Remember when used games were an industry-threatening issue?

[MarioW]

Used games sales were problematic in that the likes of Gamestop would aggressively push customers towards a used version, even if they had asked for a new copy or brought one to the counter. It was especially an issue for "average" games, the type of game that would rate a 7 or so out of 10, that would end up being traded in quickly enough that new copies would stop being ordered from the publisher because Gamestop had a sustainable critical mass of used copies they could keep trading on. AAA games with multiplayer modes which extended the life of the title and lived in a gamers collection for a lot longer were less impacted.

In aggregate, trade ins get cash or credit back into the hands of consumers to buy more games overall, but if you model it out for titles individually (at least based on my own analysis) there have certainly been games negatively impacted. Spend gravitates to the top tier titles over time, and away from the marginal titles.

In general, in response, used games have been one of the things that helped drive the uptake of things like DLC, microtransactions, and the bolting on of multiplayer modes to single player games. There were those one off registration coupon thingies at one point too?

Used games are an inevitability publishers gave up fighting outright, but with DLC and microtransactions pretty entrenched, and sales increasingly moving physical to digital, the impact of used games at retail is much less. Arguably, getting any copy, used or not, into the hands of a fresh consumer these days is a bonus for a publisher if they have a decent chance they can make some DLC sales out of it.

 

[MBABuddha]

We all win as long as we keep the option to buy it physical.

Click to shrink...

That'll last about 3-5 more years. The games industry learned its better to incentive consumers to move away from used games and physical releases (DLC, digital-only releases, battle passes, etc.) than to treat them as criminals like the record industry did with file-sharing. I bet by the peak of this next generation physical games will still exist but will be so much of a hassle to get up and running most people will just opt to download.

 

[oni-link]

What in the world are you talking about here? None of this is true. I only buy physical and I don't gotta download anything to play the full game. And I've never had to download a patch to finish a PS4 game. Ever. The game has been complete on disc every time I've ever bought one and 20 years down the road I would still be able to play it.

Click to shrink...

Yeah the game is playable on the disc, but you must realise patches improve the game a ton, and a lot of the post game DLC doesn't come on the disc, so if the servers were to shut down, your disc won't give you the full, or best, experience of that game

in 2035, Someone who backed up all their digital PS4 games will be able to emulate them on a PS4 emulator and play the full patched games with the DLC (assuming they owned it) whereas people ripping their discs will be emulating the bare bones unpatched versions

 

[MarcelRguez]

Yeah the game is playable on the disc, but you must realise patches improve the game a ton, and a lot of the post game DLC doesn't come on the disc, so if the servers were to shut down, your disc won't give you the full, or best, experience of that game

in 2035, Someone who backed up all their digital PS4 games will be able to emulate them on a PS4 emulator and play the full patched games with the DLC (assuming they owned it) whereas people ripping their discs will be emulating the bare bones unpatched versions

Click to shrink...

I don't understand this premise at all.

I'll give you paid DLC and the like, since that bleeds into a different conversation altogether, but who in the world is purchasing physical games, but refusing to download any patches or free DLC? If those people exist, they're not representative of the people who prefer to buy physical out of conveniece, price, etc., and there's nothing stopping these people from ripping the update data from their console either.

 

[Voytek]

Yeah the game is playable on the disc, but you must realise patches improve the game a ton, and a lot of the post game DLC doesn't come on the disc, so if the servers were to shut down, your disc won't give you the full, or best, experience of that game

in 2035, Someone who backed up all their digital PS4 games will be able to emulate them on a PS4 emulator and play the full patched games with the DLC (assuming they owned it) whereas people ripping their discs will be emulating the bare bones unpatched versions

Click to shrink...

Improve but not necessary. I was alive before console games got patches. Do you think those games shipped bug free? Of course not. But they are still by and large playable and enjoyable much like most unpatched PS4 games are. DLC is optional stuff that comes out later. I don't consider that to be apart of the original game nor do I feel that I'm entitled to it with my 60 dollar purchase.

And this 2035 argument is not a good one. If we are talking emulators and stuff in the year 2035 a person who ripped their disc would absolutely be able to find patches for those games to download off the internet. You can already find patches for current games to download on the internet and it's only 2020.

 

[oni-link]

I don't understand this premise at all.

I'll give you paid DLC and the like, since that bleeds into a different conversation altogether, but who in the world is purchasing physical games, but refusing to download any patches or free DLC? If those people exist, they're not representative of the people who prefer to buy physical out of conveniece, price, etc., and there's nothing stopping these people from ripping the update data from their console either.

Click to shrink...

I'm talking about people who want to emulate their old games in 20 years time. If your PS4 dies, you might still have discs, or a back up of digital downloads on a HD. In that situation, the back up would have the DLC and patches, whereas the disc doesn't. You could also have both, but if you have both, the disc wouldn't be much use as you'd just use the superior backed up digital downloads instead

Improve but not necessary. I was alive before console games got patches. Do you think those games shipped bug free? Of course not. But they are still by and large playable and enjoyable much like most unpatched PS4 games are. DLC is optional stuff that comes out later. I don't consider that to be apart of the original game nor do I feel that I'm entitled to it with my 60 dollar purchase.

And this 2035 argument is not a good one. If we are talking emulators and stuff in the year 2035 a person who ripped their disc would absolutely be able to find patches for those games to download off the internet. You can already find patches for current games to download on the internet and it's only 2020.

Click to shrink...

PS2 games are not as complex as PS4 games, and also have fun playing something like Unity pre patch, your other option is just find a patch, so piracy?

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

The rise of digital and microtransactions solved the issue for them.

Even if you buy a used physical copy, the publisher can still squeeze you for every dime you can give via microtransactions; you fucking whale!!

 

[Calverz]

Even Sony hated it.

I think a few of their games had passes, no? Resistance 3 maybe?

Click to shrink...

Yes they did. My copy of resistence 3 and one of the uncharted games had it. Pretty sure motorstorm apocalypse had it at launch too

 

[Voytek]

PS2 games are not as complex as PS4 games, and also have fun playing something like Unity pre patch, your other option is just find a patch, so piracy?

Click to shrink...

I've played most stuff on PS4 unpatched and had fun so yeah? Piracy? So in a future world were the servers have been shut down and you can't download patches anymore you would consider it piracy to download a patch that does absolutely nothing if you don't own the game?

 

[MarcelRguez]

I'm talking about people who want to emulate their old games in 20 years time. If your PS4 dies, you might still have discs, or a back up of digital downloads on a HD. In that situation, the back up would have the DLC and patches, whereas the disc doesn't. You could also have both, but if you have both, the disc wouldn't be much use as you'd just use the superior backed up digital downloads instead

Click to shrink...

You weren't talking about that in your previous post, which is where the head-scratching began:

If you have PS4 discs and they shut PSN down for PS4 in 20 years, your disc is going to be borderline useless, whereas anyone who went digital only and backed all their games up on a hard drive will be able to still play the complete games, or at least emulate them

Click to shrink...

This post acts as if people who buy physical games are unable to make a backup of their PS4 hard drive, for whatever reason. You will be able to play those files on a PS4 just the same, it doesn't matter if the updates and DLC are separate files or not.

I should also say: the moment you introduce emulators in the conversation, the most convenient thing is always going to be to download a pirated copy of the game, every time. If convenience is king, why bother with backups at all, when by 2035 most of the PS4 library will be widely available for general use and no one will bat an eye if you go down that route?

 

[oni-link]

I've played most stuff on PS4 unpatched and had fun so yeah? Piracy? So in a future world were the servers have been shut down and you can't download patches anymore you would consider it piracy to download a patch that does absolutely nothing if you don't own the game?

Click to shrink...

Piracy laws rarely make sense, but if you can't download another copy of a game you already own from a third party, then you probably can't download patches for games you already own from 3rd party sources either. I'm not informed enough to be able to comment on this though, so maybe someone else can chip in

I'm not denying you're not having fun, or doing anything wrong by the way. It's just the advantages of the disc copy is pretty much down to "you can resell it and/or lend it to a friend"

Digital is better for everything else, and will be better in the future too

If your having to rely on someone hosting a patch of a 20 year old game on a dodgy site in order to have the best version of a game, then how much of a benefit was having the disc over a digital version?

 

[TheGhost]

I haven't purchased a used game in 9 years

 

[oni-link]

You weren't talking about that in your previous post, which is where the head-scratching began:



This post acts as if people who buy physical games are unable to make a backup of their PS4 hard drive, for whatever reason. You will be able to play those files on a PS4 just the same, it doesn't matter if the updates and DLC are separate files or not.

I should also say: the moment you introduce emulators in the conversation, the most convenient thing is always going to download a pirated copy of the game, every time. If convenience is king, why bother with backups at all, when by 2035 most of the PS4 library will be widely available for general use and no one will bat an eye if you go down that route?

Click to shrink...

I was, you just came in half way through the convo and didn't read back before chipping in

Yeah, you can own both, but if you can own both, or just the digital version, where was the convenience of the disc?

If your next argument is a pro piracy stance then I don't know what to tell you

I'm talking about backing up your legally owned digital games so they can be played in the future, if you want to opt for buying on disc and pirating later when that backfires then by all means, you do you, but that's against the terms of service for this forum

 

[Decarb]

I think the issue was stores like Gamestop selling used games back at very high mark-up without any kickback to the publishers. If you commercialize it they will come knocking for their share. Just look at GF Now.

 

[Bjones]

Remember when micro transactions were not a thing ?

 

[MarcelRguez]

I was, you just came in half way through the convo and didn't read back before chipping in

Yeah, you can own both, but if you can own both, or just the digital version, where was the convenience of the disc?

If your next argument is a pro piracy stance then I don't know what to tell you

I'm talking about backing up your legally owned digital games so they can be played in the future, if you want to opt for buying on disc and pirating later when that backfires then by all means, you do you, but that's against the terms of service for this forum

Click to shrink...

I'll point it out again, in bold:

If you have PS4 discs and they shut PSN down for PS4 in 20 years, your disc is going to be borderline useless, whereas anyone who went digital only and backed all their games up on a hard drive will be able to still play the complete games, or at least emulate them

Click to shrink...

"Or at least" means that, whatever you were talking about here before that point, it wasn't emulators. As far as the original hardware goes, there's no difference in installing a fully updated digital copy of the game or a disc rip + the update as a separate file, it plays both just the same.

That aside, the advantages of physical discs, besides what you have already listed, are pretty obvious: you already have a form of media from which you can back up a game. A PS4 hard drive is a thing, singular, that contains all your games. Assuming PSN is gone, your games are gone the moment it fails, which is why you'd need to back it up in order to prevent that from happening.

Disc are invidivual backups by themselves. From a preservation standpoint, and considering you have to install the games anyway, a disc functions as a backup already that you can store without much hassle, and without having to juggle files several dozens of gigs in size. Less potential failure points = better preservation.

Also, just for fun: according to this, under US law, you might not be able to use a backup copy of your game for recreational purposes, just archival, so emulation might be just as ilegal as downloading the update from the internet, or the game outright ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Aether]

Well...they added in game purchases/microtransactions, GaaS, hundredsa ouf hour games instead of focused single player games (the early trade ins were the worst for publishers), and since people have gone more digital they get a bigger cut per sale, while being shure that people cant just sell the bought game...so...yeah, why is this confusing? they just did not want to WAIT till we get here, they wanted it back then.

 

[Ozzie666]

Now the issue, at least in my neck of the woods, is Digital purchases are usually $99 for the base standard edition. Meanwhile, physical editions can range from $69 to $79. My understanding is that the higher price digitally is to appease store shops to stay in business and sell consoles. Maybe I am misinformed. But I would think a digital purchase should be the same price or cheaper. Something is wrong here, this is why I fear a more digital future. Until prices are lowered.

Obviously physical is still nice to trade in a game for whatever value it has. So until they lower digital prices, people will still trade in games resulting in used games sales. The big companies are right back where they are.

 

[oni-link]

I'll point it out again, in bold:



"Or at least" means that, whatever you were talking about here before that point, it wasn't emulators. As far as the original hardware goes, there's no difference in installing a fully updated digital copy of the game or a disc rip + the update as a separate file, it plays both just the same.

That aside, the advantages of physical discs, besides what you have already listed, are pretty obvious: you already have a form of media from which you can back up a game. A PS4 hard drive is a thing, singular, that contains all your games. Assuming PSN is gone, your games are gone the moment it fails, which is why you'd need to back it up in order to prevent that from happening.

Disc are invidivual backups by themselves. From a preservation standpoint, and considering you have to install the games anyway, a disc functions as a backup already that you can store without much hassle, and without having to juggle files several dozens of gigs in size. Less potential failure points = better preservation.

Click to shrink...

I said it back in post 53. Like I said, you didn't start from the start of the conversation:

Yeah the game is playable on the disc, but you must realise patches improve the game a ton, and a lot of the post game DLC doesn't come on the disc, so if the servers were to shut down, your disc won't give you the full, or best, experience of that game

in 2035, Someone who backed up all their digital PS4 games will be able to emulate them on a PS4 emulator and play the full patched games with the DLC (assuming they owned it) whereas people ripping their discs will be emulating the bare bones unpatched versions

Click to shrink...

So, someone who backed up all their PS4 games, onto a hard drive, would be able to emulate their fully backed up games, including DLC and patches, whereas someone who only has discs to rip, will just get the base game with no patches or DLC

Yes, you can back the disc copy up, but it will be the backed up patchless and DLCless version

Yes, you can back your digital installs up after first using the disc on a PS4, but in that situation, why was having the disc more convenient than just backing up the digital version? What bonus did the disc give you?

 

[Voytek]

If your having to rely on someone hosting a patch of a 20 year old game on a dodgy site in order to have the best version of a game, then how much of a benefit was having the disc over a digital version?

Click to shrink...

I personally wouldn't rely on it because patches aren't completely necessary to me. I guess I just don't have this need that you do to have the "best and most complete version" of the game. Long as it's playable from start to finish I'm pretty okay with it. I think the benefit of disc over digital in this case would be that there is no need to back up anything and no need for emulators. Just insert the disc into the system and you are good to go. I'm sure old PS4 systems can still be found in 2035.

 

[MarcelRguez]

I said it back in post 53. Like I said, you didn't start from the start of the conversation:



So, someone who backed up all their PS4 games, onto a hard drive, would be able to emulate their fully backed up games, including DLC and patches, whereas someone who only has discs to rip, will just get the base game with no patches or DLC

Yes, you can back the disc copy up, but it will be the backed up patchless and DLCless version

Yes, you can back your digital installs up after first using the disc on a PS4, but in that situation, why was having the disc more convenient than just backing up the digital version? What bonus did the disc give you?

Click to shrink...

And I'm quoting post 33, which I'm willing to bet you wrote before post 53.

 

[oni-link]

I personally wouldn't rely on it because patches aren't completely necessary to me. I guess I just don't have this need that you do to have the "best and most complete version" of the game. Long as it's playable from start to finish I'm pretty okay with it. I think the benefit of disc over digital in this case would be that there is no need to back up anything and no need for emulators. Just insert the disc into the system and you are good to go. I'm sure old PS4 systems can still be found in 2035.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, and that's completely fine, I'm not judging you for that, consume games however you like. All that matters is that you're having fun. I just prefer to play with fewer bugs, and performance patches installed so the games look and run a bit better

Also discs can break, so they're not iron clad. I mean, hard drives can break/fail too, but you can always make a few copies of digital back ups. You could rip and back up your disc too, but then it just makes me think if you go that far, might as well back up the complete version with the DLC/patches

 

[oni-link]

And I'm quoting post 33, which I'm willing to bet you wrote before post 53.

Click to shrink...

You are indeed correct, and I'm not a time wizard, so 33 does come before 53

What specifically are you asking me though? I feel like I've addressed everything else in subsequent posts

You can back up digital installs that started from disc, but how does that differ from backing up a digital version that started as a digital download?

The end result is the same, in that you have the game saved on a hard drive, and backed up

Only if you start from the disc you may need to mess around on an emulator to trick it into getting past the disc check

I just don't see how this is a pro disc argument.

 

[Voytek]

Yeah, and that's completely fine, I'm not judging you for that, consume games however you like. All that matters is that you're having fun.

Click to shrink...

Here we can agree. I think digital, physical and streaming should all have their place. More options to fit people's wants/needs is always a good thing.

 

[luffie]

I always felt like it wasn't a real issue, publishers just wanted to get rid of GameStop, Game etc. so they could push digital sales, and demonising used games was a convenient way to do it.

Click to shrink...

THIS. It wasn't so much as industry threatening, but used games were still generating money from new players, it's just that the publishers wasn't getting a dime out of it.

 

[MarcelRguez]

You are indeed correct, and I'm not a time wizard, so 33 does come before 53

What specifically are you asking me though? I feel like I've addressed everything else in subsequent posts

You can back up digital installs that started from disc, but how does that differ from backing up a digital version that started as a digital download?

The end result is the same, in that you have the game saved on a hard drive, and backed up

Only if you start from the disc you may need to mess around on an emulator to trick it into getting past the disc check

I just don't see how this is a pro disc argument.

Click to shrink...

You are the one who brought up emulation, not me. I've always approached this conversation from the point of view of backing the games from a PS4 to a computer in order to play them in the original hardware. From that point of view, I find it benefitial for the reasons I listed in #66. It's a better, more flexible preservation system.

 

[blaze]

Digital downloads are well on their way to replacing even new physical releases, people are now willing to pay more for a digital release compared to a physical one because it's more convenient. How people now consume media as a whole has changed significantly over the last few years, publishers may have helped that along but the industry was always going to be heading this way anyway, we'd already seen it with music and video streaming services. I find it hard to see how the larger game stores can stick around long term unless they start the process of massively downsizing their brick and mortar stores.

 

[Augemitbutter]

remember when region locking had to be done or else your local market would crash?

remember when axing printed manuals was supposed to make games cheaper?

good times.

 

[oni-link]

You are the one who brought up emulation, not me. I've always approached this conversation from the point of view of backing the games from a PS4 to a computer in order to play them in the original hardware. From that point of view, I find it benefitial for the reasons I listed in #66. It's a better, more flexible preservation system.

Click to shrink...

Ok, then let's agree to disagree

 

[Euler007]

I blame used game consumers for the F2P era.

 

[Deleted member 25721]

I haven't purchased a used game in 9 years

Click to shrink...

Same. Possibly even longer for me. I don't buy used games because it doesn't support the developer/publisher. I've been all digital for the past 5 years and don't regret it a bit.

 

[Gay Bowser]

I always felt like it wasn't a real issue, publishers just wanted to get rid of GameStop, Game etc. so they could push digital sales, and demonising used games was a convenient way to do it.

Click to shrink...

You're have it backwards. Publishers want to push digital sales to get rid of used games/GameStop. "Demonising used games" wasn't a convenient excuse to push digital, eliminating used games was the point.

Publishers don't like people playing their games without giving them money. GameStop, as a business, exists to slow-mo dive in front of a consumer trying to give a publisher money and instead try to get them to give 100% of that money to GameStop. Like, that's basically GameStop's entire business model.

I read someone say here that resellable digital licenses would be a thing if it weren't for the brick-and-mortar stores stopping it with their, um, power. I almost died laughing.

To be clear, I don't even necessarily blame the publishers here. They're basically selling IP, and IP doesn't exactly get degraded as it is "used." I wouldn't want to compete against an essentially identical product (my product) that I didn't make any money on, either. All of software is pretty much on a licensing model now; if anything games were laggards.

 

[plagiarize]

I haven't purchased a used game in 9 years

Click to shrink...

I've bought used stuff recently. My Forza Horizon disc stopped reading, and it's been delisted so I had to buy another copy and used is the only way to get that.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Was always bullshit and still is bullshit that they scapegoated all of their problems with used games.

 

[oni-link]

I haven't purchased a used game in 9 years

Click to shrink...

I only get stuff like CoD used, and that's because I only care about the campaign, and they sell so many copies they drop to £2-4 in CEX after a few years

The digital copies always stay above £15 on PSN, so it's a no brainer to get them used

 

[Jobbs]

It's mostly digital now, they won.

And even here people don't realise it.

Click to shrink...

I also won. Digital is so much more convenient and now we have regular digital sales on all platforms. That wasn't a thing 7 years ago.

 

[Gay Bowser]

Used games sales were problematic in that the likes of Gamestop would aggressively push customers towards a used version, even if they had asked for a new copy or brought one to the counter.

Click to shrink...

Yupppp.

It was especially an issue for "average" games, the type of game that would rate a 7 or so out of 10, that would end up being traded in quickly enough that new copies would stop being ordered from the publisher because Gamestop had a sustainable critical mass of used copies they could keep trading on. AAA games with multiplayer modes which extended the life of the title and lived in a gamers collection for a lot longer were less impacted.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, people talk about the death of the "mid-list game" and how studios only want to release AAA multiplayer service forever games now (and as such are releasing far fewer games), and it's like, well, the single-player mid-list title is the exact sort of title that would get screwed over the most with this feedback loop.

Good post.

 

[kinoki]

I also won. Digital is so much more convenient and now we have regular digital sales on all platforms. That wasn't a thing 7 years ago.

Click to shrink...

Like with Spotify and the end of music piracy or Steam and the end of PC piracy, it's all about giving consumers a better alternative. You can't beat piracy by making it harder to pirate, you do it by giving consumers a better option. Sure, piracy still exists but it's hardly a problem.

 

[iamandy]

But it still is. Only this time it is being treated in a more intelligent way to get around the critics.

The streaming systems that are being built for the future, not only solve the problem of the games used, but also solve another problem that is the permanent use licenses and sharing of the game code. In these systems all access control, distribution and availability are with the publishers.

When they take over the gaming world, things will work like this:

1) There are no more perpetual licenses of use: both physical and digital games will be abolished.
2) There are no more used games since there are no more games being sold.
3) The game code remains safe behind servers.
4) To play, the user will necessarily need to pay for the service.

What you understand as victory is only the beginning of the revolution. Observe the video streaming system, but without the possibility of recording the content and making it available outside the servers.

 

[FrostweaveBandage]

The death of most gaming stores helps. GameStop is not far behind.

 

[iamandy]

Like with Spotify and the end of music piracy or Steam and the end of PC piracy, it's all about giving consumers a better alternative. You can't beat piracy by making it harder to pirate, you do it by giving consumers a better option. Sure, piracy still exists but it's hardly a problem.

Click to shrink...

Game streaming services have an advantage for publishers that video and music services do not: they cannot be copied without access to the game code or files.

Passively capturing audio or video is easy. Just intercept the reproduction. This is now impossible with games running on remote servers and the end user only having access to an image and limited I / O for the controls. Without files, without compatible hardware there will be no piracy in games in the world 100% streaming.

 

[I KILL PXLS]

You're have it backwards. Publishers want to push digital sales to get rid of used games/GameStop. "Demonising used games" wasn't a convenient excuse to push digital, eliminating used games was the point.

Publishers don't like people playing their games without giving them money. GameStop, as a business, exists to slow-mo dive in front of a consumer trying to give a publisher money and instead try to get them to give 100% of that money to GameStop. Like, that's basically GameStop's entire business model.

I read someone say here that resellable digital licenses would be a thing if it weren't for the brick-and-mortar stores stopping it with their, um, power. I almost died laughing.

To be clear, I don't even necessarily blame the publishers here. They're basically selling IP, and IP doesn't exactly get degraded as it is "used." I wouldn't want to compete against an essentially identical product (my product) that I didn't make any money on, either. All of software is pretty much on a licensing model now; if anything games were laggards.

Click to shrink...

Agree with all of this.

I think we can debate on how much, but I can't imagine the used game market didn't have some kind of negative effect on sales. Was it killing the market single handedly? Probably not, but it wasn't helping it either and pushing those used games over new ones was Gamestop's entire purpose. Budgets were rising pretty dramatically at the time and games were taking longer to make with the switch to HD and the rise of AAA so it's not surprising there was concern from publishers about that lost revenue. I know there's an argument that that used game credit would go back in to the market for new games, but I'd like to see data on how much that actually happened instead of going to used versions of those games (that'd legitimately be an interesting study to see). And as mentioned, the mid-tier market likely wasn't seeing any benefit to that at all.

 

[Ernest]

I love digital games and not having to have a disc/cart to play, but they rarely go on sale like physical games do, usually due to stock overflow, but still. Way too many times, there will be a game that I can buy new on disc for $20, to say nothing of used game, but the digital is still $50 to $60.
So they got rid of their production/shipping costs AND they still get a higher yield from their digital games due to higher overall prices. Feels like I'm being scammed now.

 

[iamandy]

I love digital games and not having to have a disc/cart to play, but they rarely go on sale like physical games do, usually due to stock overflow, but still. Way too many times, there will be a game that I can buy new on disc for $20, to say nothing of used game, but the digital is still $50 to $60.
So they got rid of their production/shipping costs AND they still get a higher yield from their digital games due to higher overall prices. Feels like I'm being scammed now.

Click to shrink...

I think some people still haven't realized that digital media is also in the process of being obsolete by publishers. In the medium term the idea is that all types of permanent or semi-perpetual licenses are abolished and are replaced by a subscription system in which the game code is secure behind a server controlled by the publisher.

The discussion is no longer between the media format that the game will be delivered, but whether it will be delivered in general. The license format and a continuous payment barrier is the most financially interesting model for the industry. And that is what they will follow. We are experiencing a transition phase.

 

[formasymphonic]

The threat of used game trading is still on a lot of publishers minds imo. They might not refer to it explicitly like that anymore, but its the underlying reason why we got such a huge focus on GaaS this gen.

To add to that though:
- the increase in digital purchases (thus no used games),
- publisher storefronts where they can have their own digital sales or subscriptions (higher margins or recurring revenue, plus no used games),
- increasing the playtime length of games (because a lot of people seem to believe that the length of a game is its value),
- multiplayer only or MP-first focus of games (less upfront resource costs),
- lootboxes / battle pass / FOMO etc (high margins)

...probably help them to be less overtly concerned now than they were at this point last gen.

 

[nampad]

Shows again that the carrot (convenience of digital purchases and sales) works better than the stick (online passes).

Some people will always pirate stuff or similar. Others will gladly pay if they are getting a good service.

 

[infinityBCRT]

The industry was a very different place 10 years ago. Yes, digital (over the last 2 years) has eliminated any concerns about used games. But I think the big issue developers were having was transitioning to the HD era. Game costs increased dramatically, and part of it was art, but part of it was also engine costs. Early on in the 360/PS3 era a lot of devs adopted UE, but the costs to use it were astronomical back in the day. Developers weren't making any money because Epic was taking 30% of REVENUE, which would basically be the profit margin. It's what forced EA's hand to start moving to Frostbite, and a lot of other studios also started developing their own engines. Then Unity came along and completely undercut Unreal's pricing model and took the indie market and since then Epic has really been forced to price competitively.

Used games were being pointed to as a problem, but I honestly think engine costs were the real problem-- but if these game industry execs pointed it out, they'd be pointing out their own mistake of buying an engine instead of building one.

 

[NightShift]

I genuinely believe that publishers were honest when they were freaking out about used games and the reason why they stopped was because they realised how stupid they were. How having less people play their games made their user base and microtransaction numbers go down. The push back from people may have helped too since it seemed to be the Xbone reveal that broke the camel's back.

 

[fourfourfun]

So much that publishers had to invite the whole online pass fuckery in order to combat it?

That publishers were lobbying the console manufacturers to ban used games?

Remember when Microsoft actually based a major part of their console strategy on anti-used games policies in order to appeal to the publishers?

It's honestly surreal how just 7 years later and pretty much no one is complaining about used games eating into their sales anymore

Click to shrink...

They changed their games so that they encourage post-sale purchases, thereby making the game more valuable in the long term - used/discounting now just gets the game in more hands in order to bring more players into the sales pipeline.

 

[Elfgore]

Makes me feel old. I remember doing a powerpoint on the topic when I was eighteen. Guess the rise of digital got it sorted out though.