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Starlite

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
565
I mean, these are new systems. As a layman, I wouldn't be surprised at weird quirks in the architecture that could cause some unexpected setbacks. I'd bet certain new things about both systems are gonna have to be learned, and because of that some aspects of games might run better on some systems than others when in an unoptimized state. But I'd expect that sort of thing to be fixed at launch and the multiplat titles to have comparable, if not exact performance.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
If most devs aren't having trouble running their games at 4K then there is no reason why PS5 should be struggling with 1080p 60 FPS. That's a fact.
Another fact would be that we know some games i.e Dirt 5 and Destiny 2 will have 4K60 and 120 modes on both consoles.
This is a bunch of bolloks talk until shown some receipts.

Please try to understand that a game's performance is closely tied to what the developers are trying to achieve. Don't talk about bollocks if you don't understand basic things about development.
 

Darmik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
686
From what I understand Dusk Golem is basically saying that PS5 does great with exclusives but needs extra work for multiplats/ports compared to the Xbox Series X. I don't see it being a huge stretch since XSX and PC development is supposed to go hand in hand and that isn't a priority for Sony.

Even if it is true it might just be teething with new hardware and won't be a big factor long term.

Digital Foundry is going to be interesting this year.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
I'm not going to say too much, but from some murmurings I've been hearing, I'll just say I suspect this topic is going to age "interestingly" when a few more details on both platforms are revealed.

I mean this in a few more ways, but to give the broadest idea, I'll just say the Xbox X is by far more powerful than the PS5 if we're just talking raw power, multi-platform games will run better on Xbox X is something people are going to have to prepare themselves for. Add to this Microsoft are ready to lowball Sony when it comes to price. They can more easily make a sacrifice and get back profits from Game Pass than console sales than Sony can from that comparatively.

Could you elaborate more on the last part of your comment, how did you come to to that conclusion?
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
Please try to understand that a game's performance is closely tied to what the developers are trying to achieve. Don't talk about bollocks if you don't understand basic things about development.

I understand development very well, thank you and I don't need you to teach me anything. No game will struggle with 1080p unless they're going full ray tracing and pushing crazy polygon numbers, which I doubt anyone will do that. It's logic.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
From what I understand Dusk Golem is basically saying that PS5 does great with exclusives but needs extra work for multiplats/ports compared to the Xbox Series X. I don't see it being a huge stretch since XSX and PC development is supposed to go hand in hand and that isn't a priority for Sony.

Even if it is true it might just be teething with new hardware and won't be a big factor long term.

Digital Foundry is going to be interesting this year.
I can fully understand new hardware may be hard to optimize from the get go, especially since the PS5's design seems to be more "exotic" in a sense. However, Dusk is suggesting that on release XSX will still perform far superior to PS5 releases. This is an interesting claim and I would like to know more
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
If most devs aren't having trouble running their games at 4K then there is no reason why PS5 should be struggling with 1080p 60 FPS. That's a fact.
Another fact would be that we know some games i.e Dirt 5 and Destiny 2 will have 4K60 and 120 modes on both consoles.
This is a bunch of bolloks talk until shown some receipts.

and Matt either agreeing or disagreeing would be receipts for you? So one person with insider knowledge is more credible than another? This sounds like choosing your narrative to me.

lets just wait until the systems are out. It's all insider leaks at this point. What are Matts contacts, is it proven he has more concrete info over dusk?
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
Could you elaborate more on the last part of your comment, how did you come to to that conclusion?
There's something I've heard a few times now, but I don't want to say it how I've heard it as I also know both haven't cemented a price yet. Just, the way I can say it without stating something that already isn't fully in stone yet is just expect that it's very, very likely the PS5 will cost more than the Xbox X, and right now Microsoft is more interested into getting people into their ecosystem and more willing to take a loss on console sales than Sony is.
 

Bioshocker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,201
Sweden
I agree with OP, and it's weird how my feelings for the Series X has gone cold since the reveal. It was a great surprise in December. The console looks cool, it's a great piece of tech and having a new Halo (albeit a cross gen title) at launch for the first time since 2001 is huge. But. Even if their approach of keeping the two generations so close-knit together is consumer friendly, it does make my hype deflate a little.

Most games for Series X I can play on my Xbox One X. There's probably very little reason for me to buy the Series X at launch or even within the next year. Game Pass is a killer service, I've had it for three years now and seen it grow from basically a skeleton to what it is today. But I don't need a Series X for that.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
There's something I've heard a few times now, but I don't want to say it how I've heard it as I also know both haven't cemented a price yet. Just, the way I can say it without stating something that already isn't fully in stone is just expect that it's very, very likely the PS5 will cost more than the Xbox X, and right now Microsoft is more interested into getting people into their ecosystem and more willing to take a loss on console sales than Sony is.

Thank you, fun times ahead.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
I understand development very well, thank you and I don't need you to teach me anything. No game will struggle with 1080p unless they're going full ray tracing and pushing crazy polygon numbers, which I doubt anyone will do that. It's logic.

So you can say with absolute 100% certainty that no developer will target an internal resolution of 1080p and get to 4K with reconstruction in order to take advantage of the available horsepower in different ways?
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
Anyways, Dusk has responded so I'm all gucchi here and will wait for launch to see these supposed differences

I hope I didn't push the topic too far off course and I apologize if I came across as console warring to anyone. I'm merely interested in finding out more
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
So you can say with absolute 100% certainty that no developer will target an internal resolution of 1080p and get to 4K with reconstruction in order to take advantage of the available horsepower in different ways?

He's not talking about reconstruction. Read the post.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
Could you elaborate more on the last part of your comment, how did you come to to that conclusion?

Sorry but that part is really off. MS already stated, that they are not doing any profit with Gamepass (It takes YEARS before services like that post profits ). To top that off, if i recall right Sony makes more Money on MTX and DLC alone, than MS whole gaming divison. So i'm sorry, i can't see why MS can eat a loss because of Gamepass.
 

Angie

Best Avatar Thread Ever!
Member
Nov 20, 2017
39,466
Kingdom of Corona
There's something I've heard a few times now, but I don't want to say it how I've heard it as I also know both haven't cemented a price yet. Just, the way I can say it without stating something that already isn't fully in stone yet is just expect that it's very, very likely the PS5 will cost more than the Xbox X, and right now Microsoft is more interested into getting people into their ecosystem and more willing to take a loss on console sales than Sony is.
That is a really big claim, considering all we been reading is that MS is ok in not selling us a console now, as long they stay in their ecosystem. And that being the big reason for the cross gen games.

As opposite to Sony that wants to make everything to makes us buy the PS5 now, even increasing the number of PS5 available for the first year.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
They have invested a lot in buying studios and some of them are well known industry veterans with great track records.

They have successfully ruined their previous first party studios like Lionhead so we will have to see.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
There's something I've heard a few times now, but I don't want to say it how I've heard it as I also know both haven't cemented a price yet. Just, the way I can say it without stating something that already isn't fully in stone yet is just expect that it's very, very likely the PS5 will cost more than the Xbox X, and right now Microsoft is more interested into getting people into their ecosystem and more willing to take a loss on console sales than Sony is.

very exciting! This is getting interesting again.
Matt has been the most reliable person in this forum. Facts.

what are his sources, how do we know they are more trusted over dusk. I'm not saying anything outside of both are leaking info and why trust one over the other?

Matt is a master of the one liner, I love it. :)
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,849
There's something I've heard a few times now, but I don't want to say it how I've heard it as I also know both haven't cemented a price yet. Just, the way I can say it without stating something that already isn't fully in stone yet is just expect that it's very, very likely the PS5 will cost more than the Xbox X, and right now Microsoft is more interested into getting people into their ecosystem and more willing to take a loss on console sales than Sony is.
Ever considered the reason for Sony being coy with the price is not because they aren't concerned with adjusting down... but up?
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,685
I was away doing stuff until recently, but just a few friends I have in the industry working on games for both platforms and a few other insiders I know. More than one source. The basic gist of what I've heard is the PS5 is really good to work on for games exclusive to it, but in practice the specs kinda' get weird for multi-platform games. If multi-plat the usage of PS5's SSD systems does help a bit, but not to the fullest, and I've heard some dev friends talk a bit about the struggle PS5 has for 1080p games running 60fps still, while Xbox X doesn't have the same problem and can push above that even in most cases. Of course, this is a small selection of people I've talked to, there's more to it, but I hear something that's going to make this generation a bit interesting is the PS5 & Xbox X's focus in other areas are going to make multi-platform games "interesting" this generation, to the point we may actually see less of them and far more games coming to one platform or the other (plus PC), as it's actually kinda' hard to make a game optimal for both platforms due to where they're a bit differently focused.

But again, this is coming from the small pool of developers I've heard this from, there may be unique challenges to the games they're specifically making in this area and that isn't lost on me.

That said, I am going to dip on this as I just like sharing a bit of what I hear, I'm not super invested, but I knew something I could share could make this discussion a bit more interesting to where current feelings lie. I can promise you I'm not saying this based off of nothing, There's probably more on the tech side specifics I'm spacing on here/don't fully understand myself, if I'll be honest. But things will be reflective here when both consoles are out and multi-platform games are out there.
I get ps5 exclusive development are going to be able to use the ssd to the fullest in ways that Xbox might struggle with, but if you also target pc you got to take into account at best slower ssds than Xbox and more scalability overall.
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
Only because he tells you the things you want to hear. Another proven insider posts less favourably towards the PS and suddenly every word of his posts gets scrutinised. 🙄

Huh FYI Matt has been saying XSX was more powerful for a while, he also hinted at a 15% difference between both consoles. Both are right on the money.
He got so much right that it's kinda foolish to doubt what he says at this point.

very exciting! This is getting interesting again.


what are his sources, how do we know they are more trusted over dusk. I'm not saying anything outside of both are leaking info and why trust one over the other?

Matt is a master of the one liner, I love it. :)

His sources don't matter because he's realiable. That's all you need to know and that's all you'll know anyway.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
Huh FYI Matt has been saying XSX was more powerful for a while, he also hinted at a 15% difference between both consoles. Both are right on the money.
He got so much right that it's kinda foolish to doubt what he says at this point.

so what if the real world difference is more than 15%?

also, is there an easy way for me to see all of Matts comments on next Gen? I actually have no idea of what he has leaked and how on the money he has been.
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
so what if the real world difference is more than 15%?

And what if its not?

also, is there an easy way for me to see all of Matts comments on next Gen? I actually have no idea of what he has leaked and how on the money he has been.

Well if you don't know about his leaks in the first place, then you shouldn't even be questioning him.

that Matt was wrong.

He said the spec difference on paper was 15%. He's not wrong. lol
 

Shpeshal Nick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,856
Melbourne, Australia
I was away doing stuff until recently, but just a few friends I have in the industry working on games for both platforms and a few other insiders I know. More than one source. The basic gist of what I've heard is the PS5 is really good to work on for games exclusive to it, but in practice the specs kinda' get weird for multi-platform games. If multi-plat the usage of PS5's SSD systems does help a bit, but not to the fullest, and I've heard some dev friends talk a bit about the struggle PS5 has for 1080p games running 60fps still, while Xbox X doesn't have the same problem and can push above that even in most cases. Of course, this is a small selection of people I've talked to, there's more to it, but I hear something that's going to make this generation a bit interesting is the PS5 & Xbox X's focus in other areas are going to make multi-platform games "interesting" this generation, to the point we may actually see less of them and far more games coming to one platform or the other (plus PC), as it's actually kinda' hard to make a game optimal for both platforms due to where they're a bit differently focused.

But again, this is coming from the small pool of developers I've heard this from, there may be unique challenges to the games they're specifically making in this area and that isn't lost on me.

That said, I am going to dip on this as I just like sharing a bit of what I hear, I'm not super invested, but I knew something I could share could make this discussion a bit more interesting to where current feelings lie. I can promise you I'm not saying this based off of nothing, There's probably more on the tech side specifics I'm spacing on here/don't fully understand myself, if I'll be honest. But things will be reflective here when both consoles are out and multi-platform games are out there.

Checks out with Sony trying to moneyhat everything in existence to ensure Digital Foundry can't compare multiplats.
 

Conor

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
450
Sorry but that part is really off. MS already stated, that they are not doing any profit with Gamepass (It takes YEARS before services like that post profits ). To top that off, if i recall right Sony makes more Money on MTX and DLC alone, than MS whole gaming divison. So i'm sorry, i can't see why MS can eat a loss because of Gamepass.
It doesn't mean that Game Pass is making so much money that they can afford to take a hit on price. It means that they are so committed to the success of the service in the long term, that they are willing to make short term losses to acquire subscribers for the long term benefits.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
23,791
each of the 3 big platforms at least to me have shifted on their approach on how to best reach their customers. Although, comparisons to XSX and PS5 are a surety. I don't think each compares itself to each other or at least not like they used to anyway. all 3 are now trying to carve out their own way into your wallet, so the success of competing completely depends on what each platform holder values most.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
And what if its not?



Well if you don't know about his leaks in the first place, then you shouldn't even be questioning him.



He said the spec difference on paper was 15%. He's not wrong. lol

dont turn this into that, I literally asked why trust one leak over another....because it doesn't work to your narrative you have painted yourself? What you wan to believe?

i just want to know what he has leaked that is so on the money. It's you that's claiming he has been right on everything, not me.

is there a place I can see this stuff?
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
It doesn't mean that Game Pass is making so much money that they can afford to take a hit on price. It means that they are so committed to the success of the service in the long term, that they are willing to make short term losses to acquire subscribers for the long term benefits.

Since Gamepass ist everywhere with IT being in Xbox One, PC and everywhere with Xcloud there is absolutely no need to sell Series X, let alone at loss. This would absolutely contradict everything MS marketed until now.
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
I've mentioned 2022/23 in here already, but have been thinking a bit more about it, and it really could be one of the most remarkable periods for first party output that we've seen from any platform holder ever.

In around that two year period, we're likely to see:

Avowed
Fable
Hellblade 2
Forza Horizon 5
Everwild
State of Decay 3
Whatever the Initiative's cooking up.

That's a lot of big, first party titles coming in a pretty short space of time.
 

Gatsbits

Member
Oct 28, 2018
795
If they offer a most powerful machine at a lower price like Sony did for PS4 , they have a chance. Also , gamepass + Halo Infinite games and enhanced BC day1 make the system a very good deal on Day 1.
 

Conor

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
450
That is a really big claim, considering all we been reading is that MS is ok in not selling us a console now, as long they stay in their ecosystem. And that being the big reason for the cross gen games.

As opposite to Sony that wants to make everything to makes us buy the PS5 now, even increasing the number of PS5 available for the first year.
The thing is, the claim that Xbox don't care if they don't sell people a console, isn't made by Xbox or anyone in the know. It's a narrative that's mainly spread on this forum and on twitter that is completely fabricated with no basis in reality. You don't release the most powerful console and a budget entry level piece of hardware if you don't care if people buy hardware. The cross gen game stuff is simply so they don't bleed Game Pass subscribers. You can't just stop supporting 10m+ subscribers overnight. They have shown off multiple 1st party next gen exclusives, just not in the launch window.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
I wrote a long post but I don't think anyone would read this, so here is the short version:

Imo the most important thing is having good AAA exclusives, everything else is secondary. With the majority of Microsoft's first party titles being years away, and Sony buying third party exclusives, it's not looking good for Microsoft in that respect.

That's why I think Microsoft needs to buy a big game studio/publisher like Bethesda / Take 2 / CD Project Red. Not some small dev. They need to go big. If they don't do this, I fear that their market share will be even smaller than during this gen.
 

Desfrog

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,113
Of course, this is a small selection of people I've talked to, there's more to it, but I hear something that's going to make this generation a bit interesting is the PS5 & Xbox X's focus in other areas are going to make multi-platform games "interesting" this generation, to the point we may actually see less of them and far more games coming to one platform or the other (plus PC), as it's actually kinda' hard to make a game optimal for both platforms due to where they're a bit differently focused.
Project Athia's being "designed for PS5" makes more sense with this comment. I wonder if there will be issues for timed exclusives built for PS5 on Xbox Series X/S.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
UK NW
I wrote a long post but I don't think anyone would read this, so here is the short version:

Imo the most important thing is having good AAA exclusives, everything else is secondary. With the majority of Microsoft's first party titles being years away, and Sony buying third party exclusives, it's not looking good for Microsoft. That's why I think Microsoft needs to buy a big game studio/publisher like Bethesda / Take 2 / CD Project Red. Not some small dev. They need to go big. If they don't do this, I fear that their market share will be even smaller than during this gen.

Fuck no, whoever buys a publisher starts an arms race that becomes a giant consolidation of the industry that will never be reversed.
 

Windrunner

Sly
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,500
I've mentioned 2022/23 in here already, but have been thinking a bit more about it, and it really could be one of the most remarkable periods for first party output that we've seen from any platform holder ever.

In around that two year period, we're likely to see:

Avowed
Fable
Hellblade 2
Forza Horizon 5
Everwild
State of Decay 3
Whatever the Initiative's cooking up.

That's a lot of big, first party titles coming in a pretty short space of time.

I am pretty confident about the quality of Xbox first party, the problem is those games could be coming too late: the first two years are crucial.
 

Conor

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
450
Since Gamepass ist everywhere with IT being in Xbox One, PC and everywhere with Xcloud there is absolutely no need to sell Series X, let alone at loss. This would absolutely contradict everything MS marketed until now.
Of course there is a reason to sell a series X, the console market has a userbase of well over 100m users and is worth billions of dollars. It's also a core aspect of their business. Console sales drive subscription to game pass, game pass drives console sales.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
Fuck no, whoever buys a publisher starts an arms race that becomes a giant consolidation of the industry that will never be reversed.

I don't think it's good from a customer / employee perspective (because people will lose their jobs). But from a business perspective, it makes sense imo. Even if Sony also buys some studios, that doesn't matter to Microsoft. What matters is that Xbox stays relevant. If the next GTA, Witcher, Cyberpunk or Skyrim will only be on Xbox, people will get an Xbox.
 

Shpeshal Nick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,856
Melbourne, Australia
😂 Bruh, it's not a reason at all. That's such a ridiculous notion.

Yeah, to someone who doesn't wanna believe it of course it is. But it makes sense. Sony are experts at flaming the console wars. They turned it into an art form over the last 25 years. They saw what the Digital Foundry comparisons were doing to the Xbox One image all this generation. They saw what it did to the PS3 for 7 years.

No way they want that again.

They also get the added bonus of...having exclusive games.
 

Neural

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,820
Italy
That is a really big claim, considering all we been reading is that MS is ok in not selling us a console now, as long they stay in their ecosystem. And that being the big reason for the cross gen games.
MS is ok if you choose PC, or even mobile, over a console, any console, as long you stay in their ecosystem. Totally fine. But for the people wanting a console experience, they want them to get an Xbox. They want them to choose their console over someone else's console, so they'll stay in their ecosystem. It' pretty simple.
 

Angie

Best Avatar Thread Ever!
Member
Nov 20, 2017
39,466
Kingdom of Corona
MS is ok if you choose PC, or even mobile, over a console, any console, as long you stay in their ecosystem. Totally fine. But for the people wanting a console experience, they want them to get an Xbox. They want them to choose their console over someone else's console. It' pretty simple.
But isn't that why they will be making a lowe entry console?
If the Serie X is already cheaper than the PS5 like Dusk claims than why that cheaper console?
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
dont turn this into that, I literally asked why trust one leak over another....because it doesn't work to your narrative you have painted yourself? What you wan to believe?

I'm not turning it into anything, I'm providing facts as usual.

i just want to know what he has leaked that is so on the money. It's you that's claiming he has been right on everything, not me.

is there a place I can see this stuff?

From the top of my head:

- anaconda was more powerful
- hinted there would be a ~15% difference in power between both consoles
- said PS5 had hardware raytracing even before it got officially announced (some people were doubting that after project scarlett reveal)
- the Github leak was not accurate, which is true because a lot of stuff changed

Other stuff was show/game/services related.

I mean, just go through his post history if you're that interested... doesn't change the fact that he's reliable. If you prefer to believe a guy that says PS5 struggles with 1080p, go ahead. We'll find out soon anyway.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
I wrote a long post but I don't think anyone would read this, so here is the short version:

Imo the most important thing is having good AAA exclusives, everything else is secondary. With the majority of Microsoft's first party titles being years away, and Sony buying third party exclusives, it's not looking good for Microsoft in that respect.

That's why I think Microsoft needs to buy a big game studio/publisher like Bethesda / Take 2 / CD Project Red. Not some small dev. They need to go big. If they don't do this, I fear that their market share will be even smaller than during this gen.

my question is why is Sony buying these third Party games, are their first party games year's out too?

they must be looking to fill some gaps, if they have outright bought third party exclusives they will have to fit into a schedule and be given considerable focus or the money is wasted. We really need more info on release dates for next Gen.
 

Lom1lo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,433
The comment about less multiplattform on every console and more ps5/xsx + pc sounds horrible. Not sure how anyone can be excited about this
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Yeah, to someone who doesn't wanna believe it of course it is. But it makes sense. Sony are experts at flaming the console wars. They turned it into an art form over the last 25 years. They saw what the Digital Foundry comparisons were doing to the Xbox One image all this generation. They saw what it did to the PS3 for 7 years.

No way they want that again.

They also get the added bonus of...having exclusive games.
The difference between xsx and ps5 is around 18% in gpu in favour of xsx (cpu is 3% in favour of xsx but 10% of one of xsx cpu cores is booked for velocity architecture while ps5 cpu is not involved in such task making them the same )
124% speed infavour of ps5.

for comparison, X1x had 42% morepowerful gpu and 50% more ram yet maybe few games show notice difference and sony wasn't worried about digital foundry clips and pro sold good .

How in the world 18% gpu difference is something That sony so afraid of that they want to spend billions on it to hide it?? That's such an odd take .
 
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