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Remember the time Level 5 was considered the next S-E - What happened?
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck (另一个我)
- Start date
Hino forgot one of the golden rules for maintaining a brand in that you never put the cart in front of the horse, and as such, the games they were putting out eventually felt like a bullet point on a marketing slide rather than the reason why anyone would want to dive into one of their franchises in the first place when you're suddenly inundated with content for the sake of content (I wouldn't even bat an eye if we got Yokai Watch: The Flamethrower) and have zero clue as to why you should care about any of it with how much it felt immediately devalued as a potentially interesting IP. More than anything else, the constant saturation for their IPs as a result of the insistence on a multimedia strategy for all the games they put the most money into got tiring, especially when the games themselves really weren't all that in the first place.
Of course, there are other elements, like Hino's boneheaded insistence on being a key creative for all of their games and often to their detriment since he is a bad writer and has bad ideas; their laughable localization efforts that came to a whimpering end when they closed their US office that have likely ensured that their games never get localized again outside of Japan without major publisher intervention, aside from the NnK MMO where they licensed the IP out to a different company that launched today and is getting ONLY the best coverage with its thinly-veiled blockchain scamming; and the overwhelming sense that they feel that they're too good to go back to the days of working for a living with contract gigs like their Sony titles and Dragon Quest to help them through what have been some tough times for them, even as you scarcely hear anything less these days about how much more consistent they were back when they had other people overlooking them to keep them on track and keeping their bullshit to a minimum. I don't necessarily agree with the last point on one aspect, as I feel the bullshit has always been present in their games starting back with the first Dark Cloud and I don't think it got dramatically worse over time once they became their own publisher, but I think it's clear that those games hit differently with folks for whatever reason that they did, and I don't think it's a coincidence that this was back when they weren't their own boss and had people helping to guide them along making the best game they could and worrying about just that. Stop worrying about your numbers on the Yokai Watch lunchbox not meeting projections and make a game that people want to buy a fucking lunchbox for in the first place.
Of course, there are other elements, like Hino's boneheaded insistence on being a key creative for all of their games and often to their detriment since he is a bad writer and has bad ideas; their laughable localization efforts that came to a whimpering end when they closed their US office that have likely ensured that their games never get localized again outside of Japan without major publisher intervention, aside from the NnK MMO where they licensed the IP out to a different company that launched today and is getting ONLY the best coverage with its thinly-veiled blockchain scamming; and the overwhelming sense that they feel that they're too good to go back to the days of working for a living with contract gigs like their Sony titles and Dragon Quest to help them through what have been some tough times for them, even as you scarcely hear anything less these days about how much more consistent they were back when they had other people overlooking them to keep them on track and keeping their bullshit to a minimum. I don't necessarily agree with the last point on one aspect, as I feel the bullshit has always been present in their games starting back with the first Dark Cloud and I don't think it got dramatically worse over time once they became their own publisher, but I think it's clear that those games hit differently with folks for whatever reason that they did, and I don't think it's a coincidence that this was back when they weren't their own boss and had people helping to guide them along making the best game they could and worrying about just that. Stop worrying about your numbers on the Yokai Watch lunchbox not meeting projections and make a game that people want to buy a fucking lunchbox for in the first place.
Didn't they have Nintendo help them publish a ton of their games in the west and suddenly Hino decided Level-5 could do that themselves, leading to even more delays and eventually the closure of their international branch? That happened some time before the Switch was released, so it was a mix of (a ton of) arrogance, HD development only, which is more expensive time/money/people wise (they didn't have the 3DS to fall back anymore), the idea everything could be a multimedia franchise, that they could do all publishing themselves and the belief they could milk their IPs by flooding the market and not run them to the ground that way.
Had they kept their relationship with Nintendo YW4 would have already released here on Switch at least and maybe other games too, but I believe they don't release games outside Japan anymore. The company is doomed at this rate.
Had they kept their relationship with Nintendo YW4 would have already released here on Switch at least and maybe other games too, but I believe they don't release games outside Japan anymore. The company is doomed at this rate.
You are being more generous than me but I agree. They looked pretty and the non rpgs were much better, but I think their games were never good.
Sony stopped caring about Dark Cloud. They tried something with like 3 White Knight Chronicles games, but after that faltered, Sony stopped looking in Hino's direction
Too bad Hino stopped looking at Nintendo'd direction and botched their entire localization capability too, his arrogance destroyed his company.
Rogue Galaxy had the stuff to be fantastic but was ultimately a chore due to never ending copy pasted corridor dungeons. I liked a lot of stuff but I can't see myself suffering through those stupid corridors ever again.
NNK2 is their best game from those I've played. Everything about it is solid, the story is childish but world, and it has some fun systems. The towns are some of the best in the genre, the visuals are fantastic, and the gameplay is simple but fun. The game kept me engaged to the end. I hope they make another entry like it.
NNK2 is their best game from those I've played. Everything about it is solid, the story is childish but world, and it has some fun systems. The towns are some of the best in the genre, the visuals are fantastic, and the gameplay is simple but fun. The game kept me engaged to the end. I hope they make another entry like it.
The games themselves simply are not good enough. I don't think anyone looks at Inazuma Eleven or Ni no Kuni as a prime examples of the traditional Japanese RPG craft.
To be fair, making JRPG for the youngest audience is pretty difficult. Whenever Game Freak does something outside of Pokémon such as Little Town Hero, they get roasted. Even Nintendo's efforts such as Xenoblade and Fire Emblem are clearly targeted towards the otaku audience. The genre as a whole has pivoted towards a specific type of fanbase and Level-5 is constantly trying to swim against the flow.
To be fair, making JRPG for the youngest audience is pretty difficult. Whenever Game Freak does something outside of Pokémon such as Little Town Hero, they get roasted. Even Nintendo's efforts such as Xenoblade and Fire Emblem are clearly targeted towards the otaku audience. The genre as a whole has pivoted towards a specific type of fanbase and Level-5 is constantly trying to swim against the flow.
It was less a publishing issue and more that Level-5, in all their wisdom, decided they were unilaterally over traditional console development and made a huge push to transition their series over to a mobile-first mentality in the wake of YW beginning to slow down and feeling that their platforms of choice at the time (pretty much just the 3DS, with a smattering of Playstation) were simply going the way of the dinosaur and were anticipating that the mobile audience would welcome all these great IPs with open arms. They were treated with almost immediate revulsion as projects released half-assed and barely resembled their original entries that people liked, delayed endlessly to the point where Yokai Watch only just recently got a port of the original game in the past couple of years ago on mobile, or had incredible decisions like buying Comcept, having them work on a mobile game, and then having that mobile game close in less than a year, leaving Inafune with little more to do than enjoying a quiet office environment with nothing to work on. They came crawling back, but the damage to their brand was already done and they are what they are these days, with a rapidly dying mothership brand like Yokai Watch finding new and exciting ways of generating apathy, Ni no Kuni almost literally going to the highest bidder to anyone interested, and the ongoing dumpster fire of Inazuma Eleven Ares or whatever they're calling it now since they ran through two seasons of that and still couldn't release a game. I hear decent things about Megaton Musashi, but it's not like we're in any danger of anyone localizing it so we can find out together!
Far too many costly mistakes made over the years have been catching up to them so hard and then some for a while now. Really sad to see.
The poor business decisions that's undercut Layton and Ni no Kuni, the disastrous mismanagement of the attempt at multimedia franchising with Yokai Watch, and the entirety of White Knight Chronicles' existence. It stopped hurting never a long time ago. I find it morbidly funny now.
The poor business decisions that's undercut Layton and Ni no Kuni, the disastrous mismanagement of the attempt at multimedia franchising with Yokai Watch, and the entirety of White Knight Chronicles' existence. It stopped hurting never a long time ago. I find it morbidly funny now.
Revive Ushiro!
Remaster Jeanne D'Arc!
Re-release Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright!
This has been "The 3 Rs for Saving Level-5", by FinFunnels.
Remaster Jeanne D'Arc!
Re-release Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright!
This has been "The 3 Rs for Saving Level-5", by FinFunnels.
- they plan to. don't know how at this point
- is that merchandisable enough for Hino to care?
- ask Capcom
I always thought that while Level 5 did an okay job making games for other companies its own original games were largely terrible.
IMO they should have just stuck to doing contract work.
IMO they should have just stuck to doing contract work.
- For real? I had no idea!
- They could probably market merch to Fate series fans lol
- But Capcom didn't publish it. Level-5 did in Japan, Nintendo outside of Japan.
Cancelled Level 5 Horror RPG Ushiro Is Being Revived For Nintendo Switch
Originally intended for PSP
www.nintendolife.com
as for the PLvsPW, Cappy looking at L5 like
Thanks for the link!Cancelled Level 5 Horror RPG Ushiro Is Being Revived For Nintendo Switch
Originally intended for PSP
as for the PLvsPW, Cappy looking at L5 like
And lmaooo
As if today's announcement of this game's NFT integration wasn't embarrassing enough...
I guess Inafune is running things over at Level-5 huh.
I guess Inafune is running things over at Level-5 huh.
wasn't this directly what pushed them to try harder with their story in gen 7?
They did do some awesome work... Would love a Crimson Shroud sequel
They were probably a top 5-ish developer for me in the late 2000's to early 2010's. DQ8 and 9, Prof. Layton, Ni no Kuni… awesome games. Now I can't even remember the last game I bought from them. I guess Ni no Kuni 2 but it sucked
This happened:
www.polygon.com
Level-5 boss Akihiro Hino on how Wonder Flick links up consoles with smartphones
Akihiro Hino, founder of Level-5 and the main creative mine behind well-known Japanese games like Professor Layton, Inazuma Eleven and the two most recent non-online Dragon Quest titles, is not...
www.polygon.com
Yep. They bet big on mobile and lost.This happened:
Level-5 boss Akihiro Hino on how Wonder Flick links up consoles with smartphones
Akihiro Hino, founder of Level-5 and the main creative mine behind well-known Japanese games like Professor Layton, Inazuma Eleven and the two most recent non-online Dragon Quest titles, is not...
This.
Too many issues juggling the different aspects outside of Japan.
Say what?
I wouldn't count on a new Professor Layton.
The puzzle aspect was handled by Akira Tago, who passed away in 2016. That's why the puzzles in Katrielle's game were so... bad.
Unless they find someone on Tago's level, Layton has hung his hat up for good.
Hard to believe that Inazuma Eleven is STILL stuck in development hell. They even ran the first season on Disney XD.
By the time the game comes out, nobody will remember the Ares seasons. Probably why they changed the name.
The puzzle aspect was handled by Akira Tago, who passed away in 2016. That's why the puzzles in Katrielle's game were so... bad.
Unless they find someone on Tago's level, Layton has hung his hat up for good.
Hard to believe that Inazuma Eleven is STILL stuck in development hell. They even ran the first season on Disney XD.
By the time the game comes out, nobody will remember the Ares seasons. Probably why they changed the name.
IIRC, most of the effort that L5 was putting into YW was more adversely affecting the Pokemon anime than the games, since that was very much in a rut until they completely overhauled the concept with Sun & Moon to better focus on the characters and moving towards a simpler art style so they could spend more money on the animation itself for better action scenes. I seem to recall the stronger story focus in gen 7 being more of a "this is something everyone complained about in X/Y" bit of feedback than feeling like they had to match YW.
Man, the new game looks really pared back visually from Ares, huh? Like, forgetting that the simpler character models might just be an aesthetic choice, the animations looks less lively and complex now.
Nah they ran that franchise into the ground. Half the hype in Japan was because the game was a big hit and the physical watches sold out creating scarcity which drove the fervor.
Drill Dozer and HarmoKnight say, "Nah." Little Town Hero is the only non-Pokemon game they made (as far as I'm aware) that was a complete flop.
Starting with White Knight Chronicles, they seemed to clearly be struggling to make the same quality of game that they had in the PS2 era. Their releases became less consistent in quality. It feels like they were one of the many Japanese companies that struggled greatly to transition into the HD era.
I remember being pretty excited when it was announced that Matsuno had joined Level-5... only for him to bail immediately after Crimson Shroud was finished, lol.
Same. And weren't we originally supposed to get multiple movies? Not just one?
I'm sure if they put effort into it they could find someone else to do puzzles, or at least remix old ones. I miss that series.
that was only a one game deal anyway. he was never set to join L5
Well yeah, evidently so. :P But he definitely did join Level-5 back then, and nothing from the initial reveal suggested he was there for one game only. I'm sure he never had any intention of staying longer, but it's not like we would have known that at the time (at least from the way it was reported in western gaming media.)
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I still cannot comprehend how they bombed Yokai Watch franschise. That thing at one point was bigger than Pokémon in Japan.
They tried to actually make that turn 10-15 years too early and it straight up didn't work.
I played none of these games (except Layton) and even I remember the attitude whiplash with friends from stuff like Dark Cloud and Rogue Galaxy to Ni No Kuni II and beyond.
I played none of these games (except Layton) and even I remember the attitude whiplash with friends from stuff like Dark Cloud and Rogue Galaxy to Ni No Kuni II and beyond.