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nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
It's a super cool SSD tech demo but for a gameplay feature this is annoying to be quite honest.

Wat? In what universe is being able to completely change your gaming environment, assets, physics, enemies, gameplay, AI, encounter design, bosses, NPC's, vehicles, lighting, weather and so on, in just 2 or so seconds, annoying? It's a revolutionary feature that has wide reaching, potentially incredible gameplay ramifications.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
I'm saying I've seen games worlds load in 8 seconds on a 90MB/s hard drive, so it's hard to be BLOWN AWAY by 2 second load times of game worlds. Very impressive? Absolutely. Faster than physically possible on a hard drive? No doubt about it. But as fast as I expected based on Cerny's presentation? No. That's all. I expected less than one second load times based on 8-22GB/s compressed data reads and games not typically needing to recall full allotted memory on spawn. And I'm sure some games will have that. I'm not suddenly unimpressed by the PS5's I/O systems. I'm just saying it's not as fast as I was expecting.

Do you acknowledge that Rift Apart is loading considerably more than GoT in less than 1/4 the time?
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,089
Do you acknowledge that Rift Apart is loading in considerably more than GoT in less than 1/4 the time?
Of course. I don't want to imply they're loading the same amount. I think something would be seriously wrong with the game if it loaded the same amount into RAM as GoT only four times faster. But I WAS expecting faster than we got.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Wat? In what universe is being able to completely change your gaming environment, assets, physics, enemies, gameplay, AI, encounter design, bosses, NPC's, vehicles, lighting, weather or whatever else, in just 2 or so seconds, annoying? It's a revolutionary feature that has wide reaching, potentially incredible gameplay ramifications.
Chill, I said it was a cool tech demo and that's what you're talking about here when listing all that. But going back and forth between different levels looks as annoying for gameplay as when my kids has the TV remote and can't decide what to watch.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
The PS5 ssd is only 5.5 gbps. thats good enough for instant loading in current gen games that only have access to 5.5 of the 8gb of ps4 ram, but next gen games will be utilizing up to 13.5 gb of ram with maybe 10 gb allocated for vram. and that means you will still need those 1-2 second loading screens.

thats the reason why the spiderman ssd demo loaded in just 0.8 seconds. its a current gen game that likely isnt even loading 4gb of data into vram.
But 5.5 is only the best case maximum. It largely depends how the data is structured and we don't have numbers for random read performance.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Game data is stored on the SSD compressed, it is decompressed as it is transferred to memory.
i see. so my next question is when exactly will the uncompressed data rate apply? once they uncompress the data and they dont need it anymore, are they storing it in the ssd somewhere or does it stay in the vram?
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
i see. so my next question is when exactly will the uncompressed data rate apply? once they uncompress the data and they dont need it anymore, are they storing it in the ssd somewhere or does it stay in the vram?
Generally you decompress to RAM while keeping the compressed data static on the SSD. You wouldn't and shouldn't be writing otherwise static decompressed data to an SSD every single time you are "done with it". Loading stuff to offline storage is an artefact of the Xbox/360 era where loading data from the DVD all the time was pointless when you had a mechanical hard-drive you could cache some of it to in advance (plus allowed for you to compress stuff on the DVD in a single copy without having to worry about seek times from random access).
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Chill, I said it was a cool tech demo and that's what you're talking about here when listing all that. But going back and forth between different levels looks as annoying for gameplay as when my kids has the TV remote and can't decide what to watch.

Switching between worlds and gameplay dimensions looks annoying? Really? Lol.

As a way to show dimension glitching following you destroying the dimension rift weapon or whatever, I think it looks spectacular, and is a really high octane, visually interesting, epic and grandiose way to showcase the affect.

In any case, the enjoyment of environmental switching really depends on what the back and forth is for and how it's implemented. Imagine fighting an epic boss in God of War 2 whilst time travelling between different realms or dimensions, one minute sliding down a pyramid and fighting amidst desert dunes with waves of sand flying everywhere, an instant later being smashed through some giant snow capped mountain and at the peak of a summit, and moments later duking it out in Greece, whilst being smashed through ancient ruins.

It's not just complete environmental switch ups either, but as NXGamers R&C Rift Apart analysis highlights, also the instant manipulation of current environments and geometry, plus the instant warping of enemy types between realms too. Think Titanfall 2 time switching, but in real time in the same space and time.

There are just so many potentially incredible uses of this new streaming speed and tech.
 
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nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
But 5.5 is only the best case maximum. It largely depends how the data is structured and we don't have numbers for random read performance.

We already have a typical figure though, which with compression is 9GB/s. Typical meaning the kind of bandwidth we can usually expect. Theoretical peak (compressed) was stated as 22GB/s.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,089
Los Angeles, CA
It's a little bit of both, probably.

Like, they still have to load in the new assets, and it's not actually instantaneous, so they married a cool visual with loading, and it gives the impression of being a seamless transition from one location to the next, and stupidly fast. It's incredibly impressive and looks amazing.
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
Chill, I said it was a cool tech demo and that's what you're talking about here when listing all that. But going back and forth between different levels looks as annoying for gameplay as when my kids has the TV remote and can't decide what to watch.

Yea, it's not going to be a constant occurrence for the entirety of the game. This is the introductory level (or close to it) that will basically introduce this mechanic and idea to the player. It is extremely likely that we won't be bouncing between planets in the traditional sense like previous titles, but bouncing between dimensions. What that means is: This is going to be the new travel mechanic, and I'm almost positive of that. Gone will be the days of walking to your ships launch pad, opening up a menu, and then choosing your desired planet from a list (and then watching a load screen). Instead, you'll probably equip the dimensionator, which will bring up a menu or HUD, and then you'll be able to jump near instantaneously between planets.

Go ahead and book mark that.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
I have a feeling Assassin's Creed would like this kind of seamless transition when fast traveling or when going present to past. They already have the simulation playable "loading screen".
 

McFly

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,742
To answer your question, yes it has a very short loading transition between levels. Less than 2 seconds to load but roughly 2 seconds to fully enter the new level.
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We are now counting "loading screens" by frames now.
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
there is a TON going on, on top of everything pretty much being LOD 0. there is a lot going on screen and everything looks to be their highest fidelity.
If the game would use the highest fidelity all the time it would be the most badly optimized AAA game in the last decade. The combination of the APU and SSD just make those transitions invisible, which is awesome.