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Real Estate Era: what happens if you pull a home on sale off the market?

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,967
Gonna try to keep it brief: we put our home up for sale a couple of months ago. I ended up accepting an offer, but the buyer now wants to renegotiate (EDIT: appraisal for the property came up short, so I'm not blaming the buyer at all, especially if they simply can't come up with the rest) and, well, things just aren't going anywhere. On top of that, our real state agent is real pushy (but not not necessarily uncivil--not yet at least), and is not relaying our messages to the buyer (instead trying to 'give us time to think it over' to convince us to accept their offer.) I am very much fed up with the whole situation and would like to pull the plug. What do I have to look forward to if I just say f it, house is off the market? Will I have to pay a fee? Face legal action?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Joni

Joni

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Oct 27, 2017
19,508
Have you signed anything with the buyer? For the rest, check your contract with the agent.
 
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srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,967
Joni said:
Have you signed anything with the buyer? For the rest, check your contract with the agent.
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I believe the escrow process started, but we haven't signed all the papers yet, like tax forms or some papers that need to be notarized.

CopyOfACopy said:
are you in the USA?

are you still negotiating or are you in contract?
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I'm in the US. The buyer had originally agreed to our original price, but is negotiating a lower price now.
 

Deleted member 5876

Big Seller
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,559
If you accepted an offer and both you and the buyer signed it then that's that.
If the buyer is now coming back saying they want to change it and you don't accept his change the buyer loses the escrow that he should have put up.
 
Joshua

Joshua

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,711
You might want to try the /r/legaladvice sub-Reddit.

Also here's a good and brief video to give you better mental expectation of a real estate agent's motivations (the system just doesn't incentivize them after a certain point). Not trying to make you suspicious of your agent specifically, but to give you better idea of what you may see out of their actions:

 
The Albatross

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,985
If you haven't agreed to the renegotiated offer, it's your right to reject that offer. You haven't negotiated a purchase & sale agreement, or accepted any deposits or anything from the potential buyer, right? If there's no agreement, there's no contract, and you're not liable for anything.

And then if you decide to stop listing the house, I don't think you need to pay anything. Your agent makes money when your house sells, they agree to represent you and your best interests, and if you decide that your best interest is to not sell your house, then they have to respect that. If you're worried about letting your agent down or hurting your relationship with them (if it's a friend or osmethiing) blame it on COVID... "Y'know... with COVD... we're just scared about my job changing and selling the house and there's too many unknowns, so we want to wait it out a while longer, I'm sorry thank you for your help blah blah" You probably signed an agreement with your realtor when you hired them, the realtor signed a document that said they're representing you and your best interests (this is required where we live if you have a realtor, and prevents, say, a realtor from working wiith one of their co-workers to drive up the price of you rhouse so they make more money, or vice versa, to help out a friend, or their realty business, etc), so review those documents. IIRC they're pretty much in plain english.

FYI, I'm not a realtor, but am close with a real estate attorney and we sold our old house and bought a new one last year so this is fresh experience for us. If there is a real estate attorney in here please correct me if I'm wrong. You probably don't have an attorney lined up yet for your sale, right? I'm lucky that we've always had a real estate attorney in the family so I can ask him questions like this without getting billed :D
 
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Tater

Tater

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,585
You should talk to a lawyer.

That being said, if you accepted their offer, you're probably committed to that offer. So if the buyer wants to re-negotiate things, you can just say no, which leaves the buyer with three choices - take your original offer, walk away, or do nothing.

If the buyer does nothing, I've got to imagine there are specific timelines in the offer so as to not allow the process to drag indefinitely (but that didn't come up when I bought houses in the past).
 
HammerOfThor

HammerOfThor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,860
srtrestre said:
I believe the escrow process started, but we haven't signed all the papers yet, like tax forms or some papers that need to be notarized.

I'm in the US. The buyer had originally agreed to our original price, but is negotiating a lower price now.
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For starters, you should always have an attorney when dealing with real estate.

Second, it sounds like you don't like the new offer. Just say no. Done. If you don't want to sell it at all now, it sounds like your breaking the original agreement. Talk to an attorney.
 
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srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,967
Yeah, I think I will contact a lawyer. Just wanted to see if anyone here had gone through a similar experience. Thanks for the advice!
 

Deleted member 5876

Big Seller
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,559
I really don't feel an attorney is needed here. But I guess everyone has their own level of comfort.
I will say that if you ever are in a situation in real estate where you feel like you need an attorney then your real estate agent has fucked up really badly.
 
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srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,967
xgalaxy said:
I really don't feel an attorney is needed here. But I guess everyone has their own level of comfort.
I will say that if you ever are in a situation in real estate where you feel like you need an attorney then your real estate agent has fucked up really badly.
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Yup. Like I said, they've been civil so far, but we are no longer comfortable with them. We do not feel like they have our best interest in mind. Has been real slow showing us homes to move to, and is pushy as fuck. We have zero confidence in them right now.
 
whatsinaname

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,054
So if you accepted an offer, you cannot back out. It will depend on the wording of the offer if they can back out.

I am guessing you had a clause that the deal will hold 'passing inspection' and they are negotiating after inspection? If they are being difficult and you feel they are nitpicking and there's no real issues with the house, just say no.

As for your estate agent - you will have to look into what contract you signed with them. Some shady ones have lock-ins, etc.

Another option is to go over your realtors head to the broker (if you are working with a firm).

If possible, ignore buying a new place through them - put your stuff in storage and buy through a separate agent and find temporary accomodation in the meantime.
 
The Albatross

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,985
Typically an offer is contingent on a deposit... Buyer makes an offer, seller accepts, and the buyer then put $x in escrow. If you and the buyer did that, they made an offer that you accepted and they made a deposit and it's in escrow ... and now they're trying to renegotiate the price...? You can just say no to their renegotiated offer, and then the ball is in the buyer's court to continue wiith the original agreement or bail. The buyer has more to lose because they put the deposit in escrow. You shouldn't try to back out of the original offer even if you've changed your mind with this negotiating.

Also wtf with this buyer making an offer, you accept, they give deposit and then ... they're tryiing to renegotiate...? Unless you didn't disclose something that came up via inspection or some new details, perhaps?
 
Joni

Joni

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Oct 27, 2017
19,508
StopMakingSense said:
I think by 'he' he means the buyer, they may lose their deposit or have some fee, depending on contract.
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Yep. As an example of why I think that: when I bought in Belgium, once the offer - so not the notarial papers - were signed, if I cancelled, I would lose my deposit of 10%. If the seller did, he would have pay me back the deposit times two.
 
whatsinaname

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,054
Joni said:
Yep. As an example of why I think that: when I bought in Belgium, once the offer - so not the notarial papers - were signed, if I cancelled, I would lose my deposit of 10%. If the seller did, he would have pay me back the deposit times two.
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Not sure if it is the same in Belgium but in the US buyer inspection of the property happens after the offer is signed. So usually there's a clause that amounts to 'I am signing this offer and price if it turns out there's no problems with the house'. So there's scope for negotiation after that offer.
 
BarryFishFinger

BarryFishFinger

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Oct 27, 2017
7,468
Do you not just make it very clear you don't accept the new offer? You don't have to accept it, nothing is set in stone yet. If you won't accept the new offer then either the buyer walks away, revises the offer or accepts the original offer.
 
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srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,967
The Albatross said:
Also wtf with this buyer making an offer, you accept, they give deposit and then ... they're tryiing to renegotiate...? Unless you didn't disclose something that came up via inspection or some new details, perhaps?
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Their bank came over for their inspection and said the property wasn't worth the full asking price, so that is why they are trying to negotiate. Escrow papers we were sent still lists the original price, though.
 
The Albatross

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,985
srtrestre said:
Their bank came over for their inspection and said the property wasn't worth the full asking price, so that is why they are trying to negotiate. Escrow paper we were sent still lists the original price, though.
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Ohhhh, gotcha. That's actually pretty common, the bank won't extend them a loan because the value of the house is a percentage below what their offer is. Banks got more strict with thiis after the housing crash.
 
cheeseholidays

cheeseholidays

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Oct 27, 2017
1,452
Are you under contract for the original price? Even if not just reject their new offer. You're not obligated to sell at a price you haven't agreed to.
 
whatsinaname

whatsinaname

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Oct 25, 2017
15,054
srtrestre said:
Their bank came over for their inspection and said the property wasn't worth the full asking price, so that is why they are trying to negotiate. Escrow papers we were sent still lists the original price, though.
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Ah, negotiation on appraisal then.

This is a stickier problem because even if you back out and sell through someone else, other buyers will face the exact same issue!

Unless you find another buyer who is all cash or another buyer who loves the place and is willing to pay the difference between the selling price and appraisal price, you are out of luck.
 
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srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
18,967
cheeseholidays said:
Are you under contract for the original price? Even if not just reject their new offer. You're not obligated to sell at a price you haven't agreed to.
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Yeah, I've told my agent multiple times that we reject their new offer, but the agent just won't relay that information for some reason. I just don't understand it.

whatsinaname said:
Ah, negotiation on appraisal then.

This is a stickier problem because even if you back out and sell through someone else, other buyers will face the exact same issue!

Unless you find another buyer who is all cash or another buyer who loves the place and is willing to pay the difference between the selling price and appraisal price, you are out of luck.
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Yeah, we have pretty much resigned ourselves to not sell.
 
prophetvx

prophetvx

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Nov 28, 2017
5,329
srtrestre said:
Their bank came over for their inspection and said the property wasn't worth the full asking price, so that is why they are trying to negotiate. Escrow papers we were sent still lists the original price, though.
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Then the buyer is on the hook typically, the only time contractually they can pull out without a financial hit is when an inspection fails, not an appraisal, that should be done before contracts are signed.

Appraisal by a bank is contingent on financial factors as well as the property value, no doubt banks will be tightening their appraisals given higher default rates due to the pandemic. They're obviously taking out a high LTV ratio mortgage.
 
GoldenEye 007

GoldenEye 007

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Oct 25, 2017
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Texas
The Albatross said:
Typically an offer is contingent on a deposit... Buyer makes an offer, seller accepts, and the buyer then put $x in escrow. If you and the buyer did that, they made an offer that you accepted and they made a deposit and it's in escrow ... and now they're trying to renegotiate the price...? You can just say no to their renegotiated offer, and then the ball is in the buyer's court to continue wiith the original agreement or bail. The buyer has more to lose because they put the deposit in escrow. You shouldn't try to back out of the original offer even if you've changed your mind with this negotiating.

Also wtf with this buyer making an offer, you accept, they give deposit and then ... they're tryiing to renegotiate...? Unless you didn't disclose something that came up via inspection or some new details, perhaps?
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This is extremely common. All sorts of issues could pop up to necessitate a lower offer after the original offer was made. Most commonly its an appraisal that comes under the sales price and/or the inspection found issues that might necessitate a buyer adjusting their offer. And in my one experience as a buyer, I'd definitely recommend demanding a lower asking price or monetary concessions over demanding a seller make repairs - as long as you're not in a stupid competitive market where people will take anything regardless of issues with a house at almost any price.

prophetvx said:
Then the buyer is on the hook typically, the only time contractually they can pull out without a financial hit is when an inspection fails, not an appraisal, that should be done before contracts are signed.

Appraisal by a bank is contingent on financial factors as well as the property value, no doubt banks will be tightening their appraisals given higher default rates due to the pandemic.
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This depends on what is in the contract. An appraisal coming in below asking is certainly a common financing contingency to protect buyers. It's not always a wise idea to pay more for something than it's worth. And if that contingency is active, a buyer can walk away without any major issues. Inspections are also quite complicated given so many components are looked at. It's possible a bunch of issues come up that don't necessarily make a house unlivable, but also gives a buyer cause to walk away. That's why an inspection period is also common in contracts.
 
BarryFishFinger

BarryFishFinger

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Oct 27, 2017
7,468
srtrestre said:
Their bank came over for their inspection and said the property wasn't worth the full asking price, so that is why they are trying to negotiate. Escrow papers we were sent still lists the original price, though.
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That's a fairly crucial bit of info. Presumably the buyer doesn't have a choice then if their bank won't lend at the original value, they have to try and renegotiate. Which is presumably why your real estate agent is dragging things out, if this buyer walks, a new buyer/bank is going to potentially to have the same issue down the line.
 
Septimus Prime

Septimus Prime

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Oct 25, 2017
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One thing I will warn you is that, even if you de-list the house, that doesn't mean that inquiry calls will stop. Your agent has likely already listed it on the MLS, and people are going to be calling non-stop.

Also, it sounds like you should fire your agent.
 
mute

mute

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Last time I sold my house (US, NC) we signed a listing agreement with our agent that basically said we were commiting to having her sell our house for x days and couldn't say pull out and get another agent until that time period was over.
srtrestre said:
Their bank came over for their inspection and said the property wasn't worth the full asking price, so that is why they are trying to negotiate. Escrow papers we were sent still lists the original price, though.
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Same thing happened to me. Long story short, the buyer is on the hook for the original agreed upon price. If the bank only agrees to loan price-x, and the buyer can't make up the difference, then their only option is to negotiate a lower price or drop out (and lose their due diligence deposit). If you really don't want to renegotiate/don't like the offer, then you should drop them, take the deposit, and get another buyer (which will have another bank, another appraisal, and might not be as low/buyer may be able to make up difference.)

How long did it take you to get the offer? What are you doing for your next place? Do you need the cash from the sale of the old place to close on the new place? Things to consider. You can always get another offer, just depends on your timeline how badly you want to hang on to the one you have.
srtrestre said:
Yeah, I've told my agent multiple times that we reject their new offer, but the agent just won't relay that information for some reason. I just don't understand it.
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If you do nothing, then they can't sell your house and you get to keep the deposit. Whether your agent is communicating or not. Just don't sign anything.
 
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srtrestre

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Oct 25, 2017
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mute said:
How long did it take you to get the offer? What are you doing for your next place? Do you need the cash from the sale of the old place to close on the new place? Things to consider. You can always get another offer, just depends on your timeline how badly you want to hang on to the one you have.

If you do nothing, then they can't sell your house and you get to keep the deposit. Whether your agent is communicating or not. Just don't sign anything.
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It took about 2 months (more or less) to get this offer. We don't have a new place yet, and it's one of the things I'm concerned/frustrated about--our agent refuses to take us to see new properties until we have a firm deal on ours.
 
Commedieu

Commedieu

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Nov 11, 2017
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srtrestre said:
It took about 3 months to get this offer. We don't have a new place yet, and it's one of the things I'm concerned/frustrated about--our agent refuses to take us to see new properties until we have a firm deal on ours.
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You have the worst agent in the world. Being assed enough to show you to other places, might get you excited to get an offer on your current house. Its going to take months to close anyway when all is said and done.

If I didn't sign anything with the current agent, Ild look elsewhere. From the two things you've said, it doesn't sound like they're working for you. Clearly just wanting to get this done so they can get their $.
 
whatsinaname

whatsinaname

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Oct 25, 2017
15,054
srtrestre said:
It took about 2 months (more or less) to get this offer. We don't have a new place yet, and it's one of the things I'm concerned/frustrated about--our agent refuses to take us to see new properties until we have a firm deal on ours.
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How the fuck did the realtor set a selling price so far from appraised value. This whole thing is a mess...
 
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srtrestre

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Oct 25, 2017
18,967
whatsinaname said:
How the fuck did the realtor set a selling price so far from appraised value. This whole thing is a mess...
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What's funny is we told them what our price was, and they raised it so we would have "wiggle room to negotiate". It worked at first because we got what we wanted, but then the appraisal came in and that's when the problems started.
 
Septimus Prime

Septimus Prime

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Did they include a contingency for appraisal? If not, you should just stick to the agreed-upon price they offered or back out.
 
Sayre

Sayre

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Oct 27, 2017
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First, you should absolutely have a real estate lawyer in the US... not just a random one . if anything, it's to protect yourself from any shenanigans in the contract. Not sure what state you are in but it's typical to have one in my state.

the real estate agent is supposed to be advocating on your behalf. They provide suggestions and input but ultimately should be doing what you want. If they are not doing that, then you should fire them. Or warn them at least.

finally, if the appraisal came back less than expected, then there's nothing a buyer can really do except negotiate for a lower price if they cannot come up with the difference. If the appraisal is usually low, then another appraisal may be different with a different buyer. What was the average price of similar homes purchased in your area? (This is something your agent should be conveying to you)
 
Shake Appeal

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Oct 27, 2017
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You don't necessarily need a lawyer, but if your real estate agent isn't doing what you want, you should get a different real estate agent.
 
mute

mute

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srtrestre said:
It took about 2 months (more or less) to get this offer. We don't have a new place yet, and it's one of the things I'm concerned/frustrated about--our agent refuses to take us to see new properties until we have a firm deal on ours.
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In our case our agent wanted to show us all kinds of houses before we sold our first one. You can get bridge loans to cover the gap, which we didn't want to do but ultimately had to do because our first buyer backed out at the last minute.

Since you have no hard time limit I would let the buyer walk and wait for a better deal.
whatsinaname said:
How the fuck did the realtor set a selling price so far from appraised value. This whole thing is a mess...
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It is in the interest of both the seller and the agent that the price be higher, not lower. They both want more money. What determines if it is too high/too low is whether or not they get an offer, not what the bank appraisal says. If the appraisal is low, that is primarily the buyers problem. Generally though, the bank/appraiser will try and get as close to the selling price as possible.
 
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