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Racist Stereotypes in Smash Bros. Ultimates Spirits Mode
- Thread starter Deleted member 4976
- Start date
You're an ignorant racist. You might not think so but you are.
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He was responding to a specific poster saying they should remove the Dark Pit alt because it was dark skin, not the Villager one.
Yeah, Mr-Joker's post is kind of muddying the waters of this thread.
Things pretty much everyone in the thread agree are problematic:
- Mr Sandman & Dee Jay spirit fights using the Kongs as their reps
- Tac's spirit fights using the black Villager alt
- Dark Pit having an alt color that gives him a darker skin tone
Not on the other example.
As I said I missed some of the info in the Villager one. Even then I think that case is not as bad as DK and Diddy and should not be changed.
Well it's not up to you. It doesn't bother me personally, but I'm not gonna dismiss it for that reason.
Yeah the sandman one was the only one i caught. I was super surprised and in disbelief/ denial at first. I wasn't trying to be that guy, but i was like this is pretty offensive (as a black man). Especially how our race has been comically associated with monkeys. Could've easily just had Litte Mac instead.
Somewhat related but Paz Ortega's spirit is just.....horrible....
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Also from one of Sakurai's previous games in case people want to say its just a coincedence and people are just looking for controversy.
I'm not necessarily saying these were intentional, but its not exactly impossible.
Yikes
Honest question.
Im asking to be educated here. I'm hoping I'm not moderated again for this, because I'm trying to use this opportunity to learn.
What would establish something like this as racist? What I mean I guess is, that I always understood that if POC deem something as racist/harmful, that its racist and harmful. Non-POC can certainly come to support POC in threads like these, but I was always under the impression that POC were the ones who made the decision on what is/isn't racist.
I've seen some POC in this thread saying its not something to get worked up over, and I've also seen them say its harmful and problematic.
So if there isn't a consensus between POC, how do we truly know what is and isn't harmful, considering a lot of this stuff can be interpreted subjectively.
Im asking to be educated here. I'm hoping I'm not moderated again for this, because I'm trying to use this opportunity to learn.
What would establish something like this as racist? What I mean I guess is, that I always understood that if POC deem something as racist/harmful, that its racist and harmful. Non-POC can certainly come to support POC in threads like these, but I was always under the impression that POC were the ones who made the decision on what is/isn't racist.
I've seen some POC in this thread saying its not something to get worked up over, and I've also seen them say its harmful and problematic.
So if there isn't a consensus between POC, how do we truly know what is and isn't harmful, considering a lot of this stuff can be interpreted subjectively.
Deciding if portraying black men as apes is a racist stereotype can't be interpreted subjectively. It is a simple fact. Because that racist stereotype has been used for decades to discriminate both subtly and obviously.
This would be very easy to find out if you were to simply Google "black people, ape, racist " or any combination of these words. It would be beyond easy to educate yourself about the topic. There has to be some baseline established to have a discussion. You can't discuss math if people disagree on what the number 2 means because they haven't actually ever done any math.
Just to get you started: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/opinion/roseanne-racism-blacks-apes.html
This one is literally you making a problem out of nothing for reasons I dont know.Yeah Smash has a big problem in that department as one of Dark Pit alt costume has darker skin, it's the third one with the black outfit and red scarf;
Apparently it's suppose to be a reference to Magnus who has darker skin but still that's pretty bad as you can't just darken a white character skin and call it a reference.
Truly highlights how out of touch Nintendo is and how the localization team failed to catch them.
Growing up and watching cartoons, you would think black people, and almost all African people were like that. And I am not talking niche cartoons, but looney tunes, Disney... Western Culture definitely played a bit role expanding such racist stereotypes.
Growing up and watching cartoons, you would think black people, and almost all African people were like that. And I am not talking niche cartoons, but looney tunes, Disney... Western Culture definitely played a bit role expanding such racist stereotypes.
Very true and very sad at the same time
I agree. As long as they change it, I can let this go. Regardless of how this got through it's what they're going to do after that will really tell us where they stand regarding this issue.
I'd say it depends on the situation and severity of it all. I do feel there's credence to someone not being a POC and being offended. I feel that shows empathy if not anything else in regards to making an effort to understand what is wrong here and how would someone feel if they were in our shoes in this scenario which in my opinion just shows as good a will in understanding what we do go through as POC and just having a better understanding of our culture. I personally can only respect that.
Every POC has their levels of tolerance though, What would offend me as a POC wouldn't offend another POC and vice versa but i think there's some things that are just flat out unacceptable and this is one of those IMO. I'm honestly not SUPER offended/triggered by it, but I am mildly offended to the point that i definitely think it should be changed.
While i can see the thought process (specifically with Sandman and the association being that DK ends up being the boss right after in the related game punch out) as a POC (on the lesser more lenient end of generally being offended by racist things mind you) I can see the offense in this. Sure it's not necessarily beating you over the head with the racist tones, but the correlation can be easily made based off our history alone. Out of the 74 characters in the roster, you choose a common racist representation of a black character in multiple instances? I was only aware of sandman, but didn't even realize the other cases which in turn adds more credence to this being some underlying offensive message (or a form of ignorance from a cultural standpoint which i'll give them the benefit of the doubt at the least).
So in general when it comes to anything racist you would avoid as much as possible to do anything that has been proven to be considered racist in the past is the best thing to go by.
Thank you very much for this response. This is the kind of thing I was looking for.
Oh, well, as a brazilian, we have Blanka. The good old tropical monster stereotype. And in Ryu's classic mode he's represented by a green DK in a jungle setting. Cause yes, Brazil is one big jungle and everyone is a monkey monster.
Can I say Smash is racist? I wouldn't go that far, but is it fucked up? Yes, it has been for a long time...
Can I say Smash is racist? I wouldn't go that far, but is it fucked up? Yes, it has been for a long time...
Probably not it's still the holiday season, so don't expect anything from them until early to mid-January.
Tbf this one is more of SF fault than smash. Still it would be better if it was a giant green pikachu
What? But Smash is emulating Blanka in this case, not any particular country. I'd say a green Donkey Kong fits the bill out of all characters the most.
Nope but the best thing we can do is make sure this the first thing they see when they come back from vacation
No, but I wish they would. It needs to be addressed ASAP. It's a PR nightmare that might affect sales
Agreed.
I mean I don't have a Switch but I am considering if I will get one in the future but things like this just make think about skipping the game if I ever grab one. Hopefully, they do the right thing as soon as the holiday is over.
I don't even know how many people are aware of this, to me the discussion seems to be limited to this site.
This is why I asked above because I haven't seen it anywhere else.
I recall seeing the Game and Watch stuff from before launch but nothing about this.
I understand the issue and don't disagree with it to some extent but the reactions here are not on par with everyone else. Not even on reddit after doing a quick search.
Yeah Smash has a big problem in that department as one of Dark Pit alt costume has darker skin, it's the third one with the black outfit and red scarf;
Apparently it's suppose to be a reference to Magnus who has darker skin but still that's pretty bad as you can't just darken a white character skin and call it a reference.
Truly highlights how out of touch Nintendo is and how the localization team failed to catch them.
Maybe I'm missing something but there is nothing bad in what you linked......
A few Nintendo sites picked it up, but the story sadly didn't gain mainstream attention (likely due to the timing of this thread in relation to Christmas). Not even GameXplain did a video, though Ash Paulsen voiced his distaste for the racism in question.
What line-up, the roster? If so, there weren't many options in terms of PoC representation back in December 2015 (when the base roster was finalized).
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing concerns surrounding depictions of harmful stereotypes
its the fastest selling Switch game, and the fastest in the franchise..... but this foolishness is going to drive people to return it in droves? (How else will it affect sales... because we cant be delusional enough to think this will cause people to not buy the game... right???)
Are there any other characters with jump kicks and a white and yellow colour alt that could better represent Dee Jay?
Same with Sandman, who would be a better fit than DK on the roster
For Tac, its pretty clear that they choose that alt because the colours of the shirt and shorts are close to the same colour of the garb that Tac wears...
If they use that same villager for Ninji, would that also be "racist"??
This is only "racist" imo if we are looking to be offended
Exactly, Sakurai didn't have very many options (if any, Elma aside) at the time.
Who do you suggest they add exactly if your referring to the roster?
It's an issue with games as a whole that Nintendo seems to be slowly addressing but Sakurai really didn't have many viable options in the past.
Of the forums I visit only ResetEra complained about these spirits so it's not really a loss of sales for them.
Even some POC users said they don't really care whether they're going to be patched or not. Sadly I don't think they will.
Lol
I don't disagree that it should be patched, but if it affected sales it would literally be such a tiny amount as to be statistically impossible to notice.
It doesn't seem like it's gotten any attention beyond here. I don't mean to diminish us, but it would need a lot more attention to qualify as a "PR nightmare".
Was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't expect a response until awareness of this gets more widespread. And also for NOA employees to come back from holiday vacation.
See that's the thing, and I am sorry if I am sounding dismissive since I see the issue, but I think a lot of people just don't care.
It doesn't seems to be a PR nightmare. It doesn't seem to be deemed important enough for them to act on it ASAP.
It just is an unfortunate stereotype that may just stay that way. I have only seen the issue be so big here on ERA which is rare since these things pop up on many sites if they are big enough.
But the thing is I sincerely doubt that even those that really bothered by it will return the game a shun it.