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Oct 25, 2017
30,028
Tampa

WASHINGTON — The House Judiciary Committee on Friday said it was asking a federal judge to unseal grand jury secrets related to Robert S. Mueller III's investigation, saying it would use the court filing to make the most explicit declaration yet that lawmakers are weighing whether to impeach President Trump.

In a significant escalation, Representative Jerrold Nadler of New York, the Democratic chairman of the committee, said at a news conference that the application to the court will declare that the panel needs access to Mr. Mueller's grand-jury evidence — such as witness testimony — to decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment against the president.

"Because Department of Justice policies will not allow prosecution of a sitting president, the United States House of Representatives is the only institution of the federal government that can now hold President Trump accountable for these actions," Mr. Nadler quoted the legal filing as telling the judge, Beryl A. Howell, who supervised Mr. Mueller's grand jury.

Referring to the part in the Constitution that gives Congress the power to impeach and remove a president, the application continues, he said: "To do so, the House must have access to all the relevant facts and consider whether to exercise all its full Article I powers, including a constitutional power of the utmost gravity — recommendation of articles of impeachment."

Still, his account of the pending filing, which he said would be filed Friday afternoon, stopped short of explicitly declaring that it has formally opened an impeachment inquiry.
The long-awaited filing comes two days after Mr. Mueller testified before Congress for the first time about the findings of his 22-month investigation into Russian election interference and possible obstruction of justice by Mr. Trump. Now Democrats who control the panel are seeking to add more evidence to the trove of information they are collecting about the case.
 

gutshot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Toscana, Italy
It makes sense that they should have access to all of the evidence. At the moment, impeaching is almost like asking a grand jury to recommend charges against someone when only seeing half of the evidence. (To be sure, that half is more than enough, in this case.)
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
There seems to be a growing division within Dems between the ones who are clearly pushing for impeachment and Nancy Pelosi and her peeps who aren't. This seems more like Nadler is in the former group and is doing this to put more pressure on her
 

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
Why weren't they doing this months ago?

Better late than never, but with shit like this? Not much better...
 

Flex1212

Member
Jul 12, 2019
4,142
Barr really fucked us all with this shit. He needs to face some consequences come 2021 when this dotard is out of office.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
We're never getting to the fireworks factory.

giphy.gif
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,666
They're slow-walking the impeachment inquiry rollout, but they are largely running out of time.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
As I said before, saying no impeachment is not the same as investigation ends. No impeachment means congress will continue to operate while the investigation is ongoing.
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,927
If they don't want to call it an impeachment inquiry but in the end it does the same thing I am fine with that. All a 'formal' impeachment inquiry does is create single unified plan between committees of underlying allegations to probe, leaving each committee to pursue based on that criteria, this just does the same thing except each committee is pursuing their own end of the road instead of a unified one and doesn't require full approval of the house to get it started (thus bypassing the 30+ never impeach trump dems) this is what I was hoping they would do from the start. Its the equivalent of a teaser for a teaser trailer and yet somehow has all the main parts of it in it.

Also I am glad they are finally pursuing the grand jury testimony's directly. This is ultimately what lead to some the biggest underlying evidence in the Nixon impeachment investigation and they can petition the judge and jury in each case directly to vote to release info if its a matter of public importance. Aside from a few choice judges (looking at you Manafort Virginia Judge) the judicial system has largely been almost activist level willing to go after DoJ or Trump to make sure more info is publicly released. Contempt charge against Barr after trying to work in good faith should hopefully expedite the process of getting this info. They also need to do this now, ahead of primary and general election so it doesn't look like they are trying to intentional sabotage an election over the info.
 

FILE_ID.DIZ

Banned
Jun 1, 2019
558
Fort Wayne
What a surprise that the complaints have changed from "they won't do anything" to "it won't matter" and "not soon enough".

The important thing is that you've found a way to shift everything the right is doing wrong onto the hated Democrats. Yay defeatism!
 

Christian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
If they know that there's even more damning stuff in the grand jury testimony, kicking the can down the road until they can get their hands on it, officially, makes sense.
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,927
If they know that there's even more damning stuff in the grand jury testimony, kicking the can down the road until they can get their hands on it, officially, makes sense.

Grand Jury stuff was always the goal, its the literal underlying criminal evidence used in the court system, but its also by far the hardest to get both in the amount of time it takes to petition for it (the petition is supposed to go through the DoJ on congresses behalf normally) and the severity of need in order the jury and the judge to sign off on its release. DoJ prosecurotrs for instance can't release that info to congress, even if they wanted to, without getting a sign off from the judge and jury overseeing the case. It was originally the biggest sticking point in the Mueller report that there was some underlying evidence that was tied up in the grand jury system that would require a formal petition to that grand jury in order to release, the key difference is Barr didn't care or didn't want to even make that petition because its clear he is now protecting the defendant rather then assisting in the prosecution thus why among many reasons he has been held in contempt for not doing his due dilligence in getting the unredacted Mueller report to congress.

Basically Grand Jury testimony is end game, its what you go to get when you have everything else in order, but now they have go to it get evidence because the rest of the DoJ is firmly stonewalling their right to conduct oversight. Going for grand Jury without that info is like taking a sledge hammer to a door when you fail to get a locksmith out to see what is on the otherside.
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
I wonder how much of an impact Barr basically saying "go petition a court for it" would have on a court's decision to release this. I remember him talking like that early after the Mueller Report came out.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
What's the likelihood they actually get the materials though? And when do they get them?


Finally does this information become public?
 

mikehaggar

Developer at Pixel Arc Studios
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,379
Harrisburg, Pa
How was Starr able to recommend impeaching Clinton, but Mueller isn't allowed to based on department policy? I'm genuinely asking... did Department policy change since the Clinton thing or was Starr not working on behalf of the same Department as Mueller is?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
How was Starr able to recommend impeaching Clinton, but Mueller isn't allowed to based on department policy? I'm genuinely asking... did Department policy change since the Clinton thing or was Starr not working on behalf of the same Department as Mueller is?
IIRC, the type of structure Starr was setup under independent of DoJ was allowed to expire in the late '90s or early '00s because of all the Starr bullshit.