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Ray Tracing on PS5 and Xbox Series X/S

Inglorious Man

Inglorious Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
805
Virginia, US
How capable is the PS5 and Xbox Series X/S when it comes to ray tracing? I understand that the PC is much better when it comes to ray tracing because of DLSS 2.0. I think that what will probably see a lot of this generation is games that have ray tracing with a 30fps frame rate. The best example of console ray tracing so far is Spider Man: Miles Morales that game has great ray tracing and there is even a 60fps ray tracing mode. I am really curious to see Cyberpunk 2077 ray tracing on PS5 and Xbox Series X/S. It will probably be ray tracing with 30fps but I am curious to see how they do the ray tracing on the new consoles. Also Control is releasing next month on the new consoles and I am really curious to see how it stacks up to the PC.
 
The Last One

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
The only game with Ray Tracing I played was the Spider-man Remastered and I thought it looked really great. If this is the kind of ray tracing we will get the whole generation then I'm fine with it.
 
killa2max

killa2max

Member
May 17, 2018
520
Seattle, WA
I don't think we know for sure yet (AMD GPUs on PC should help to verify that), but it seems close to RTX 2070 levels of RT performance.
 
elenarie

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,821
Honestly, people haven't really had a lot of time to work on their RT pipelines and tech. Performance will improve with time, as devs get more familiar about how to use RT in their games.

These early games are not indicative of the capabilities of all 3 machines, in regards to both RT and non-RT. :)
 

Deleted member 34714

User requested account closure
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Nov 28, 2017
1,617
What is confirmed from Hotchips breakdown is the Xbox Series X RT performs somewhat similar to a 2060, at 13TF. Note that is is all on the GPU CUs in general and not dedicated.
 
RayCharlizard

RayCharlizard

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,971
It's kind of hard to quantify right now because there aren't too many comparisons yet between software available on consoles and PC with similar ray tracing capabilities. I think one of the only comparison points right now is Watch Dogs: Legion and DigitalFoundry did a comparison there of how the RT works on PS5, XSX and XSS, what resolution they each run at and what it takes to get the same performance or better on PC. But considering that game hasn't had the greatest performance on each platform means it's maybe a poor sample.

Control will be 30 fps at an undetermined resolution, and I'm not sure that anything besides reflections have been confirmed for consoles whereas PC supported "reflections, transparent reflections, indirect diffuse lighting, contact shadows, and debris" (copy pasted from PC Gamer, haven't played it on PC). I think that will be the first really interesting comparison point since prior to Cyberpunk 2077 that game was kind of the "holy grail" of PC RT.
 
OldDirtyGamer

OldDirtyGamer

Member
Apr 14, 2019
2,476
RT murders my 2060 in cyberpunk so I'm not expecting great results on consoles . Some of the earlier games ran decent enough with rtx on tho so we shall see . Hopefully its an option , for 60fps w o RT
 
VanWinkle

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,095
It's hard to say, but I think they're maybe slightly underestimated, but they're definitely not comparable to the top end of the RTX 20xx cards, let alone the top 30xx cards.

Dictator from DF says it's at 2060 Super levels, but I don't know exactly how educated he is on the ins and outs of the consoles' specific RT capabilities or if it's more speculation based on what's shown thus far.
 
Gero

Gero

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,233
elenarie said:
Honestly, people haven't really had a lot of time to work on their RT pipelines and tech. Performance will improve with time, as devs get more familiar about how to use RT in their games.

These early games are not indicative of the capabilities of all 3 machines, in regards to both RT and non-RT. :)
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Waiting for the first true nextgen experience at the end of the year đź‘€
 
Kinthey

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,335
That Insomniac managed to make a 60FPS Ray tracing mode is really impressive to me. I guess the only caveat is that Miles Morales is a cross gen game.
 
julia crawford

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,293
There will be evolving solutions over time and as usual the consoles will prove able to perform above expectations given the skill and ingenuity of developers. As with any fixed system, it's way too early to know in any real way, since they live and breathe by developers having prolonged exposure to the same hardware.
 
RoboPlato

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,810
Transistor said:
All I can really say is going forward I want devs to aim for the Spider-Man 1440p / 60 FPS / RT sweet spot.
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Same. Insomniac's reconstruction method is so good too that it felt like a no compromise mode. I know it won't be possible in every title but it set a pretty high bar for my expectations.
 
Alexandros

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,815
AMD GPUs are quite a bit weaker than Nvidia hardware in ray tracing. Developers will have to use ray tracing carefully and find shortcuts and workarounds to ensure acceptable performance.
 

Deleted member 4212

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,872
I think we'll know a lot more about how it compares to PC when the Control next-gen patch comes out. That game uses all of the RTX features on PC so it will be a good comparison.

The RT reflections in spider-man look good, but it's obviously a lot lower resolution than the rest of the game. The effect still looks great, though. Definitely try fidelity mode during interior scenes. The RT performance mode is the best overall, but when you're indoors with shiny floors, it's worth having a look in fidelity mode because it looks amazing.
 
VanWinkle

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,095
It's also exciting to think about the improvements and optimizations that will be made as time goes on.

Look at this. In August (or whenever the demo was actually created, which very well could have been earlier than that), Insomniac's RT reflections looked like this in R&C Rift Apart:
0MNFcx.png


By November - launch - their RT reflection tech looked like this in Miles Morales:
0MNfHk.png



A huge improvement in realism, IMO. And that's just at launch.
 
OP
OP
Inglorious Man

Inglorious Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
805
Virginia, US
Aquavelvaman said:
I think we'll know a lot more about how it compares to PC when the Control next-gen patch comes out. That game uses all of the RTX features on PC so it will be a good comparison.

The RT reflections in spider-man look good, but it's obviously a lot lower resolution than the rest of the game. The effect still looks great, though.
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That would be impressive if Control uses all of RTX features on Consoles that the PC version has. The resolution is probably going to be 1440p and 30fps but that is really good. I am looking forward to the Digital Foundry comparison between the consoles and PC when it comes to RTX.
 
VanWinkle

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,095
Inglorious Man said:
That would be impressive if Control uses all of RTX features on Consoles that the PC version has. The resolution is probably going to be 1440p and 30fps but that is really good. I am looking forward to the Digital Foundry comparison between the consoles and PC when it comes to RTX.
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I doubt it. Without DLSS, even a 2080 can't hold a locked 30fps at 1440 with all RTX, and a 2080 definitely has better RT performance than the next-gen systems (and likely better rasterization performance, too).
 
WhtR88t

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,588
The Last One said:
The only game with Ray Tracing I played was the Spider-man Remastered and I thought it looked really great. If this is the kind of ray tracing we will get the whole generation then I'm fine with it.
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Yup! Miles Morales looks and runs great! I think this level and what we've seen in the Ratchet trailers I think the ray tracing future on PS5 is looking pretty strong.
 
King_Moc

King_Moc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,126
I played spiderman in the 30fps mode and there was a lot of noise in the reflections. So it seems like its right at the low end of what pc's are doing (someone said 2060 level above, and that is likely about right).

Its fine for fast moving games, but I was hoping for some bite sized indie games that make clever use of it as a core mechanic, and that noise might pose a problem there.
 
Deeke

Deeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
966
United States
Miles Morales is the best showcase of Ray tracing on PS5. Therees definitely a big difference between the PS4 and PS5 versions insofar as reflections.

On Xbox, I wasn't that impressed with watch dogs legion. Idk what other series x games use rt though.

I think control on ps5/xsx will be a huge showcase too so keep a look out. The game looks amazing with RTX on.
 
LavaBadger

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,988
People should continue to keep RT expectations low when it comes to consoles. The power is still just not there to be pushing RT/60fps/4k on really any hardware, even top end cards, and we haven't even seen much in the way of "next gen" games yet. Something has to give.

Unless half-step consoles see a huge increase in power, or some DLSS-like technology becomes more prominent on consoles (Something most likely software based), this is just not going to be the gen for ray tracing on consoles.
 
CurseVox

CurseVox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,356
Massachusetts (USA)
elenarie said:
Honestly, people haven't really had a lot of time to work on their RT pipelines and tech. Performance will improve with time, as devs get more familiar about how to use RT in their games.

These early games are not indicative of the capabilities of all 3 machines, in regards to both RT and non-RT. :)
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Exactly, which is pretty exciting to me, because this is just the beginning! A lot of focus has been spent in these early implementations on reflections, to kind of show off the tech, but honestly lighting / shadows are the real MVP of ray tracing. It will be what brings gaming to a whole new level of realism. I can't wait to see the creative ways devs start using it as it matures.
 

Obi Wan Jabroni

alt account
Banned
Dec 14, 2020
1,678
I hope they give us the option to turn it off if we want better performance.

For example, Watch Dog Legions has it but I'd gladly ditch it for a 60fps mode.
 

Sprat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,684
England
I've only seen it in miles moralis so far but I wasn't impressed at all. I thought it looked better with it off.

Everything looked overly shiny and clean.

Seems like every surface in that city got polished daily.
 
aevanhoe

aevanhoe

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Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,329
Obi Wan Jabroni said:
I hope they give us the option to turn it off if we want better performance.

For example, Watch Dog Legions has it but I'd gladly ditch it for a 60fps mode.
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RT looks really great in Watch Dogs Legion, though. Combined with HDR, neon lights during a rainy night - it looks amazing.
 
egg

egg

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,602
Sprat said:
I've only seen it in miles moralis so far but I wasn't impressed at all. I thought it looked better with it off.

Everything looked overly shiny and clean.

Seems like every surface in that city got polished daily.
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I mean, that's what constant snowfall and ice does.
Heuheuehuehuheuhu
 
Thera

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
It is a very new thing. The fact that MM is already showing that level of RT reflections is impressive and a good sign for the future.
We have to wait to see it on a NG only game. Control will be a port so I am not expecting impressive stuff like the PC can be. The same for CP 2077.
elenarie said:
Honestly, people haven't really had a lot of time to work on their RT pipelines and tech. Performance will improve with time, as devs get more familiar about how to use RT in their games.

These early games are not indicative of the capabilities of all 3 machines, in regards to both RT and non-RT. :)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
.
 

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
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Aug 17, 2018
4,129
Obi Wan Jabroni said:
I hope they give us the option to turn it off if we want better performance.

For example, Watch Dog Legions has it but I'd gladly ditch it for a 60fps mode.
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I think people need to ditch the notion that RT is what is holding a game like this back from 60 FPS. Ubisoft has shown they aren't afraid to add a performance mode with something like Valhalla. Game performance is obviously very complex and just turning off one setting doesn't automatically net you 60 FPS.
 
Powerofthecloud

Powerofthecloud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,429
VanWinkle said:
It's also exciting to think about the improvements and optimizations that will be made as time goes on.

Look at this. In August (or whenever the demo was actually created, which very well could have been earlier than that), Insomniac's RT reflections looked like this in R&C Rift Apart:
0MNFcx.png


By November - launch - their RT reflection tech looked like this in Miles Morales:
0MNfHk.png



A huge improvement in realism, IMO. And that's just at launch.
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Doesn't this have to do more with the material the light is reflecting off? You would expect a more diffused look off a shiny floor than the reflection off water.
 
Calvin

Calvin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,584
I am guessing the best we are going to get at a reasonable performance level is what we see in Spider-Man - 60FPS@1440p with some compromises with enough RTX that you can actually see that it is there and it improves the quality of certain scenes and environments.

I have a hunch that anything that tries to use really extensive PC style RTX implementation (like Control, WD:Legion, etc) is going to be 30FPS and struggle until the consoles have DLSS-equivalent capabilities.

I still think it is very cool, just at this point something I would much rather do on PC.
 
VanWinkle

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,095
Powerofthecloud said:
Doesn't this have to do more with the material the light is reflecting off? You would expect a more diffused look off a shiny floor than the reflection off water.
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The materials for sure would make a difference in reflectivity, but that's actually a waxed floor on Miles Morales, not water. It actually should look similar on R&C. It's too...uniformly diffused there. Looks fake. On Miles you can see the granularity in the texture of the floor altering the reflectivity, like it would in real life. You can also see reflections distort along cracks, dips, and lines between tiles and windows like it would in real life, which is absent from R&C.
 
th1nk

th1nk

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,274
The Performance RT mode in Miles Morales flashed me hard, even after playing Demon's Souls. I did not expect an image quality and Ray Tracing to be this good. Hard for me to go back to 30 fps, even after being totally fine with 30 on PS4 Pro. The direct comparison by changing the modes in these two games is staggering. And the image quality is finally good enough so that it does not feel like a compromise. I hope many people choose this mode and Sony gets the feedback data (you know they get all the data from you, haha) that this mode is popular. The Ray Tracing capabilities seem good enough to me and developers like Naughty Dog will certainly use them wisely to get the best bang for the buck. Not every scene in every game needs Ray Tracing, Demon's Souls looks stunning even totally without Ray Tracing.
 

Obi Wan Jabroni

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Dec 14, 2020
1,678
DukeNukum said:
I think people need to ditch the notion that RT is what is holding a game like this back from 60 FPS. Ubisoft has shown they aren't afraid to add a performance mode with something like Valhalla. Game performance is obviously very complex and just turning off one setting doesn't automatically net you 60 FPS.
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I'll readily admit I'm not a programmer but as it has been explained to me RT consumes massive resources and would typically directly affect framerate so either winnowing it down or eliminating it entirely would probably facilitate a better framerate, yes?

Otherwise I'd love to know why Legion is only running at 30fps on next gen hardware. It's not a bad looking game but it's also a cross-generational title that isn't particularly impressive.

And yes, I'm sure it's more complicated than flipping a switch but RT does seem to sap a ton of resources.
 
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