta say I never finished SH2. I think I was somewhat bored, can't remember anything from the game.

I finished SH3 however...

 

[Rover]

"Hated" is too strong a word here.

And the reception SH2 first got was more deserved than the unabashed praise it's been getting for the past 10+ years. I finished the game in 2014 and I'm still of the opinion that SH1 is a better game overall.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that SH2 Is part of that "mature" games batch of 2001 that left such a strong impression on that generation.

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Well, SH1 has a little more going on in its story, but it's pretty hard to actually understand most of it because it's either very obtuse by design, something lost in translation, or out of some necessity to hit a certain age rating. I remember going through President Evil's story guide for SH1 at the time, lots of "ohhhhhs" to be had.

SH2's story feels smaller in scope but it's told a lot more straight (relatively), and for that reason it connects with more people.

 

[Pyro]

Never knew this, always wondered why 2 stood out in that original trilogy.

 

[JigglesBunny]

They both wound up being perfect and some of the best horror media ever made so no harm, no foul.

 

[blueredandgold]

Came straight in here against my better judgement.

I'm playing through this (OG hardware!) currently, it's definitely got the hooks in but it's slow going (due to the nature of the game itself and my lack of time to even play current games ).

Then it's onto 3....

I'll pretty much stay away cos spoilers etc but what I'm finding is it would be very YMMV but still enjoying it with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

 

[T002 Tyrant]

Remember when God Hand was trashed and now Capcom won't even cheaply port it and you either have to own the game or play the game illegally?

 

[Jegriva]

And it was then when they decided to fuck every fan of the game for eternity, not letting anyone buying it ever, if not the worst remaster of all time.

There are even dedicated OGXbox and PS2 emulation services on XBone and PS4. They have NO excuse.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

Mmm. I very specifically remember these reviews and disagreed with them hard back in the day. I've always loved it. I also loved 3.

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Same, SH2 was the first PS2 game I got. I remember reviews hating it, but the chatter online was overwhelmingly positive, which is why I picked it up. A great, great decision.

 

[Ciao]

3 is my fave, better gameplay and characters for me!

 

[XboxCowdry]

I can't remember the game getting bad reviews in the UK the biggest complaint seemed to be on the length of the game; this was in an era when some mag's were expecting FF style 80 hours epics mind.

SH2 was great but I didn't like SH3 that much but SH3 did display some of the best visuals ever seen on the PS2. It was also was one of the few times where the Pal gamer got the game 1st (usually the Pal gamer was shafted by SONY & 3rd parties back then with huge waits)

 

[Anaron]

3 is nowhere near the quality of 1 & 2

 

[CliveLH]

While I love Silent Hill 2, I think I prefer SH3 for all the callbacks and the connections with Silent Hill 1 lore. I nver really found Silent Hill 2 as frightening as SH1+3.

 

[Abdulrahman]

Many fans don't know that most of the core team that made the first SH have left afer making it... super odd to say the least, giving that it was a major success.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I love both so no complaints for me. I like how different they are.

 

[D.Lo]

Okay, but that's kind of the point too, why make it 'Silent Hill' if it was so different and contradicted the first game

Spoiler

No tortured Alessa = no evil Silent Hill

And the reception SH2 first got was more deserved than the unabashed praise it's been getting for the past 10+ years. I finished the game in 2014 and I'm still of the opinion that SH1 is a better game overall.

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Agreed, SH1 is a pulp horror classic.

 

[Deleted member 29237]

Remember when God Hand was trashed and now Capcom won't even cheaply port it and you either have to own the game or play the game illegally?

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It got a digital release on PS3 as a PS2 classic.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Let me disagree with you. You can just throw away the first half of the SH3 and lose nothing. It's so hollow, all you do is just walk back home. Nearly no story, nearly no objective for character. Because of this first half feels like big needless filler.
SH2's pacing is infinitely better.

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Sure, if we wanna talk story, then Silent Hill 2 is much better.

I found the moment to moment gameplay in Silent Hill 3 far superior though. The atmosphere, exploration, and generally how you interact with enemies was more engaging. And the most important part is how effective the horror is in that game. I was in legit terror making my way through the haunting locals in that game. Making your way through that game felt like a far more daunting task compared to SH2, and that made the small moments of relief sweeter and far more emotionally powerful. I definitely disagree on the first half being filler. All of that stuff was great.

 

[T002 Tyrant]

It got a digital release on PS3 as a PS2 classic.

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I need to add some thermal paste to get my PS3 working, would prefer they ported it cheaply to PS4/XBO/NSW/PS5/XSX

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

It's kind of similar to how Majora's Mask was considered a major disappointment at the time ... now many people consider it the best game in the entire series.

I love stuff like this because it shows that a strong artistic vision can initially be offputting, but eventually recognized.

Edit: I also love this kind of stuff in other media like music ... neutral milk hotel and velvet underground come to mind.

Click to shrink...

Majoras Mask is not a bad game by any means and it's interesting in the sense it's a very unique Zelda due to its dark, depressing setting, but it's flawed in many areas and it's very hard to go back to, even with the remake's qol changes.
I just think about the Goron part of the game or the great bay temple and I'm instantly not in the mood to play the game anymore. I don't think that many people consider it the best in the series, specially not now that BOTW exists. It's the only 3d Zelda I have finished just once now that I think of it.

 

[Melchiah]

I do remember, that some reviews criticized the beginning, which they thought took too long for any action to occur. As a fan of the first, I loved the slow-building beginning as it really added to the atmosphere, and increased the tension. I played both entries day one, and I definitely loved SH2 more. (EDIT: And I liked the 3rd the least, as it felt like a lowbrow entry compared to its predecessor.) So did some of the Finnish magazine reviews at the time, and the Official UK PlayStation magazine if I recall correctly. I still remember Pelaaja (Player in English) magazine's praising review, where it was said that it's a game which won't make anyone feel good. That's one of the highest compliments for a psychological horror game.

Unfortunately, the team gave more emphasis on the critique, and made SH3 the exact opposite; heavy on action right from the start, and light on story. That being said, SH3 did have better combat, and more threatening enemies (especially Insane Cancer). I just don't think combat was that crucial to the series.

I don't have my old gaming magazines, so I barely remember some of the press, but when I intereviewed Jeremy Blaustein he mentioned that Silent Hill 3 was what it was because people thought Silent Hill 2 was "too psychological." So , in response to the backlash of some people, they made Silent Hill a direct sequel to the first game, including characters related to that story, the cult, Alessa, Lisa, the whole birthing god stuff, and even blood and rust. So the devs listening to what people were saying about the games is not something that has only happened recently.

Click to shrink...

The thing is, when SH2 came out, I will NEVER forget the fan reaction. "Why wasn't it more like SH1??" "It's too psychological" THAT is why SH3 went in the direction IT went. Creators should not listen to their critics and fan base overly much or their creativity will be diluted until it is beige, bland and boring.

Click to shrink...

It's such a shame, that without the absurd backlash (too psychological?! WTF!!!) we would have gotten the 3rd entry they had originally in mind, which would have been similar to SH2, and apparently even more dark and disturbing. So, I very much agree that creators should not pay such attention to the critics.

Hell, we have a more recent example of that diluting a sequel, namely Resistance 2, when Insomniac listened to the haters over the fans of the first. The 3rd entry returned to the right track, but unfortunately it was too late for the franchise.

Instead of the brain-bending adventure with scares and gore that I had so desperately hoped for, it turned out to be a sloppy, monotonous bore that nearly put me to sleep.

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SH2 not being a brain-bending adventure makes it painfully obvious the reviewer didn't understood what (s)he was playing, and the rest of the quote makes it seem like (s)he wouldn't appreciate psychological horror movies, like Jacob's Ladder and The Nameless (both of which were an inspiration for SH2), that much either.

From what some long-time fans on the Silent Hill: Heaven and Silent Hill: Community forums have said, a lot of fans thought Silent Hill 2 was garbage for being boring and slow and easy ( stuff like the game giving you tons of ammo and health items even when playing on hard, all of the monsters being slow as molasses) and the fact that the plot had nothing to do with the first game.

Click to shrink...

My 2nd playthrough of SH2 was on hard, and the boss fights and some sequences were frustrating due to one hit kills. Especially the first fight against

Spoiler

Pyramidhead

, and the escape

Spoiler

from him when you're escorting Maria

. It definitely didn't lack in challenge, but I don't think it was that enjoyable to play on hard.

The fight against

Spoiler

Pyramidhead duo was easy on hard though, as you could just swing that huge blade of his, hitting both of them with a single swing, and timing it right prevented them from attacking.

EDIT #2: Added spoiler tags, since there are people on this thread, who are playing the game for the first time.

 

[Santar]

I never forgot that SH2 got this reception when it released so it's always been weird to me that it's sort of morphed into being regarded as a masterpiece.
Never managed to get into this series myself. The actual gameplay of the games never felt particularly good to me, even if the stories themselves always seemed very interesting. I kinda wish they were more just adventure games like point and click or adv visual novel like Ace Attorney.
Wasn't that gba game a sort of visual novel reimagening of the first game?

 

[Erebus]

Yeah, I remember that the initial reviews of the game were mediocre. Funny how things turned out and it is now considered a classic. Still in my opinion, SH2 is not a game everyone will appreciate.

 

[Winston1]

Okay, but that's kind of the point too, why make it 'Silent Hill' if it was so different and contradicted the first game

Spoiler

No tortured Alessa = no evil Silent Hill

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Honestly, Silent Hill 2 is kind of an egnima as far as sequels go, because it doesn't feel like one. It instead feels like a 'second first installment' of the series, if that makes sense. Like, imagine a world where Silent Hill 1 did not exist, the franchise started on the PS2, and Keiichiro Toyama had no involvement with the game. Silent Hill 2 feels like the game that was made in that scenario. I do like it for that though. I really do appreciate how different Silent Hill 1 and 2 are from each other. Same for Silent Hill 4.

Agreed, SH1 is a pulp horror classic.

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Hell yeah!

 

[JahIthBer]

Maybe SH2's sales were sluggish because it released next to MGS2, FFX, GTA3, GT3, Jak & Daxter, etc
Both are great games but i feel like the change in direction wasn't needed.

 

[Melchiah]

As VoidBurger (I think?) said on a podcast, Silent Hill fans never are happy:

Silent hill 1: It's a copy of Resident Evil
SH2: Who is this character? Where is Harry?
SH3: There are so much weapons! I want to feel threatened!
SH4: This is not Silent Hill! Why is there so many melee weapons?

I can't remember well what she said but it was more or less that and I agree with her.

On topic, I loved the original trilogy and I have them high on my GOAT table. They may not be perfect but the were masterclass at horror back then. Never played 4, I couldn't get a copy for PS2 back then and I'm not going to spend on one right now since I have other priorities at hand.

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Actually, SH4 wasn't originally meant to be a part of the series, but a horror game of its own. Konami wanted to release it under the Silent Hill name to increase the sales. That's probably why it feels like it doesn't quite belong to the series.

 

[Aurc]

I played SH1-4 at launch and, while I never really interacted with the "Silent Hill fandom", I did like SH2 and thought 3 was the somewhat off one. Mainly because I didn't really think SH1 needed a direct sequel.

I'm still waiting for the world to come around on SH4. That game was good, and sadly the last we'd see from the original team.

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It's my favorite one of them all, and the scariest / most disturbing Silent Hill game, don't @ me. I always knew it was popular to say SH4 was the worst, which is fine, but that's more down to gameplay (revisit each world, but this time as an escort mission) than the lore, art direction, sound design, etc. All of that stuff was still top notch, and we've not seen much like it before, or since.

 

[Rover]

Actually, SH4 wasn't originally meant to be a part of the series, but a horror game of its own. Konami wanted to release it under the Silent Hill name to increase the sales. That's probably why it feels like it doesn't quite belong to the series.

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You're right, and it does deviate from the SH formula in some ways, but when you look at everything that came after SH4, it's hard not to closely associate it with 1-3. The style is still very much there.

 

[killer7]

Silent Hill 2. Unmatched horror experience.

But then again I didn't play SH1, so I didn't know what I was in for.
I remember thinking of returning it when I ran around the foggy town in the beginning and didn't know where to go. Then I found a key to the apartment complex and when I entered that, the door shut, complete silence and a very dark and moody atmosphere all of a sudden. I got instant chills.

That game sucked me in like nothing had before and I even felt depressed at some point, roaming around and being 'stuck' in dirty old abandoned environments.

Click to shrink...

SH1 in 1999, was the best thing i ever played in my life. It was a revolution.

 

[Winston1]

My 2nd playthrough of SH2 was on hard, and the boss fights and some sequences were frustrating due to one hit kills. Especially the first fight against Pyramidhead, and the escape from him when you're escorting Maria. It definitely didn't lack in challenge, but I don't think it was that enjoyable to play on hard.

The fight against Pyramidhead duo was easy on hard though, as you could just swing that huge blade of his, hitting both of them with a single swing, and timing it right prevented them from attacking.

Click to shrink...

I honestly didn't have much trouble with the Maria/Pyramid Head chase (but then again I looked at a walkthrough video in advance so I knew I had to shoot him a few times to slow him down).
I couldn't figure out how to get the great knife to work right, so the Pyramid Head duo fight was tedious as hell for me. Run to the side of the room, quick-turn, fire the rifle, heal, run to the other side, rinse-and-repeat for 10 minutes or so.

 

[killer7]

As VoidBurger (I think?) said on a podcast, Silent Hill fans never are happy:

Silent hill 1: It's a copy of Resident Evil

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Spoiler