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Oct 29, 2017
6,258
I disagree. I think Sony took the lead with a $100 price difference for better hardware, then kept the momentum with the good games. Because, let's be honest, PS4 launch line up wasnt stellar, but the price was right.

MSis going to have to get its hands dirty to fight against this "PS Advantage" nonsense.

That was brutal, but the DRM debacle was far more impactful, IMO. People were already livid at MS for that.

Sony had also done a monumental job of repairing the PS3's image after its godawful launch. By 2013, that gave them a level of trust that MS had let slip away as they chased the Kinect dollar.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Don't know what evidence you got for 5. Gamepass investment alone would make your presumption untrue.

6. This isn't a issue for MS alone, it's industry wide, so applies to Google/Amazon/Sony/Nvidia, so can't be counted against them, because in areas they aren't being obstructed by a provider, they're in a position of strength.

Gamepass + price parity + multiple hardware options will instantly put Xbox in a strong position in US from day 1, they're about to reset Xbox One failures once XSX launches. Completely expect them to make gains in EU too because of their more accomodating approach this time round.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
First, off apologies if the thread title is a little gimicky.

As a fan of Xbox, MS are truly doing some exciting things I've personally been asking for since the Don Mattrick era. Game Pass is a great service, they've added quite a few teams to their first party, games are coming (albeit, far away) and the Series X seems to be quite an impressive piece of tech. What comes as a surprise to me is just how deflated, and down, ever since the Xbox games showcase. After recent news here on Era regarding third party exclusives, the past few months of reveals, marketing, and missteps, as well as the past 7 years of console sales, it's hard not to be a little fearful for Microsoft's gaming division in the upcoming generation. This thread is NOT to discuss their departure from gaming, that's not in the realm of constructive discussion, and not the point of this thread.

Here's what MS has to go up against:

1. A lackluster Halo infinite reveal
2. A less competent, still growing and maturing first party (don't take too much offense to "less competent", what I meant is really just in comparison to Sony's excellent first party roster).
3. An astronomical difference in social engagement/mindshare
4. Rather large difference in first 1-2 year exclusive titles, as well as now major third party exclusive games and content. For now, Halo Infinite is the only major launch release, as well as possibly the first year (if Forza manages to hit 2021).
5. Smaller divisional budget compared to Playstation
6. Lack of iOS support for their cloud gaming push, a would-have-been key feature for Game Pass
7. A less than stellar overall lead up in marketing/reveals for next-generation (No games running on Series X yet, no flagship, tentpole title to show off graphics tech, etc)
8. This one is more subjective, but the lack of "new", for me, is a little deflating (OS, controller, marketing colors/scheme/game cases, etc.).

Having said all that, it's hard not to be a little fearful for what will entail the first couple years of this gen. It would be a surprise to absolutely no one that PS5 may just end up being one of the best selling Playstation consoles of all time given their incredible steam they've garnered going into next-generation. It seems to be a recipe for (I hate this word) domination. A hugely popular console, a barrage of first party games, third party exclusive content/games/DLC and what seems to me, thus far, a lot more money spent in advertising.

What MS is offering gaming next-generation:

1. Heavily rumored and all but revealed, a price conscious next-generation console: Lockhart.
Still a lot to speculate on. Will it feature a controller? Disc drive? Will it just be a digital edition or a weaker console? Just how cheap is "cheap"? Enough to entice people engrossed in the Playstation ecosystem? It's a tough call, one that I'd have to say needs to be cheaper than Microsoft has ever been comfortable pricing their tech before. I have doubts on this one but it could be big if priced right

2. Game Pass
Across PC, Xbox, and as the tech grows, it seems the goal is to get it on TVs and other similar devices. While it's nice it's on Android, again, huge blow for not being on iOS which effectively kills the cloud gaming initiative for me unless I fork out several hundred for an Android device. Theoretically, having Game Pass available to stream on all mobile devices is huge. Will it come to fruition? I'm cautious.

3. Power.
This one is a bit cloudy, to be fair. Both consoles are doing different things, and as we've heard from industry vets, insiders, etc, the teraflop difference has little meaning, and the SSD seems to be doing big things for Sony. Question will be in how they both market, and at the end of the day, how the games/machines perform

4. In improved first party roster was listed above yes, but only in comparison to Sonys. Everwild, Fable, Avowed, Initiative and more. At least more exclusive content will be coming, which is a first for Xbox in a long, long time.

5. A launch Halo game.
Again, both negative and positive. Still optimistic this game will be a hit, given its f2p and the MP in 5 was stellar.

6. Steam releases.
Self explanatory, these seem to be doing so well, and in general, releasing games on PC ensures a bigger community and player population. Brilliant move which seems to be doing really well for MS thus far

7. Backwards Compatibility
This one may be overstated, but a nice feature nonetheless.

+/- Cross gen initiative.
Personally this is a negative but could entice more to invest in games that would otherwise have been left to just next-generation effectively limiting their playerbase.

I think at the end of the day, if Microsoft focuses strictly internally they could really come into their own this generation, similar to Playstation 3's transition from launch to mid-late generation. Not sure if Phil plans to be more aggressive, but I think competing for third party content is the wrong move for them. Build up first party studios, perhaps acquire more studios, and focus on offering games and content that attracts/draws people in. Games that must be played. After all, its all about the games. Sony has demonstrated that remarkably. It's not enough to offer what Sony does but less popularly and less effectively. There needs to be a reason for existing. Game Pass and games will be the key, offer something only they could do. Competing with Sony will likely not happen, and if it does, it wont be until mid generation at the earliest.

So I pose a question to you, and although it's in the title, it's not "Can they?", it's what can Microsoft do compete with Sony? What should they focus on going forward?
They have different strategies. Microsoft is more concerned about growing subscriptions because this is where the industry is headed. They are OK with you getting their game on console or PC, and if you so wish on mobile devices. For this reason you will see them releasing their games day and date on Game Pass.

Sony is more concerned about selling you consoles, for this reason you will not see any of their games coming out on PC day and date.

As for things like Halo, forget what people in this site think.
A less competent development team? Again, forget what people on this site think. That would apply to a lot of other things in your post.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,380
Why is there an obsession with whether or not Xbox is doomed? Do we show this much concern for Pepsi in a world with Coke?
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
The other thing is that the traditional business models won't last forever (or at least won't be the primary money-maker forever), and they've got a great head start.
 

jfkgoblue

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
Buying a studio is very different to paying to keep something like GTA off another console.

To add to this they bought up a ton of studios that either were in financial issues or locked to MS specifically i.e Playground games. The other option seemed to be in the future we may not have had those studios at all.
They bought studios such as Ninja Theory and Obsidian that were big independent studios. In the end the effect is the same, keeping games off the competition's hardware
 

Grimmy11

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,764
They'll be successful doing their own thing. In terms of directly competing against Sony I don't think they can at the moment. With all respect to them their first party studios (with the exception of Playground) just aren't producing anywhere near the level of Sony's studios for most people. To catch up they'd have to be exceeding them.
 

CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,722
Not everyone cares for Sony titles. Their games still hold weight, the launch showing in not the only games ever coming out of the system. They have finally invested in very talented studious and hopefully that pays off. They have been making good decisions with Phil earning a lot of Goodwill. All their first party titles including infinite are going to do well and move hardware regardless of what the memes are saying. And they don't have to be first to make money. This is console war fodder. They had a great gen while trailing Sony the entire time.
 
Oct 29, 2017
810
I think the essential issue is ppl see Xbox and think if it's not doing exactly what PlayStation is doing then Xbox is failing. That's weird to me because Nintendo is doing amazing and in some aspects better than PS but it's not a big story . Why can't Xbox just be different and successful with the way they have do things
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,398
Melbourne, Australia
I'm sure Microsoft will be fine. I can see hardware sales being slow to begin with with how underwhelming their marketing has been so far (mind you there's still time for that to turn around) but stuff like Game Pass will do good numbers and Halo Infinite will be a success.

Microsoft have spent the last couple of years getting themselves into a position where they can really bring it on the first party front and while I had hoped we'd already be seeing more of the fruits of that I expect they'll begin to look very strong in a year or two.
 

Yog-Sothoth

Member
Oct 1, 2018
3,225
I'm not even sure they care that much to compete with Sony in console sales anymore. More and more MS is clearly stepping off the traditional console business, seeking market penetration in other areas that might be more profitable for them and creating their own space within the industry just like Nintendo did when they saw it wasn't worth it to compete with Sony in the exact same space.

I think they're fine.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,732
Compete with Playstation in terms of what? Console sales? Microsoft isn't trying to compete there.

It's become quite evident at this point that Microsoft wants to sell games. It doesn't matter whether you're streaming it on a phone, playing on a PC, or playing on Xbox. Their goals have shifted away from moving units of Xbox hardware. It's just there for those that want it.

PS5 will sell significantly more units than Series X and Series S. And that's probably OK with Microsoft as long as they're getting the returns they want on their portfolio of games.
 

Negotiator117

Banned
Jul 3, 2020
1,713
Sony are a hardware company, when hardware is left behind (and it will) they don't have the infrastructure to adapt and their dominance will end.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,944
I miss the good old days when only Nintendo was doomed.
 

Prime2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,338
They bought studios such as Ninja Theory and Obsidian that were big independent studios. In the end the effect is the same, keeping games off the competition's hardware

Ninja theory who said they weren't doing well financially and were struggling and obsidian was in debt. Read the article Jason Schrier did at the time when he broke the news.

Would you rather those studios just died ??

If you can't see the difference from buying a studio and letting them make games compared to here's a bag of money and that game we know you've made just keep it off that platform for a year there is little reason for this conversation to continue.
 

halfjoey

Member
Nov 26, 2017
882
I never owned and Xbox One, but GP is enough to sell me on a Series X. Maybe not at launch but within a year for sure.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
MS is playing their own game and they're doing well. They'll make money through gamepass and offering their titles everywhere, as well as of course Lockhart which could be a game changer in the console market.

I have zero doubt PS5 will outsell Xbox, lockhart included, but I don't think it'll be the 2.5:1 or whatever the ratio currrently is. Not even close to that.

Halo Infinite being free to play is one major step for them as well. And I'm not quite sure what you mean by large difference in 1-2 year exclusives. PS5 is launching with Miles, and... that's it? When it comes to launch exclusives, the consoles are even at the very least.
 

Ryengeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Georgia, US
VR is weird with MS. I totally understand them not wanting to spend the money to develop it but why not make a deal with Oculus for something?
Honestly, I think it's just a matter of message right now. They probably could have a VR solution ready to go rather quickly if they wanted to for the Series X, but the majority of the fanbase still frowns upon it so I believe they see not even having the option available is better than implementing it for now.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Realistically? They just can't

They needed to have a renaissance like PS3 had and release games that turn heads.

But it's look like it won't be until 2022 and beyond before their studios hit the ground running and even then they aren't certain to be hits.

Sony has too much built hype with the likes of Spider-Man 2, God of War 2, TLOU3, etc that it just isn't possible to imagine beating them right now.

PS5 has to have a RROD situation + have multiplats that look way worse than Series X to possibly be impacted.

However, if Xbox does really well with it's games this gen then by next gen they might be in a very competitive place.
 

FeD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,275
Honestly it feels like the Wii again.

Microsoft is just going in a completely different direction, and that's fine. Sony and Microsoft are not playing the same game anymore. And I'm sure they'll both find success.
 

black070

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,583
I think Game Pass is actually a really smart pursuit for them beyond just being a great initiative in general. Rather than focusing on dominating the market, they're investing in a service that ensures a steady cash flow from their core audience.
 
Oct 29, 2017
6,258
MS isn't competing with Sony directly anymore.

Between putting games on Steam, Xbox Anywhere, Game Pass and XCloud, they are aiming for a FAR broader audience than selling the most consoles could ever get them. Between that and the Switch being a console/handheld hybrid, Sony is the only one still pursuing a "traditional" approach--and even they are starting to port their games to Steam as well. The overall market is changing in deep, fundamental ways.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,489
Austin
If Microsoft as a a corporation wanted to "compete" in the sense you're thinking which basically means buy market share through spending, they could, but remember that for MS, Xbox is a just small piece of the overall pie and it may not be worth it to try and be number 1 when being number 2 or 3 is good enough.

For Sony who for the most part has been living on PlayStation for some time so for them it makes much more sense to make sure they stay in the dominant position. They can dedicate more company resources.

It all comes down to whose willing to spend so even though Microsoft can outspend they choose not to, or to spend in other ways that align with the companies larger priorities.

Essentially Microsoft isn't trying to compete directly with Sony, the same way Nintendo doesn't try to compete directly. Both MS and Nintendo have found and are looking for new ways to play.
 

Sotha_Sil

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,067
Make good products and release good services, and people will come. Everwild, Avowed, Fable, State of Decay 2, Forza Motorsport, Game Pass, etc.

Only places like this forum care about who sells the most consoles. In the real world, these companies have their own expectations for sales and meeting that is "winning" for them.

Microsoft probably views the OG Xbox and 360 as "wins", and the Xbox One as a major "loss".
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,800
Simply put, they can't.

Game Pass won't attract the juggernauts. Their budget for this endeavour is split between a larger pool of smaller games and because of this they have decided not to make counter-offers on the huge third-party deals that command mindshare.

Lockhart may be $299 but I'm not sure that can be enough against a potential $399 PS5 Digital Edition and all of the games that are attached to PS5 by way of first-party development AND third-party deals. Sony's first-party is more ready for the a new generation than it ever has been, but it doesn't appear like MS is ready for this coming generation at all despite the talk - they are hesitant to show gameplay running on Series X and the only first-party launch title they've announced is Halo Infinite (we've seen what it looks like) and is confirmed to not launch with a defining next-gen feature. Jason did say Series X was likely going to launch hot and I think he may end up being correct on that sentiment.
 
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jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
MS isnt competing with sony in the traditional sense at all at this point. Theyre going for the long game of developing a platform and ecosystem as opposed to a box every 5-8 years as their primary strategy.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
They can't compete for the top position but they don't need to as long as they can continue to carve out their own healthy segment of the industry
 

IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
Microsoft will be fine. It's not fighting for Era points
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
They can't compete in terms of console says. It just isnt going to happen on a global level. That said their approach isn't designed with that as the primary focus. They want to convince people to join their ecosystem. They've been continuing to make Game Pass an attractive option to consumers. Putting more focus on PC, putting out a cheaper next gen console, and rolling out xCloud helps them get people into the Xbox ecosystem one way or the other. Microsoft excels as a services and software company. That's the sort of pivot you see Xbox going through currently.
 

Azurik

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
2,441
MS will struggle next gen again. However, they are in a great position to make big changes. All the new studios will hopefully make good games people will remember and make them want to continue the series on next next gen, therefore building up much more hype. All the services are also hitting all the right notes.

All this should have happened with the start of current gen and MS would be in a much better position for next gen.


Sony got gamers firmly in their grasp. The PS4 install base is immense and high ps5 sales are guaranteed as people want to continue games like horizon, spiderman, god of war etc on next gen. Sony simply got the better games for majority of gamers.

Yes, MS has is going into next gen with the better services, better hardware (remains to be seen), but it's the games where it's at and Sony leads (imo) by a large margin.

I reckon next next gen, the gap will be much smaller, or perhaps tipped into MS favour as we potentially won't have consoles as we know it and it will be more about services where MS leads by a large margin
 

Bulby

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,038
Berlin
They are not going to outsell the PS5 console. It will probably be at least 2:1 again.

Can they make more net profit that Sony? Yes.
 

Bonfires Down

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,816
Yes, the Lockhart. It's much easier to get your parents to buy a $250-$300 console than a $400-$500 one.

Game Pass + xCloud could also be big outside the console.
 
Oct 24, 2019
6,560
Based on threads here, just go moneyhat a ton of things. Its fine to do now I suppose.

According to insiders, Microsoft has been trying to do that, but:
1. They aren't willing to pay as much as Sony
2. The price is higher for them than for Sony because their ecosystem is smaller

This isn't about "Evil/Violent Sony" or "Nice Guy Microsoft," it's about Sony being able to secure great deals (from a business point of view) for prices that seem worthwhile to them, while Microsoft is not willing to spend the greater amount of money to secure those same deals.

Take Square Enix for example— if they see that most of their big AAA games historically sell the best on PlayStation and PlayStation is also the current market leader, then it's no great sacrifice for them to say "sure, we'll make this game exclusive to your console for a year, since that's where the bulk of the sales would have been anyway." Therefore the price for Sony to lock down that exclusivity is a lot cheaper.
 

Aska

Member
Jan 11, 2020
1,143
They can compete although maybe never reach parity ever again but the thing is being the second on a multi-million industry is not a bad deal.
 

JasonV

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,967
Does anyone else feel like the "MS Isn't Competing with Sony" narrative is just a construction to deflect from the reality that they are in a vastly worse position since the 360 and have not offered anything competitive to Sony for 2 generations now?

Because for a company that "isnt competing" they spent a lot of time and money building that new box. They devoted an entire conference to just the hardware.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Official Staff Communication
This thread is about how Microsoft can be expected to compete with Sony in regards to Sony's recent business decisions. Comparisons are inevitable this summer, but we expect this conversation to be had without attacking one another and without platform wars. Any drive-by posts, platform wars, or hostilities will be strictly moderated.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,587
Sony got big because they made games people loved.

Maybe start there and see what happens.

Exactly this. This will be the 5th generation of Sony delivering an excellent library over the life of their console.

The only Xbox that has equaled Sony in a generation was the 360. Not a lot of trust there to build a brand over decades.

They need to consistently deliver amazing games that people love- they've only done that once with the 360. Here's to hoping Series X is another and the console after that is too- then they'll truly have something that rivals what Sony's built.
 

nacimento

Member
Oct 27, 2017
673
If MS is serious about competing they should put minecraft / minecraft successor on everything except PlayStation. It would cost them money, but no pain no gain.
 
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