Except Steam is like 10 times better than EGS.
Being complicit is a failing, especially if they're complicit by allowing that sort of content on their platform.
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Rami Ismail speaks out against EGS backlash, compares it to Ninja’s Mixer exclusivity
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Being complicit is a failing, especially if they're complicit by allowing that sort of content on their platform.
It's clear that every time someone says some variation of "I don't understand all the outrage", they've made zero attempts to actually understand. It's very tiring. No one ever comes up with any legitimate arguments, it's all strawmen like "it's just another launcher".
EGS constantly gives away some pretty great games for free.
Keep the stupid takes coming.
How hard is it to understand that Epic have been assholes to the customers? Taking games hostage, hving an inferior storefront that lacks lots of features (and when they announce them it gets delayed because of how uncompetent they are) are just scratching the surface for why people don't like epic.
Are you dumb for real? EGS exclusivity means exclusive for that store. I'd link you a good picture comparing "monopoly" and "competition". There is a reason why only GMG and Humble Bundle has EGS games, and only 2K games afaik.
When a game is non-exclusive it releases on many different platforms that exist in a state of competition. For a consumer this is good -- they may choose to purchase that game based on a criteria that is most important to them, for the lowest price they'll buy on Fanatical or GMG, if they value DRM free they can buy on GOG, if they are worried about possibly refunding the game they can buy it on Steam or Origin, if they want to support the developer with a larger cut they can get it on itch or EGS. When Epic comes into the picture and makes the game exclusive all those options but one disappear. They've warped the market, prices go up and user functionality goes down because Epic doesn't have to worry about competing with other storefronts features. It's not the launcher that people have an issue with, it's the corporation's assault on consumer choice.
It's really tiresome to see people making comments about this without bothering to understand or substantively engage with the legitimate complaints about it are. It feels intellectually lazy or dishonest really.
I don't think people generally argue that it's worse than console exclusives deals for 3td party games? I certainly see nobody saying that here currently. Nobody here is saying that deals like Rise of the Tomb Raider were great but EGS deals are bad. This is also not the same as exclusive games funded by a store or console holder, which are generally understood to not exist if not for their funding whole cloth.
As to why it's considered bad - Imagine if a game did still come to your preferred console but because company C decided to drop money on it, you had to use different friends lists and several features that are normally universal in the games you play weren't included. Say, cloud saves. You now have to launch the game from a different place too, unless you manually add it to the normal place.
Effectively somebody has paid money to make your experience worse in a few ways and better in none.
It sounds like Rami neither respects nor wants to listen to his audience with those kind of misrepresentations.
Dude's mostly right, at least in the broad strokes to which he's painting.
The reaction to the Ninja deal was mostly understanding, with people getting why he'd make a move for the sake of profit.
The reaction to ANY game signing an EGS deal is immediately toxic, to the point where it's verging on a forbidden subject for this board.
People are more willing to accept an individual making moves that are in their best interest, but don't seem to accept it when a game dev does the same thing.
Obviously, there's issues with EGS. But the bulk of criticism of Epic's platform is that it isn't Steam, and that it's unfair for Epic to pay for exclusivity rights.
The reaction to the Ninja deal was mostly understanding, with people getting why he'd make a move for the sake of profit.
The reaction to ANY game signing an EGS deal is immediately toxic, to the point where it's verging on a forbidden subject for this board.
People are more willing to accept an individual making moves that are in their best interest, but don't seem to accept it when a game dev does the same thing.
Obviously, there's issues with EGS. But the bulk of criticism of Epic's platform is that it isn't Steam, and that it's unfair for Epic to pay for exclusivity rights.
See the thread run it's course with multiple people still ignoring the financial component of those deal for the consumer, even with existing example showing that reality.
"it's free"
maybe it would help if "consumers" didn't yell at and harass the developers taking the deal
Just saying, a lot of bad shit is aimed at the people making games for ensuring their survival.
if you want to get mad, get mad at Ubisoft and TakeTwo, not small indie and studios trying to get enough money for the next project
This is absolutely and completely OBJECTIVELY false.... Like, you are just straight up lying right here. Lying and hoping that no one calls you on it. We could literally do a feature count and make this statement look dumb as hell in front of everyone.
Bold.
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Game releases on several storefronts and key sites, giving the customer choice = Steam is a monopoly and bad.
Game is blocked from Steam and releases only on EGS and whatever storefronts Epic makes a deal with, reducing customer choice = competition is good herp derp.
This is every fucking moron out there who starts their posts with 'i don't understand' and ends them with 'just another store front'.
Game is blocked from Steam and releases only on EGS and whatever storefronts Epic makes a deal with, reducing customer choice = competition is good herp derp.
This is every fucking moron out there who starts their posts with 'i don't understand' and ends them with 'just another store front'.
I'm not sure this is true. Most people are sympathetic with indie developers situation even if they're opposed to what Epic is trying to do with the PC market. I get it, releasing a game without certainty is scary and people are risk averse (although risk can be good sometimes) so they take the sure thing. That Ooblets guy is just getting called out for acting like a jerk not because he took the money.
Not a great comparison. But the longer this goes on, the more I take the developers' side in the EGS/Steam battle.
The developer is going to do what is best to them. And yesterday, there were literally people calling the Ooblets developers "human trash" because they went to EGS. It's over the top and toxic.
The developer is going to do what is best to them. And yesterday, there were literally people calling the Ooblets developers "human trash" because they went to EGS. It's over the top and toxic.
Steam has a toxic loli pedophile community that they did nothing to curb for years until their hand was forced by EU regulations last year.
Steam had active money laundering schemes taking place on their platform they did nothing to curb until authorities got involved.
They did nothing because these were lucrative revenue streams.
It's easier to find games you're looking for on EGS because it's not filled with shovelware.
EGS has better regional pricing options.
EGS is curated, like Steam used to be when it was better.
Valve hasn't had to have a real marketing strategy in years because they've had a De Facto monopoly of the PC gaming industry. I see a lot of people make the claim that Steam codes being sold on other stores make no money for Steam, but that's not true. Sure, there's no money on the front end, but all that does is trap developers and consumers in their ecosystem. Those other storefronts could never challenge them because without Steam, they'd dry up. Plus, every single Steam code sold requires the consumer to activate it on steam. That means every one of those customers must also download the Steam App, which has the Steam Store... So, it's all advertisement for Steam, even when a competitor is used.
Also, it's not a good look to assume that everyone who doesn't hate the EGS is a shill or a fanboy. I still use Steam, and I only occasionally use EGS. But when I have used it it's been a pleasant experience.
This is the very first time anyone has really tried to directly compete with them on the PC. Sure, there's Origin and Uplay, but those are primarily 1st party vehicles for their respective publishers. GOG exists, but CDPR have never stood up and actively tried to compete because they don't have the revenue to try. They'd get crushed by Valve if they considered them a threat. Remember that Valve went so far as to make their own linux distro and tried to talk gamers into changing operating systems because Microsoft launched their own game store.
To close, the exclusivity deals don't hurt the end user at all. They aren't like console exclusives where the customer is required to buy all new hardware if they want to play the game. Depending on your region, EGS could even offer better pricing(or the option to play the game at all.)
OP
OP
Sure, I concede the point. But as you point out, Steam is far better as a storefront in spite of the not insignificant problems it suffers from.
Are we all seriously gonna ignore that the EGS deal with Ooblets is significantly less about an indie dev securing a future and significantly more about a developer intentionally starting a flame war and insulting people even if they have no ability to buy from EGS?
Because he's only right when he agrees with you of course
Just want to put it out there that there are marketing companies that specializes in promoting one product and critiquing their competitors on various forms of social media, including popular message boards. They generally are forbidden to say anything negative about their client's product, and at worst, will only state how it's "different" then their competitors. I know people that work in this industry and it's becoming pretty lucrative since you don't need permanent employees and can contract most of the work out.
One of the few people I have muted on Twitter
Because some people I follow always like or retweet those stupid hot takes
A Mixer sub is $5.99
^^
Because some people I follow always like or retweet those stupid hot takes
Well a Twitch sub is $4.99
A Mixer sub is $5.99
^^
Good to see some backlash against this dude finally.
He floods the game dev community airwaves because of his outreach via Twitter etc, and because of that being an echo chamber other experienced people who state a differing view to his are usually derided or not given time. It's like his opinion is taken like gospel on many occasions.
He floods the game dev community airwaves because of his outreach via Twitter etc, and because of that being an echo chamber other experienced people who state a differing view to his are usually derided or not given time. It's like his opinion is taken like gospel on many occasions.
All of this is inherently anecdotal, but I feel like the baseline reaction of absolutely any game announcing EGS exclusivity is "Guess I'm waiting until it's on Steam." That doesn't exactly scream sympathy to me. It's fine to wait and play it on your preferred launcher. But the immediacy with which people declare their boycott makes it seem 100% predetermined, and completely separated from the choices made by the dev in regards to financial stability.
Again, this is just how I've been reading it.
Yes the game I am refering to specifically has been reported in the thousands but they arent removing it. Which is the whole issue I was talking about. The gamewasnt hidden from the start, not sure if it was Valve or the devs who hid it in the end but the problem is that Valve did not act on the issue.
Uh, it's actually the exact opposite. EGS results higher game prices and locks out certain currencies from purchases.
What game?
it's not the first time this guy says something dumb on twitter, he does this all the time.
don't even know why he gets so much attention or why he feels the need to give his bad takes on every hot topic discussion. that comparison he makes in the OP is so bad i don't even how to respond to that. it's such an obvious apple and oranges comparison. at this point he's just a professional corporate apologist.
don't even know why he gets so much attention or why he feels the need to give his bad takes on every hot topic discussion. that comparison he makes in the OP is so bad i don't even how to respond to that. it's such an obvious apple and oranges comparison. at this point he's just a professional corporate apologist.
I think this is where some people get confused why a lot of people are against EGS. If EGS was just another store like Origin, uPlay, GoG etc. that sold 1st party games exclusively as well as non-exclusive 3rd party games no one would have an issue. The thing is EGS isn't in a vacuum, it's owned by Epic who are doing everything they can to force people into their ecosystem by buying exclusive rights to 3rd party games.
What you have to understand about a lot (not all but most of the ones I know being heavily into the Linux and FOSS community) of PC gamers is that we're PC gamers because we like the inherent open nature of the PC platform, it's why I switched from consoles many years ago and it's one of the major reasons why most people I know play on PC. The platform and the culture it has cultivated over the past several decades is directly opposed to walled gardens, the concept is anathema to the open nature of the platform. Any time it's been tried before (like GFWL) the PC community has done all it can to slap it down, which in large part is what is happening now. It's certainly why I'm boycotting Epic and the EGS, because I think it's bad for the PC platform and has the potential to do harm to a hobby that I love and am heavily invested in, both financially and emotionally.
There are other reasons I dislike EGS but none of them are to the point where I would be upset at the platform existing if not for that one major reason.
None of this means you individually have to care about that, I'm not trying to force others to care about the same things I do but at least understanding WHY a lot of the people that are up in arms are that way shouldn't be that difficult.
I've viewed this as people voicing their displeasure with Epic rather than an attack on the developer accepting an exclusivity deal. It makes sense if they view Epic as the bad actor in the transaction.
I'm not gonna fault anyone for taking a fat stack of cash in this economy, but don't try and sugar coat by saying you're fostering competition.
Keep the stupid takes coming.
How hard is it to understand that Epic have been assholes to the customers? Taking games hostage, hving an inferior storefront that lacks lots of features (and when they announce them it gets delayed because of how uncompetent they are) are just scratching the surface for why people don't like epic.
Very hard when you are trying to court Epic into buying your next game, these other indies defending Epic's practices are being disingenuous.
So he is interested in having a deal with them to get exclusivity?
It depends entirely on the region. That's why I said it depends on the region. But Epic is available in regions that Steam doesn't support at all...
I'd be perfectly fine with EGS if they didn't end up buying (permanent) exclusivity.
I'm not against them out of some general principle, I did end up getting Control for 40₺ from them in their infamous huge sale, which is probably close to being 10% of what I'd pay for any other high-profile game on the market. That said, since apparently EGS struck a deal with the local distributors here as well, a lot of other AAA games are at their usual obscene prices (350+₺). If EGS pursued far better regional pricing in my country and stopped using a payment processor that takes a cut for the sale, I'd gladly do business with them.
Uplay, Origin and GOG generally serve to fill a particular purpose (first party games, or old games restored to function on new systems). EGS can't figure out what it wants to be, because people won't want to participate in an ecosystem they feel they've been forced into by Epic's moneyhatting and that's precisely what happens when you try to form your brand around exclusives for your launcher that have been advertised on other platforms only to be delisted.
Steam generally does quite well at being a general purpose storefront for PC games so I don't really know how one could come up with a viable competitor that can differentiate itself.
I'm not against them out of some general principle, I did end up getting Control for 40₺ from them in their infamous huge sale, which is probably close to being 10% of what I'd pay for any other high-profile game on the market. That said, since apparently EGS struck a deal with the local distributors here as well, a lot of other AAA games are at their usual obscene prices (350+₺). If EGS pursued far better regional pricing in my country and stopped using a payment processor that takes a cut for the sale, I'd gladly do business with them.
Uplay, Origin and GOG generally serve to fill a particular purpose (first party games, or old games restored to function on new systems). EGS can't figure out what it wants to be, because people won't want to participate in an ecosystem they feel they've been forced into by Epic's moneyhatting and that's precisely what happens when you try to form your brand around exclusives for your launcher that have been advertised on other platforms only to be delisted.
Steam generally does quite well at being a general purpose storefront for PC games so I don't really know how one could come up with a viable competitor that can differentiate itself.
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This is a worse take than anything Rami Ismail has ever posted.
Because every console manufacturer that has had a stranglehold on the market has tried to fuck everyone else over? Monopolies are bad. Competition breeds innovation in this industry.
Right, but the toxicity seen in this where it affects the players much less is way higher. Maybe it's because people lack empathy? I'm down with developers who are in an incredibly high risk line of work having more stability to bring me an experience I want in exchange for opening a different game launcher.
Anyone offended by that blog post is the problem.
I don't think this thread is helping anyone, and I don't think we should keep making threads out of tweets that aren't specifically newsworthy. This is basically a reaction thread. Sorry.
I don't know what he's interested in, but it feels like a reasonable assumption to make.
It hurts my ability to use the store and game client of my preference. For some people they just want to have their digital library in one place, for others Steam offers many improvements to EGS that affects their enjoyment or usability of the games they play. The fact you thing that is an irrelevant thing or just a minimal inconvenience, it doesn't matter at all, is a thing it hinders people experience on gaming in a PC.
So yeah, exclusivity affects the consumer.
You have some interesting points but you'll need sources for some (money laundering, for example).
That said, you have pretty shitty ones too that need explaining. What are the "better regional pricing options"? Last time I checked, it went one way or the other, some games not being sold at all in certain regions, some being at risible prices or high depending of where it's sold.
Why being curated to the point of not allowing anything if it's sold on Steam a good thing? How about the thousands of Indie game that managed to be sold on Steam that deserved it that won't ever go in the EGS because Epic don't care? Why do you care if X shitty game is sold on Steam if it allows games like Undertale or Hollow Knight to exist? Most of the bad games on Steam won't appear on the homepage past their release day, only the top will rise in the charts and stay visible.
For the "De Facto monopoly", it's usually what happens when you're the first and don't have any competition for a long time. It's normal for a Steam key to be activated on Steam. Uplay keys are activated on Uplay, Origin keys on Origin. The difference is, Steam allows for a developper to sold Steam keys. The number of EGS games that can be bought elsewhere than EGS is low, at best. It allows them to have monopoly on the price, which is an anti-consumer practice. It hurts the end user as they don't have a choice on where they buy the product and in what range of price. If you're in a region where the pricing is high, you get fucked.
It's not about being a shill or a fanboy, but right now, the main arguments FOR the EGS is "you're just a Steam fan" or "it's just another launcher", which is clearly not the case. There are a shit ton of trouble behind EGS, which is why people are so vocal about it. Is it a reason to become toxic? No, of course. But as long as each side decide to be an ass and not take into account what the other have to say, it won't go anywhere.
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