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REgals [Women of Era] |OT| Episode I: The Female Menace
- Thread starter weemadarthur
- Start date
- OT
Hi Ladies!
Just a question for the general female RPG audience- do you guys get annoyed when a majority of the women in RPGs get referred to as "waifus", and the following, horndog dialogue that often ensues, typically by straight men.
I'm a gay male myself and I love talking about gender in media, especially in regards to female representation, and RPGs are usually my fav genre. I find it really grating when cool women like Lucina or Lyn from the FE series get treated like this. Half the commentary in fandoms is about their looks and the reason for their popularity is often treated as such. I find that undermines the good writing these women get and distills them into "waifus" as opposed to cool women whom can be appealing to women. Devs sometimes pander to that mindset as well and it makes things worse. I've never heard a woman's perspective about this and was wondering what some of ya'll RPG fans feel about this aspect of fandom. I hate going into a JRPG trailer that features women and have most of the comments be about "waifu wars."
Just a question for the general female RPG audience- do you guys get annoyed when a majority of the women in RPGs get referred to as "waifus", and the following, horndog dialogue that often ensues, typically by straight men.
I'm a gay male myself and I love talking about gender in media, especially in regards to female representation, and RPGs are usually my fav genre. I find it really grating when cool women like Lucina or Lyn from the FE series get treated like this. Half the commentary in fandoms is about their looks and the reason for their popularity is often treated as such. I find that undermines the good writing these women get and distills them into "waifus" as opposed to cool women whom can be appealing to women. Devs sometimes pander to that mindset as well and it makes things worse. I've never heard a woman's perspective about this and was wondering what some of ya'll RPG fans feel about this aspect of fandom. I hate going into a JRPG trailer that features women and have most of the comments be about "waifu wars."
Not sure what update you want though.
Same.
It's uh, a balancing act.
On one hand, sometimes the women characters billed by guys as "waifu's" are actually really cool characters who happen to be girls.
On the other, you have situations where the creators probably didn't put too much care into the female audiences thoughts on the character deliberately made them a waifu.
So it's not always 1:1.
Like, how's your training and everything?
As a woman who's favorite genre of video game is probably JRPG's the above is a large reason why I don't really tend to engage in communities for said games or avoid comment sections for articles about them as in my experience it's nothing but a bunch of men arguing over "Waifu wars" bleh... Has also lead to a rapid decrease in my interest for anime and many jrpgs as a whole these past couple years too as many Japanese games seem to be heading even deeper down that hole of making overly sexualized female characters because it sells and that culture then crosses over to characters who aren't inherently sexualized becoming sexualized in some way. Long story short the answer is yes.
....ehhh
I know logically it's a reflection of a problematic culture, and so in theory I'm not a fan of the practice because I believe it perpetuates the objectification of women as accessories for men.
I could even go on and say, though this may stretch it a little, that the whole waifu is even racially problematic. Obviously the concept (wife material) isn't limited to race, but the term waifu specifically seems like, in the English speaking world, to be used mostly to describe Asian-based chicks.
But emotionally do I feel anything, even annoyance? Not really. At most I'll roll my eyes but I honestly have a hard time giving a shit about the men who say those things. In my experience anyone who uses the term wife material or waifu is just compensating for their own insecurity, and that deserves pity more than disgust. Even all the gross dudes on redpill or redpillwomen are honestly looking for a moral high horse to feel better about themselves (which they achieve by looking down on others). It's like religion.
(I've strayed from the topic. Sorry!)
Pretty much agree with this. It's not terrible in the Final Fantasy community but I always side eye guys who say they don't like Yuna in FFX-2 (who is more outspoken and confident) compared to her character in X (where she is more demure and quiet). Being a fan of Tifa Lockhart is also especially hard as a result of this.
I noticed that too but it isn't just men who call Yuna nothing but a "slut" in FFX-2. I've known a few female fans who said the same thing and it's always rubbed me the wrong way because she never does anything to even remotely deserve that label besides be inspired by Rikku's fashion sense.
Really ruins talking about overwatch. they have a bunch of cool characters and its really frustrating that "waifu" comes up so much :\ (especially for mei)
Also for rpgs I really liked Makoto from persona 5 cause I feel like I could relate to a lot of her character development. that's not exactly the first thing people would mention when you bring her up
and just general even if you're not trying to have a conversation its offputting to hear the huge discrepancy of how male characters are seen compared to women characters. ofc it also just hurts that its mostly male spaces where you get to talk about games and the perspective is considerably skewed
Even then, it's just the Gunner Dress Sphere that has her in that outfit.
Side note: it really bothered me the way she runs in that game.
That's definitely true! I've talked to other female fans who didn't like it originally and have convinced them to be more open about certain things in the game. It isn't much but it's something. Speaking of Rikku, I always hated how people labeled her as stupid in X-2 as well. I honestly wouldn't mind a sequel starring her.
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Rikku is actually my favorite FFX series character. Outfit in the sequal aside I just loved her bubbly personality and she was a lot of fun to use with her battle mixes and stuff.
Thanks for all of the responses so far, REgals!
Agreed, I hate when there are genuinely awesome women whom are portrayed really well, and I get eager to talk about them but then the conversation just ends up boiling down to "she's the best waifu" or some variation of the sort, I would imagine female fans would feel even more exasperated than I :/
And yeah, unfortunately devs pander a lot to that and create female characters purely for that incentive, which often causes more alienation for the non straight male audience.
Wonderfully said, and I'm sorry to hear that. I often avoid other forums and comments sections for similar reasons, it always feels like "the boys' locker room", and again it doesn't help that some devs pander to that. It's no wonder why you hardly see women be vocal in those types of communities. I'm glad ERA is a bit better.
The persona fandom is....something. Doesn't help that the devs heavily pander to that audience, despite having pretty interesting female characters! And yeah, I agree about the perspective being considerably skewed, that's part of the reason I would only frequent gaf (now ERA, obvsly) because it was so much better than other gaming communities.
Agreed, I hate when there are genuinely awesome women whom are portrayed really well, and I get eager to talk about them but then the conversation just ends up boiling down to "she's the best waifu" or some variation of the sort, I would imagine female fans would feel even more exasperated than I :/
And yeah, unfortunately devs pander a lot to that and create female characters purely for that incentive, which often causes more alienation for the non straight male audience.
Wonderfully said, and I'm sorry to hear that. I often avoid other forums and comments sections for similar reasons, it always feels like "the boys' locker room", and again it doesn't help that some devs pander to that. It's no wonder why you hardly see women be vocal in those types of communities. I'm glad ERA is a bit better.
The persona fandom is....something. Doesn't help that the devs heavily pander to that audience, despite having pretty interesting female characters! And yeah, I agree about the perspective being considerably skewed, that's part of the reason I would only frequent gaf (now ERA, obvsly) because it was so much better than other gaming communities.
FabFitFun is having an insane add-on sale. My cart is at $380 right now, but I'm justifying it because I now have gifts for all my girlfriends, coworkers, and even my mom!
Still have to figure out what to get my husband and dad and male friends, but I'll figure that out.... eventually...
*edit: meow , in case you were interested in sub boxes.
Still have to figure out what to get my husband and dad and male friends, but I'll figure that out.... eventually...
*edit: meow , in case you were interested in sub boxes.
This thread is potentially interesting to y'all (fair warning, it's lengthy, which may explain the lack of participation...)
https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-gaming-culture-maintains-male-dominance.3641/
https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-gaming-culture-maintains-male-dominance.3641/
Haha yes. I usually roll my eyes at my male friends or any guy who refers to women in games as "waifus". I sometimes want to talk about what I like about them as a person and their strengths etc. but their opinion on them usually is summed up with "her tits are great m8". So it's usually a pointless endeavour.
I know some female characters (especially Japanese RPGs) are designed to pander to men, but it also happens with genuine female designs far too much. Overwatch is dubbed "Team Fortress 2 but with waifus" after all.
Yay, another Rikku fan! I recently played through FFX HD and she is one of the strongest fighters in the game once you start really levelling her up. I love mixing things with her. (Also, Tara Strong is awesome).
Also, I thought you ladies would get a kick out of this.
oh my gosh we're dying haha. Say what you will about Jim, but he sure knows how to be dramatic
I know making fun r/incels is shooting fish in a barrel but this was worth it.
Ohhhh, thanks for sharing! I watched the first video, can't wait to watch the rest! I love these academic approaches to gaming and gender/minority issues, we need more of them.
No, waifus are usually characters that are not very deep nor offer much of character to the player (they usually have one personality trait they are limited to), which obviously is to make it less difficult to decide for which one to settle. What does annoy me are characters that are unnecessarily reduced to their display of boobs, but this usually happens by community, not developer. As a part of the gaming community I know that there are many out there who feel the need to reduce woman to their boobs. I am able to ignore such comments.
Also most of those games (Story of Seasons, but also p3) don't offer the same variety in characters in male hubbies as waifus. I mean I get to choose between equal amount of female and male characters, but usually you have the choice between a playboy, the im too smart for you dude and some kind of workaholic. At the same time character design usually already gets you 2 excluded simply because they are not really likable designed. While all the male main character gets are at least more fully worked out personalities (for those standards) and pretty girls with different unique but likable character designs. If I could, I would go lesbian in games because the female canidates, while bad, are still better than the male.
Persona 3 psvita soullinks are a good example, you could tell it wasn't really build for you to aim for a relationship with a male npc.
I recall that some gaming side once reviewed a Visual Novel from otome (do you know those? They basically produce VN with hubbies counterparts to RPGs with waifus) and their conclusion was "Male characters are super badly written and limited in their personality, the story isn't really good either. After i decided for a husband I started to question if this game is really something woman like." — the writer was male of course. All I could think of is, that those games aren't much different from your usual rpg with love canidates of opposite gender stuff.
Thank you for explaining. This makes perfect sense.
This is where I fall as well. It certainly wouldn't hurt, this community will be more in the spotlight and it might become more active.
Short answer: YES!
It's especially distracting with games that are serious or don't focus on fanservice. You then have OTs filled with waifu wars and sharing pictures.
When I see this stuff in games and threads, I find it mostly sad and very uninviting. I also feel offended. It shows that guys are either a) completely unaware how that makes girls feel or b) they don't give a shit that these discussions are out in the open for everyone to see. I really do feel as if I'm lost and walked in a boys club by accident.
However, I DO understand that some think it's fun or harmless and it can be done more respectively. When games offer this option to both girls and guys then I can at least feel that we are not left out and we have the choice if we want to give it a try. The option needs to remain optional though and should be easy to ignore. I feel that the newer Fire Emblem games did a pretty good job of that. Also, the waifu and husbando discussions should have separate threads to make the OTs easy to navigate.
FFX-2 is great. I loved the gameplay but I remember preferring FFX. Not because of Yuna being more outspoken but because the tone & focus changed and I was not prepared for that. After completing FFX, I was expecting the story to remain serious, to see Tidus again and their relation to develop further (I'm a sucker for love stories). What ended up happening is just chasing after something and not feeling rewarded. That was in 2003-ish though. I would love to play the game again and see how I feel about it now.
It's frustrating since it ruins a lot of general discussion on female characters and personalities for certain games like Persona. If I'd like to talk about Haru for example it'd be very difficult to get genuine views on her motivations and actions and much easier to hear about how men dislike her clothes or the size of her forehead which to me is a very strange mindset to have towards such well written characters. I'd understand if it was Senran Kagura or a dating sim where "waifus" were the primary goal but it feels inconsiderate to reduce complex characters to basic sexual objects like that and then push that as a discussion point on the game.
Thanks for linking this! I love this series, but missed this one!
"Giving females access to video games was the biggest mistake of mankind." lmao This series makes me laugh not only for the presentation but for the fact that someone, somewhere actually said this stuff.
I am late to this party but no, it does not bother me. Fan service and "waifu" style characterization, either put there intentionally by the developers or added as a veneer by the fans (see: overwatch) isn't going to stop me from playing the games I want to play. I like the Atelier games, I like Dragon's Crown, I even played Omega Quintet because I really wanted a game where the party was a pop group.
If you want my completely unfiltered opinion, I found the fan service present in the games so utterly pathetic that I found it comical. And as far as online communities, I care so little about the opinion of someone that says "waifu" that its presence borders on being a useful tool to weed out people I don't wish to associate with or reply to. It isn't my job to educate or uplift them, I am not their mama.
Whew, finally found this thread. To be fair I was looking for "Girl Era" like on that other site so I didn't think about reading through the titles.
Nah it doesn't bother me. Maybe it's because I spend a lot of time in circles where people spend just as much time talking about husbandos (I play a lot of otome and HM games). I just think it's a funny term to throw around and I don't take it seriously when someone claims such and such girl is their "waifu." Most of the time I think it's pretty tongue-in-cheek.
But when people take it seriously and get into wars that does bother me, because they usually end up focusing on looks. Like the jokes about Lucina having a flat chest (this was never funny) and the brigade against Camilla in Heroes because she's a "THOT" (I hate that word). Anytime that happens I drop out of there real fast.
Nah it doesn't bother me. Maybe it's because I spend a lot of time in circles where people spend just as much time talking about husbandos (I play a lot of otome and HM games). I just think it's a funny term to throw around and I don't take it seriously when someone claims such and such girl is their "waifu." Most of the time I think it's pretty tongue-in-cheek.
But when people take it seriously and get into wars that does bother me, because they usually end up focusing on looks. Like the jokes about Lucina having a flat chest (this was never funny) and the brigade against Camilla in Heroes because she's a "THOT" (I hate that word). Anytime that happens I drop out of there real fast.
Hahaha, that was pretty great. I also learned what an incel is... can't believe I went this long without knowing what that was. Something else to roll my eyes at!
Honestly I tend to be drawn to a lot of those kinds of games, mainly due to aesthetics and choice. Like I love FE, I own a Camilla figure ffs, and Xenoblade Chronicles X is one of my favorite games, but the original release especially had some awful outfits designed for the male gaze. Dragon's Crown, Senran kagura, all those vita anime titty games; I just don't engage those communities at all. There is nothing to be had there constructive.
As much as I love Stardew Valley it does the same thing. The male characters that you can marry, for the most part, are so eh. You've got a Fabio character, a bro character, a nerd, a skater, basically no one that I want. At least Harvest Moon Tree of Tranquility had Owen. Thankfully, with Stardew Valley you can be a lesbian and that's what I'm doing on my second play through. The girls are a lot nicer and just more enjoyable to "talk' too.
Personally I hate the term waifu. It's ruined the Splatoon 2 community for me. I haven't been in a thread since shortly after launch because all it was, was Pearl vs Marina and just got so disgusting.
Thanks for the heads up! I've looked at fabfitfun in the past and generally like it, but I'm afraid of getting "big" items (like accessories or full size products) that I won't ever use. Have you had that problem?
I don't use mascara so I always toss that.
And yeah, sometimes I get full sizes I don't use. Either I give them away, or I toss it. A lot of people also sell their stuff on eBay.
I do try to use everything at least once. I feel like that way, I get to try stuff I wouldn't normally and consider it a learning experience.
Thanks again for all of the responses ladies, it's cool to see the variety of opinions here!
Well said, and yeah I definitely agree about the "boys club" thing, it's fine under certain contexts but it's annoying when it takes over most conversations regarding women in a respective series
This is exactly how I feel too, it often feels like that's what the women are distilled into and it seems like no female characters of any game can avoid this, even the ones whom aren't characterized to be seen that way primarily. I'm not saying men can't like looking at female characters that way, but it gets to such a point where that's all the conversation seems to be.
Wow, even the Splatoon fandom? :/
Oh yeah, I agree, the men are always given far less attention than the women in dating sims, they often seem to be afterthoughts :/
Well said, and yeah I definitely agree about the "boys club" thing, it's fine under certain contexts but it's annoying when it takes over most conversations regarding women in a respective series
This is exactly how I feel too, it often feels like that's what the women are distilled into and it seems like no female characters of any game can avoid this, even the ones whom aren't characterized to be seen that way primarily. I'm not saying men can't like looking at female characters that way, but it gets to such a point where that's all the conversation seems to be.
Wow, even the Splatoon fandom? :/
The term waifu itself just describes the cartoonish way japanese developers display one personality trait. That itself isn't really too bad, as its neccessary given the context of the games. (Easy decision etc.)
Even if you used it in reallife then it usually is used in a joking way. In the end it would mean a life long commitment (till NewGamePlus, I mean death) to one woman, which is not too bad?
It's what killed Splatoon 2's Splatfestivals for me. It became more about tactical voting and who'd vote for its own opinion and who for Marina instead of the topics.
I care about a lot of stupid shit really intensely, but waifu talk and waifu wars are beyond the pale. I truly don't understand the sincerity with which people will go to bat for their favourite female character - not in the face of actual literary criticism, but just to argue that she's better than other female characters. There needs to be a study on waifu obsession. Someone fund this.
Somehow I missed this. I love me some Jim content. It's the first time I hear about femoids though.
Not only that, alert doesn't always seem to work properly. I missed some of the replies here. It might have to do with how active you are in a day?
Beep boop i am femoid give me game
Tsshk tsshk zrrp Downgrading difficulty....
Story mode engaged
WARNING WARNING WARNING
Female sexualisation level: RED
Jiggle physics: Disabled
Bikini: Disabled
Makeup: Disabled
Dour 18th-century servant girl: Enabled
Dress length: Full
Hairstyle: Modest
Breast size: Average
femoid isn't a play on android. It's more like insectoid or humanoid or alienoid. The idea is that women are so alien in our thought patterns and behaviors and treatment of these men that we must not even be the same species as them.
the rabbit hole goes so deep