Remember when Marvel killed off Cap after Civil War?

Deleted member 42472 · Jul 17, 2019

I remember being, and still am, impressed with how they handled it from a publishing perspective

Cap Died. It was announced on talk shows and maybe even in previews. We all knew it was happening and we were all fairly grumpy such an awesome moment was spoiled.

Get the book, read through. Okay, it's a good send off for Cap. He died taking a bullet for an innocent cop. In comic book logic that is awesome.

Then you get to the final page and realize he didn't die from the sniper. He died because Sharon was mind controlled by Hydra (?) Suddenly you have great talking points (was Civil War always a Hydra scheme?) and everyone is excited for what will come next.

MCU did something similar with Winter Soldier. Going in, all the comic book fans totally knew it was Bucky and were glad to spoil everything. Some of us were even pretty sure Redford was The Red Skull. That let all of us get blindsided by "Hail Hydra" and let them sneak in a pretty good twist in an age of social media and spoilers.

HardTimesFamilyPride · Jul 17, 2019

TheAggroCraig said:
I was never into Marvel until my friends explained the entire plot of Civil War to me, I was a little bummed in a way when they didn't do something similar in the MCU Civil War when that came out.

You know I was basically in the same position as you and felt the same, but now after Endgame I appreciate the character arc they chose to give Cap. Was very fitting for that interpretation in terms of themes and arcs and payoff and etc.

Double 0 · Jul 17, 2019

Best Cap run, but yeah, Civil War sucked.

Daniel Westlake · Jul 17, 2019

Deepwater said:
Also this is as good of thread as any to proclaim this evergreen statement:

Fuck Sally Floyd

Amen to that. Looking back on it now thank God for so many all time stupid moments in contained mostly in one event.

Uzumaki Goku · Jul 17, 2019

Also, Civil War led to One More Day.

Fuck you Joe Quesada, Peter and Mary Jane are still married to me.

Nateo · Jul 17, 2019

Remember when Wolverine died.

Forearm_Star · Jul 17, 2019

I have a few variant covers of that comic. What's the going rate for that?

dabig2 · Jul 17, 2019

Deepwater said:
For the uninitiated I have to share the original page for context. Basically Sally Floyd (a reporter for the Daily Bugle) was grilling Cap about his anti-registration organization/movement and of course he's like "rah rah this isn't the america I know" and she responds with this panel asking him about nascar, myspace and american idol lol. This is right before his final confrontation with Tony that leads to his(cap's) surrender.

This whole part of the issue was really stupid. So this was a popular edit that circulated back in the day that kind of exposed the bad writing.

For those wondering this was Civil War Frontline #9

The guy that made that edit, MIghtyGodKing, re-edited the entire mainline Civil War series. And it was fantastic and I'm pretty sure I read his edits before even reading the actual series way back when (I was then, as I am now, on a multi-year break from comics).

The noughties were an interesting time...

demondance · Jul 17, 2019

tm24 said:
Civil War the confession remains one of my favorite issues of anything ever

Civil War is so strange in that it set off several great stories including some all-time greats but the series itself was so bad

Deepwater · Jul 17, 2019

demondance said:
Civil War is so strange in that it set off several great stories including some all-time greats but the series itself was so bad

because of civil war we got One More Day/Brand New Day, probably top 3 most hated comic storylines ever

Uzumaki Goku · Jul 17, 2019

Deepwater said:
because of civil war we got One More Day/Brand New Day, probably top 3 most hated comic storylines ever

I remember we got Back in Black... which oh so totally had nothing to do with the fact that the black suit was in Spider-Man 3 which was coming out at the time? No sir!

demondance · Jul 17, 2019

Deepwater said:
because of civil war we got One More Day/Brand New Day, probably top 3 most hated comic storylines ever

Was that really because of Civil War? Aunt May getting shot and the Back In Black stuff didn't need that event to happen

I recall Quesada was dead set on making that marriage go away. Dump civil War and we probably still get the same shit.

Uzumaki Goku · Jul 17, 2019

demondance said:
Was that really because of Civil War? Aunt May getting shot and the Back In Black stuff didn't need that event to happen

I recall Quesada was dead set on making that marriage go away. Dump civil War and we probably still get the same shit.

Personally, to this day, I seriously question...

What the hell does Mephisto, the Marvel equilavent to the DEVIL honestly gain out of undoing Spider-Man and Mary Jane's marriage?

Deepwater · Jul 17, 2019

demondance said:
Was that really because of Civil War? Aunt May getting shot and the Back In Black stuff didn't need that event to happen

It was really because of Joe Quesada hated the idea of Peter growing up and being an adult and needed him to be a young 23-25 year old bachelor which was the only way he could have good stories.

Peter's identity revealing in Civil War (which I presume came from Mark Millar cause he wrote the damn thing) was just a convenient horse for Joe Q to hitch his dumb ass saddle on.

Rest assured that if for some reason the events of Civil War didn't happen, the concept of BND/OMD would have eventually cause Marvel Editorial HATES peter parker.

Uzumaki Goku said:
Personally, to this day, I seriously question...

What the hell does Mephisto, the Marvel equilavent to the DEVIL honestly gain out of undoing Spider-Man and Mary Jane's marriage?

That wasn't even the worst part. The worst part is when this man goes to literally the smartest people on Earth (Tony and Reed) and they can't cure a FUCKING BULLET WOUND. Even Dr. Strange shrugged his fucking shoulders like it was out of his powers. DOCTOR FUCKING STRANGE.

Uzumaki Goku · Jul 17, 2019

Deepwater said:
It was really because of Joe Quesada hated the idea of Peter growing up and being an adult and needed him to be a young 23-25 year old bachelor which was the only way he could have good stories.

Peter's identity revealing in Civil War (which I presume came from Mark Millar cause he wrote the damn thing) was just a convenient horse for Joe Q to hitch his dumb ass saddle on.

Rest assured that if for some reason the events of Civil War didn't happen, the concept of BND/OMD would have eventually cause Marvel Editorial HATES peter parker.

That wasn't even the worst part. The worst part is when this man goes to literally the smartest people on Earth (Tony and Reed) and they can't cure a FUCKING BULLET WOUND. Even Dr. Strange shrugged his fucking shoulders like it was out of his powers. DOCTOR FUCKING STRANGE.

They don't seem to like Mary Jane either.

Daniel Westlake · Jul 17, 2019

Uzumaki Goku said:
They don't seem to like Mary Jane either.

I'm pretty sure one of the first arcs after the whole thing was called character assassination which makes it even better.
Edit: Looks like my memory is pretty off, but yeah it was a hilarious mess of a thing.

Deleted member 5359 · Jul 17, 2019

Elektra, Gwen Stacy, and Uncle Ben were supposed to stay dead, but I guess that's out the window. Nobody stays dead in comics, which is why a character's death doesn't really do much for me in terms of impact.

Uzumaki Goku · Jul 17, 2019

Deepwater said:
It was really because of Joe Quesada hated the idea of Peter growing up and being an adult and needed him to be a young 23-25 year old bachelor which was the only way he could have good stories.

Peter's identity revealing in Civil War (which I presume came from Mark Millar cause he wrote the damn thing) was just a convenient horse for Joe Q to hitch his dumb ass saddle on.

Rest assured that if for some reason the events of Civil War didn't happen, the concept of BND/OMD would have eventually cause Marvel Editorial HATES peter parker.

That wasn't even the worst part. The worst part is when this man goes to literally the smartest people on Earth (Tony and Reed) and they can't cure a FUCKING BULLET WOUND. Even Dr. Strange shrugged his fucking shoulders like it was out of his powers. DOCTOR FUCKING STRANGE.

Dr. Doom would've said. "Richards couldn't do it? Oooohh."

I remember Quesada said Peter's identity being revealed wouldn't be undone via magic retcon. When no two words are more appropriate.

Deepwater · Jul 17, 2019

Blade Runner said:
Elektra, Gwen Stacy, and Uncle Ben were supposed to stay dead, but I guess that's out the window. Nobody stays dead in comics, which is why a character's death doesn't really do much for me in terms of impact.

Uncle Ben and Thomas and Martha Wayne typically stay dead outside of elseworlds/time/dimension-traveling shenanigans.

TitanicFall · Jul 17, 2019

Cap always seemed lame so I didn't care, but to be honest I had little interest in the Avengers until the movies. I was always more of an X-Men fan.

mrmoose · Jul 17, 2019

Since this was well after the Death of Superman and the breaking of Batman's bat made all comic fans cynical of anything really changing, I don't think I even batted an eye. Bucky coming back as an assassin was way more impactful. Heck, even the way Bendis reformatted the Avengers into the New Avengers and brought luke Cage to prominence had more of an impact.

I'll also say that you can tell how good Brubaker is because he took two concepts that should have been terrible: the return of Bucky and the death of Captain America after he and iron man get into a spat; and made them not only readable, but incredible.

mrmoose · Jul 17, 2019

Deepwater said:
Uncle Ben and Thomas and Martha Wayne typically stay dead outside of elseworlds/time/dimension-traveling shenanigans.

It's because they're not superheroes and their deaths are defining moments in the lives of iconic characters. I don't think you could ever bring them back permanently, and I'm not even sure why you would try.

Even Gwen only came back as a super powered alternate universe version. Peter's parents, Jean DeWolff, Karen Page, Kyle Raynor's literally fridged girlfriend, etc. there's absolutely no reason to bring any of them back except for an elseworlds or a zombie type story. Not to say that they won't eventually do it... I mean Johns brought back Barry Allen's mom for whatever reason, something absolutely nobody was demanding.

devenger · Jul 17, 2019

I brought my comics home that day and my wife said "Did you hear Cap died?" I took the comic out of the bag and threw it across the room.

Uzumaki Goku · Jul 17, 2019

devenger said:
I brought my comics home that day and my wife said "Did you hear Cap died?" I took the comic out of the bag and threw it across the room.

How'd you know that was it?

Dalek · Jul 17, 2019

Deepwater said:
For the uninitiated I have to share the original page for context. Basically Sally Floyd (a reporter for the Daily Bugle) was grilling Cap about his anti-registration organization/movement and of course he's like "rah rah this isn't the america I know" and she responds with this panel asking him about nascar, myspace and american idol lol. This is right before his final confrontation with Tony that leads to his(cap's) surrender.

This whole part of the issue was really stupid. So this was a popular edit that circulated back in the day that kind of exposed the bad writing.

For those wondering this was Civil War Frontline #9

Wasn't there a follow up to this or an alt universe version?

SamAlbro · Jul 17, 2019

Yossarian said:
What about the Waynes?

Barry "Timefucker" Allen happened

devenger · Jul 17, 2019

Uzumaki Goku said:
How'd you know that was it?

Just your usual I knew there was something big but didnt know what.

She did the same thing with Spidey, "I thought Aunt May didnt know Peter was Spiderman?"

"She doesn't."

"Well on the last page of this comic she's looking at Peter passed out in costume in bed and holding his mask."

"Oh... well I guess she just found out? I havent read that one yet."

StarStorm · Jul 17, 2019

No way Steve would stay dead. He could have easily dodged or block that shot, but the writers was like nope,

Perfectsil · Jul 17, 2019

Nobody stays dead anyway

Calvarok · Jul 17, 2019

civil war sucked ass and i dont care that everything they did didnt matter. they basically made it so shield tech was infinitely stronger that superheroes, allowing them to actually enforce the law they wanted to, and then pivoted at the end back to literally every superhero being stronger than a government mech or whatever. it was full of cheap shortcuts and inconsistencies like that to try to get to the most shocking and ripped from the headlines panels

Yossarian · Jul 18, 2019

SamAlbro said:
Barry "Timefucker" Allen happened

Not sure that really counts.

UnpopularBlargh · Jul 18, 2019

Uzumaki Goku said:
Yeah, I mean, Brubaker bringing back Bucky. A lot of people don't remember. For the longest time, it was something that was considered unthinkable.

I know. I was just pointing out why the Waynes aren't on that list. But yeah. When both Bucky and Jason came back i did feel a bit like "should we be doing this?" like we're opening Pandora's box.

demondance said:
Civil War is so strange in that it set off several great stories including some all-time greats but the series itself was so bad

I loved JMS's run on Thor from that time. Also the issue where he met Cap's ghost doesn't really make sense in hindsight if Cap wasn't really dead.

RedHoodedOwl · Jul 18, 2019

Double 0 said:
Best Cap run, but yeah, Civil War sucked.

Civil War II was worse.

thetrin · Jul 18, 2019

Brubaker's run was legendary. I dont mind that the death didnt stick, because it was just a space to tell new interesting stories focused on Cap's side characters.

Garlador · Jul 18, 2019

RedHoodedOwl said:
Civil War II was worse.

It really is... And I wasn't a fan of the first.

It was at the exact same time as Civil War that Cosmic Marvel hit its new Renaissance with Annihilation. While all the heroes were in-fighting on earth, a ragtag group of B and C-lister heroes banded together and got it DONE.

Civil War was almost worth it for Richard Rider coming home after saving the entire universe only to have his mind blown at the petty squabble that Civil War turned out to be. Him losing it against Tony was great.

(Richard is almost always voicing my thoughts whenever I pick up a Marvel comic title...)

Remember when Marvel killed off Cap after Civil War?

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