I know they use it in a different context, which is absolutely fine of course, but what do you mean by "different"? Do you just mean different in use (where I of course agree), or also appearance (which I'd ask you to please explain to me)?
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Recently learned about Tankies, leftist subgroup who think old communist empires are awesome.
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One of the big distinctions done by more centrist people regarding communism vs capitalism (or US vs USSR) is that Russia killed a lot of people inside their border while the US (and a lot of western countries) built themselves by exploring other regions.
I think comparing Nazis with Russia is a bit of a deflection since the Nazis did their shit in higher numbers and in way less time. This is not defending any thing in particular but that's the reason I think that specific comparation is flawed.
I think comparing Nazis with Russia is a bit of a deflection since the Nazis did their shit in higher numbers and in way less time. This is not defending any thing in particular but that's the reason I think that specific comparation is flawed.
I completely missed these guys. There is really a group for everything lol. Human beings are funny.
Tankies!
Everything you didn't want to know about the people who think communist empires are awesomenoahpinion.substack.com
Those tweets lol.
My grandpa was in a Sibirien gulag until 1951 and was a damaged person after six years there. The few details he told were crazy and brutal.
This is the same kind of wrong like people who doubting the Holocaust. Fuck everyone who is spreading this stuff.
They murdered over 20 million people and annexed many countries, as well as committing absolutely brutal repression.
The comparison is just.
The Holocaust itself caused around 5 million deaths in 4 years. Deaths that were targeted to Jewish people.
The there's also the war that lasted 6 years where more than 70 million people died.
As terrible as Stalin is 20 million in 30 years is different than 70 in 6.
even if you exclude numbers from World War 2 we are still talking about a very different timeframe.
They are both terrible regimes but I don't think are directly compared.
I mean, sure, that's why I say it was "more" about honoring rather than "just" :P Where I want to land is that the act of not-invading neutral ground wasn't the moral high ground like how we would see, the whole affair of pacts, alliances, trade deals, etc are far more complicated to just look at it in absolute moral stand points.
I would love to discuss more about the whole 1940 debacle but I feel we would just derail more the thread
You need to be careful about using Russia and USSR interchangeably.
- Pre-USSR Russia absolutely colonized and subjugated people when expanding eastwards and westwards, including near exterminating indigenous populations. The gravest example would probably be the Circassian genocide
- The USSR had something similar to the Han supremacy in China, only for Russians. Even if it's ok to deny Holodomor on this forum, other people were still specifically targeted based on their ethnicity. Look up Soviet population transfers
- Post-USSR Russia led multiple, unjust wars against its neighbors, fought the Chechen wars in a ww2 style and is still at war in Syria, often with complete disregard for human life
Nazi ideology is disgusting and evil even on paper.
Marxist communism isn't built on evil, but time and time again proves that the process to get there is going to end in death and oppression.
The Nazi version is specifically the clockwise one rotated 45 degrees
Ah yeah, the 45 degree angle is what makes the visual difference I guess, don't think I've ever seen any at that angle in Buddhist context.
In this case I meant USSR.
I don't mean to deny or diminish any of that.
My issue with the comparation with Nazi Germany is that I feel that even with all the atrocities USSR committed, Nazy Germany was a different beast. Not because it's the only regime to commit genocide or war but because they did both in such a quick and brutal fashion and built their regime based on those hateful principles.
The USSR lasted a long time and commited numerous crimes against humanity and I don't want to white wash them. They are simple different beasts as I see it.
Just hours after a pro-free market capitalist mob stormed the US Capitol building and subvert democratic rule of law here you are reviving the thread with pro-free market capitalism arguments. Bold move my friend.
"Plenty of capitalist countries handled the pandemic well" but plenty did not. And the pro-individualism under capitalism is largely to blame. Capitalism discourages collectivism and creates a culture of selfishness, where endless (and unequal!) growth takes priority directly over human lives. We've seen it this year throughout the West. And you are eager to judge communism by its worst historical examples but you are perfectly willing to talk around the largest capitalist economy in human history, in the USA, to try to justify a failing economic system.
Huh.
I'm not a tankie.
Chairman, what are some examples of successful capitalist states?
Not that it detracts from your overall point here, but the number of deaths in the Holocaust was actually quite a lot higher than this. Jewish people made up around 6 million of the 11-12 million people that were killed in the holocaust. The Nazis managed to actually be even worse than the initial numbers there
I don't understand your specific objection here. I'm saying the same thing I always have, in this thread and well before that. Capitalism is bad, communism is vastly worse.
Need receipts on your claim that I think the wealthy shouldn't be taxed.
I've been pretty consistent for years in posting that capitalism is both a) highly flawed and b) better than the alternatives so far. You're free to believe I'm an anarcho-capitalist or think it's perfect or whatever. When people get nuts I'll post against it, just like I used to argue against libertarians and the like. If you want to argue against the stuff I've posted, fine. If you want to argue against secret real positions you think I hold...well, ok, but I'm not sure what response you expect from me.
Even authoritarian regimes can fall, given enough support for that. That's how some of them got out of communism in the first place. If everyone in those countries really loved communism and wanted it back, I think it'd happen at least in some cases. It hasn't, not even close.
UBI is a pipe dream but communism isn't, and is worth pushing for? That sounds completely backwards to me.
UBI is also closer than it's ever been, has basically happened to varying degrees in a bunch of countries (either with experiments or direct cash transfers as a result of COVID), and to me it seems an incredibly weird time to say it's a pipe dream. That would have sounded more convincing a decade ago.
Every country and every time period has unique challenges and needs to account for political realities. Perhaps Singapore's specific solution is hard to implement elsewhere today. Or maybe not! But it's been done, it's worked well, and something kind of like it should be pushed more. Certainly more than a non-solution that's even more politically untenable and doesn't work!
Well, they do speak for themselves, all the time. They generally support the current style of development of China. Have you seen something to the contrary?
Or let me ask you the same question. Would you rather have a disposable income of under $1000 per year, with low inequality, or an income of, say, $16,000 per year with high inequality?
What's your preferred definition to use?
Not sure what you mean by after-effects. Financial? Political? Happy to discuss them.
I can assure you that the Democratic party also supports capitalism. It's not confined to, or even particularly prevalent, among Trump insurrectionists.
Disagree with most of your initial statements. Human lives were incredibly cheap in communist regimes, regardless of their supposed culture of selflessness.
I'm happy to judge communism by its best examples. Which ones would you like me to look at?
What positions do you differ on with tankies? Genuine question.
I have states in mind that I think are pretty successful, if not anywhere near perfect. Before I list them, I want to make sure we're talking about the same criteria. What do you think constitutes success or lack of success?