Remains of Black Children Killed in horrific 1985 Police Brutality Incident Used in Coursera Course

[Landy828]

I forget most people don't know about this event.

I remember reading about it in the early 2000s. It was part of my transformation out of being raised in the racist south.

Wilmington Race Riots

Tulsa

Move Bombings/Murders

Etc

 

[Jeffapp]

Wow never even heard of this. How is this never mentioned in historical event mentions for the era? This seems far worse then the Branch Davidian even and that's always discussed.

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what's kinda crazy I grew up outside of Philadelphia in the 90's and school never even talked about this. I would rank it up there with Tulsa.
the only reason I knew about was racist people always talking about how great it was that they drove tanks up board street and really showed that there was law in place and who was in charge.
it's pretty sickening

 

[MetagrossMaster]

You guys really didn't know about the MOVE bombing? Among my circle, it is pretty common knowledge. Then again, my circle are all socialists, so they probably know much more about America's true face than most people.

EDIT: For anyone who wants to know what I'm talking about, you should read this. It is a very good resource on the crimes of the USA. Many of these incidents are not taught in schools.

essays/us_atrocities.md at master · dessalines/essays

A few essays on communism. Contribute to dessalines/essays development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[Commander Quackers]

Because this country and its citizens don't give a fuck about black people.

A fucking HBO show clued people in to the Tulsa Massacre.

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a superhero show at that

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

How...

Why?!

 

[HustleBun]

Because this country and its citizens don't give a fuck about black people.

A fucking HBO show clued people in to the Tulsa Massacre.

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None of it is taught in schools. None of it.

And Trump had something passed to ensure that these teachings will only get worse.

 

[ezekial45]

Even in death, we still get used and taken advantage of. This is fucking bullshit.

 

[VariantX]

Wow never even heard of this. How is this never mentioned in historical event mentions for the era? This seems far worse then the Branch Davidian even and that's always discussed.

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Because its a combination of suppression and apathy. Horror stories like this that happen to black people get paved over like the interstate cutting through the neighborhood blackberry patch.

 

[skillzilla81]

None of it is taught in schools. None of it.

And Trump had something passed to ensure that these teachings will only get worse.

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Critical Race Theory is being attacked by Republicans, but thankfully Biden reversed course on that pretty quickly.

Myself and a lot of friends, coworkers, and colleagues were impacted by that particular fuckery. A lot of people doing talks for schools and government gigs got the jobs canceled.

I've got a student in one of my classes that challenges every single reading I assign, lol. I take solace in the fact that, even if he doesn't like it, he's got to read everything I assign or fail the class.

 

[SpaceBridge]

What? No retroactive Era cop defence force for this? Or is it too long ago and things have changed? /s

Yeah it's been a rough few days, the Floyd verdict has been throughly drowned by the shootings and the articles this week. (Not too mention ignorant comments online and here even to remind me at least that America hates black people).

I suggest anyone feeling raw please take a break from the internet and practice some self care.

 

[TheMadTitan]

We need some kind of trigger warnings for this shit.

Seriously...

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Being black in America is a trigger warning.

 

[HustleBun]

Critical Race Theory is being attacked by Republicans, but thankfully Biden reversed course on that pretty quickly.

Myself and a lot of friends, coworkers, and colleagues were impacted by that particular fuckery. A lot of people doing talks for schools and government gigs got the jobs canceled.

I've got a student in one of my classes that challenges every single reading I assign, lol. I take solace in the fact that, even if he doesn't like it, he's got to read everything I assign or fail the class.

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Really glad we have so many teachers like you. Seriously.

 

[DirtySprite3]

That's fucked up wow, just wow.

 

[Amalthea]

How isn't your first reaction not to find out the survivng relatives and to return the remains to them but instead to use them as props in a video? WTF!?

 

[manzoman96]

The biggest stain on Philadelphia's history. Disgusted every time I think about it, and now this just added one more layer.

 

[Pet]

What the fuck. Are they going to return the remains now?

I skimmed the article and saw this:

The absence of ethics, void of communication, and abdication of responsibility regarding these remains mirror the circumstances that led to the 1985 disaster. Neither the Medical Examiner's Office, the Penn Museum, or Princeton University claims stewardship of the remains. It seems no one wants these bones except their families, who have been deprived of the right to bury them for over 35 years.

Which begs the question, why don't the families have them, then?

The indifference and disrespect is just off the scale with this. Using the bones of murdered black children, especially knowing what happened to them specifically, and still having the gall to put them on display in an online teaching lecture like it's a goddamn TED talk? Good fucking God.

And it's even worse considering you just know none of the non-murdered relatives of these children consented to this at all.

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Sums up my disgust with this perfectly.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Nothing white people do surprises me. Same motherfuckers be like "Remember Ruby Ridge!".

 

[Naijaboy]

What the hell was U Penn thinking? As if the MOVE murders couldn't get any more heinous...

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

I vaguely remember seeing the story somewhere but I don't remember anything about the remains being held, WTF?

 

[Psamtik]

Wilson Goode is still alive, and the MOVE bombing comes up any time he pokes his head above water. He's said that he won't let one day define his career, but my god, it should. The situation - already escalated by the initial police response - had spiraled hopelessly out of the city's control, and instead of withdrawing, regrouping, or any of the thousand other choices they could have made, they decided to drop a fucking IED on a residential building and let it burn.

Same kind of double- and triple-down thinking that led to Waco almost a decade later, and it ought to be at least as well-known, but even growing up in the greater Philadelphia area I had to learn about it on my own, at the library.

 

[Cess007]

I remember reading about the MOVE bombing a few years ago and being shocked.

But I never expected for the remains to be keep away from their surviving families.

 

[Something Creative]

First I've heard of MOVE or the 1985 bombing.

Entered this thread thinking the Coursera course used the bones in relation to the incident, which is horrifying in itself. That they were used out of context in a forensics course.... fuck.

Gotta watch that documentary.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

What the actual fuck.

 

[Jogi]

Insane that they thought this was ok.

As for people surprised a lot haven't heard about MOVE, white-Texan conservatives have lobbied hard to whitewash history and to a terrifyingly successful degree across schools in the US.

A bit long, but some fantastic reading about that here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...e-shaped-history-all-american-children-learn/

 

[Kyuuji]

Legitimately have few words left for where America is at in a supposedly modern age around Black people and their humanity. Kids still being hunted down and murdered like animals, and what - their bones might be poked and prodded at in an online course in a few decades? There's certainly no remorse or thought in this recent example so what's going to be the bar that falls in the way of it in the future.

They might not be dropping bombs on houses anymore but they're still murdering Black people with the same disregard for their humanity now, that would have led to those decisions back then. Can't even say they're being more subtle about it since they're happy to gun down children on camera and suffocate men in the street.

Just plain evil. I feel for those of you who have to live with this surrounding you as an element of life. I can't imagine the toll it must take.

 

[Strike]

Just when you couldn't think this story could get any more appalling...fuck. Are there any surviving relatives they could give the remains to? Either way, a proper burial is the very least they could have done.

 

[Zok310]

....I screamed in my room reading this.

Our entire history here is one long horror story.

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Yup, the big picture is pretty much just like a damn horror show.

 

[VAD]

this entire thread is a huge ball of what the fuck as someone who had not heard of the MOVE bombing

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I audibly said what the fuck when I read about this. Acab forever.

 

[ChrisP8Three]

I'm not American so maybe that's it as I've never heard of the police terrorist attack on civilians! I mean god freaking damn thats a real thing? fat donut eating pig dropping bombs from a helicopter and then physically preventing fire/rescue and cooking men women and children alive?
And then a university parades the bones around?
Just when i think i can't be more shocked at the depravity of America, i am

 

[darkwing]

this is just crazy, never heard of it until now

 

[Humidex]

Disgusting. And yet, perfectly within form as to how minority communities have been treated in the States.

The Github link is terrific, bookmarked.

 

[Royalan]

this is just crazy, never heard of it until now

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Oh yeah.

In 1985, Philadelphia PD did this to a city block in a Black neighborhood, because they were looking for one person.

I guess they just had no other options.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

Can we please can the use of the term "minority" in this thread? This is specifically about a historical traumatic event in a long line of traumatic oppression specific to black people in the US.

It's OK to frame discussion specific to one minority group in that fashion, and it shouldn't at all be seen as disrespectful or dismissive.

 

[TheHunter]

We have...a lot of this morbid shit to answer for.

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

I've never heard of any of this and now I'm sick to my stomach reading through the OP and the additional info people posted. Like what the actual FUCK.

Another story for the reason Black lives matter.

 

[SunKing]

...how in the hell have I never heard of ANY of this until now???

Sickening. And no one planned in that bombing has faced any repercussions. Not a one.

 

[Mr. Bad Example]

The idea that they then gave the guy who did this a statue in the middle of town is insane.

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They removed it last year, but...yeah.

Incidentally, on a completely unrelated note, did you know that tomato juice can cause irreversible corrosion in bronze, and you shouldn't throw tomatoes at statues made of it? Crazy. Anyway, back to the thread.

 

[Sander VF]

The idea that they then gave the guy who did this a statue in the middle of town is insane.

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What the actual fuck?

 

[Tavernade]

It's insane I didn't know about this. I think I've heard of MOVE before but without context. Added the documentary to my watchlist, it's streaming on Kanopy (free with library card) in the US it looks like.

It's OK, Penn U seems to be having issues with those, too.

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What purpose would keeping all those skulls have anyways? Like, that's a LOT of skulls, all from the not too distant past. Even if they use them as teaching tools they wouldn't need nearly all of them (and presumably fake skulls or donated skulls could be used instead).

 

[TalonJH]

I never even thought what happened to the remains. You just expect basic decency when dealing with bodies but it shouldn't surprise me.

Because this country and its citizens don't give a fuck about black people.

A fucking HBO show clued people in to the Tulsa Massacre.

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and people thought it was an alternate reality. What a week that was hearing people realize it actually happened.

 

[Komarkaze]

I had never heard about the MOVE bombing until last night when I watched this week's episode of The Rookie. John Nolan's professor is being harassed by white supremacists, especially after she gets doxxed, but she won't let herself be intimidated by them. She revealed to Nolan that she was 10 when her home was attacked in Philly during the MOVE bombing.

The timing of that episode and this news is crazy. UPenn needs to return the remains to the families and apologize.

 

[Sabercrusader]

You know, having not heard of the MOVE bombings until just now, and now of course this disgusting news.

Is there a specific book or somewhere I can go to read about events like this, the Tulsa massacre, etc? At least a listing of events so could wiki them? None of this was ever taught in history classes (Granted I grew up in a rural area so of all places it wouldn't be there). Clearly there's a history here that has been kept out of the spotlight (unfortunately, not surprising).

Very sorry if it's been mentioned multiple times or not, I just want to learn more because as I learn more and more about these types of events. It's a blind spot for me, and I'd like to correct it to get a better understanding of the type of heinous shit that's happened beyond the obvious Jim Crow era and such.

 

[Mahonay]

Fucking ghouls.

 

[Gwenpoolshark]

I wish this title was hyperbole.

in 1985 a small black separatist movement had a standoff with police in Philly. As opposed to negotiating, etc...they did something unheard of on US soil; they used a police helicopter to bomb the building they were in. They blocked firefighters from stopping the blaze until they were sure the compound completely burned down and as a result six adults and five kids were killed along with destroying 65 buildings completely annihilating a neigbhorhood.

1985 MOVE bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

At the time some of the remains of the children were given to the Forensics dept. at the Univesity of Penn to 'double check' which of the children the specific remains belonged to. They sat in a box on campus for decades (wtf?) until the technology caught up to do it properly; a few years ago they finally figured out which remains belonged to who. But as opposed to giving them a proper burial, they kind of shrugged their shoulders and well..

Remains of children killed in MOVE bombing sat in a box at Penn Museum for decades

Where are they now, and who is responsible for them? No one seems to know.

billypenn.com

Keep in mind these aren't like, ancient bones; if the kids lived they would have been in their 40's right now.

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The photo of the forensics dept people just playing around with these bones is radiating straight up eugenic/phrenogical vibes. The cold detachment of the academic world's approach to human misery. Reminds me of

 

[Lifendz]

I mean, this country doesn't really value us when we're alive so it's to be expected we'd be treated this way in death. Still....wtf.

 

[Tavernade]

You know, having not heard of the MOVE bombings until just now, and now of course this disgusting news.

Is there a specific book or somewhere I can go to read about events like this, the Tulsa massacre, etc? At least a listing of events so could wiki them? None of this was ever taught in history classes (Granted I grew up in a rural area so of all places it wouldn't be there). Clearly there's a history here that has been kept out of the spotlight (unfortunately, not surprising).

Very sorry if it's been mentioned multiple times or not, I just want to learn more because as I learn more and more about these types of events. It's a blind spot for me, and I'd like to correct it to get a better understanding of the type of heinous shit that's happened beyond the obvious Jim Crow era and such.

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Here's some Wiki lists to get started:

Mass racial violence in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

List of incidents of civil unrest in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Most good Wiki pages will have book sources at the bottom too, so you can then read those and then look at their sources to find even more stuff. It's how I used to find research stuff for college.

If you want documentaries I watched the "Let The Fire Burn" documentary about MOVE earlier this morning and it was incredibly well done. Kanopy is free streaming with most library cards and they have a LOT of documentaries about these sorts of things. There was another one called "Banished" it recommended me when I was done about the overall history of these sorts of events but I haven't watched it yet.

 

[Budi]

What the fuck. First time for me hearing about the bombing too, it's definitely also what the fuck. I just keep learning more bad shit about the US every day it seems.

Edit: Thanks to everyone sharing sources for the bombing.

 

[tapedeck]

I'm not sure the phrase 'what the fuck' has ever been more appropriate.

 

[CoolOff]

The Coursera description is truly something.

This week introduces the field of forensic anthropology with a case study of the bombing of the MOVE community. Many human remains were burned and thus "personhood" was lost. This is more than just a forensic anthropology case study. There were very serious issues of social and political consequences of the events that led up to the assault on the Philadelphia neighborhood and their outcome in a confrontation with law enforcement agencies.

Click to shrink...

 

[Sabercrusader]

Here's some Wiki lists to get started:

Mass racial violence in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

List of incidents of civil unrest in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Most good Wiki pages will have book sources at the bottom too, so you can then read those and then look at their sources to find even more stuff. It's how I used to find research stuff for college.

If you want documentaries I watched the "Let The Fire Burn" documentary about MOVE earlier this morning and it was incredibly well done. Kanopy is free streaming with most library cards and they have a LOT of documentaries about these sorts of things. There was another one called "Banished" it recommended me when I was done about the overall history of these sorts of events but I haven't watched it yet.

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Thank you so much! I will make use of those links and suggestions.