Well this is the same forum where majority voted that the biggest blunder of this gen was MS revealing the Xbox One instead of a white supremacist showing his true colors.
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Racist Stereotypes in Smash Bros. Ultimates Spirits Mode
- Thread starter Deleted member 4976
- Start date
Well this is the same forum where majority voted that the biggest blunder of this gen was MS revealing the Xbox One instead of a white supremacist showing his true colors.
There's been so many white supremacists showing their true colors I literally can't tell who you're talking about in this case. Who is this and when and where did Era voted on this? Apparently I missed all that.
In universe DK is the champion of Punch-Out so he's the apt choice for the Punch-Out champ spirit.
Villager could easily be changed to the yellow and black shirt villager. Doesn't change the fight and in some ways, matches the colours better. Like many have said, this may have been an oversight due to the alt changing during development.
The Diddy fight seems to be a choice based on his side-B move since that's part of the fights special conditions.
Yes, there are unfortunate connections, but it seems to just be unfortunate coincidence with zero malicious intent. Spirits are mostly designed to reflect their nature rather than skin tone. Balrog's spirit is represented by Little Mac for example since boxer = boxer rather than using the dark skinned Villager alt (which could work as Villager has a boxing attack).
Villager could easily be changed to the yellow and black shirt villager. Doesn't change the fight and in some ways, matches the colours better. Like many have said, this may have been an oversight due to the alt changing during development.
The Diddy fight seems to be a choice based on his side-B move since that's part of the fights special conditions.
Yes, there are unfortunate connections, but it seems to just be unfortunate coincidence with zero malicious intent. Spirits are mostly designed to reflect their nature rather than skin tone. Balrog's spirit is represented by Little Mac for example since boxer = boxer rather than using the dark skinned Villager alt (which could work as Villager has a boxing attack).
Still objectively a bad look is all people are trying to say
Quality™ Responses here
While playing through the World of Light I always thought that a character chosen for a spirit (when I knew it) was based on the spirits fighting style. And I am honestly not sure what is "worse" here:
- A huge boxer getting represented by a character that is also a huge brute and fights mainly with his hands who also happens to be a monkey
- A monkey representing a black character, ignoring whether his moveset best represents said character
I mean, why does no one care about Zangief being represented by Inciniroar? Does that mean he is a hairy beast? Or was that chosen because Inciniroar used Wrestling moves?
- A huge boxer getting represented by a character that is also a huge brute and fights mainly with his hands who also happens to be a monkey
- A monkey representing a black character, ignoring whether his moveset best represents said character
I mean, why does no one care about Zangief being represented by Inciniroar? Does that mean he is a hairy beast? Or was that chosen because Inciniroar used Wrestling moves?
A finally someone with a refined palate and eye for quality and after my own heart. I'm sorry I got fed up responding to that comment for like the 3rd time. Realized this wasn't important and checked out by writing yikes. Im just bummed out about that sir moogle post and decided trying to write anything scathing or witty wasn't worth it and I can't delete a post
That's what I thought they were going for too when I saw the spirit in the game, but I also thought it could be seen as... problematic. This thread proves it.
I don't think they had malicious intents, just... a combination of unfortunate things.
A series of unfortunate events?
I wish I could be good at Punch Out. Played it many times on Nes and Super Nes, played a bit on Wii too. I'm just terrible. I played Super Punch Out again yesterday and just couldn't beat Piston Hurricane in the Minor Circuit after trying like ten times. I'm pathetic ><
But I love Little Mac, the designs and the music so it's frustrating ^^;
I found an arcade with punch out. Felt like I was throwing money away so I read up and went back it was gone, there hasn't been a punch out arcade game I. Over 30 yeeeeeaaaarrrssss
It was a gaming matter because Palmer Luckey was in charge of Oculus Rift at the time.
Doesn't matter if it's deliberate or not. It's an incredibly problematic image either way. Hope Nintendo notices this and patches it out quick.
inb4 "YOU'RE the REAL racists for noticing racist stereotypes.....
Folks acting like they actually ever had to defend this. Smh.
You never did. You're probably not Nintendo PR. The company isn't your friend, nor are they paying you.
You reaction was to do so though. That's how you respond to an accusation of racism.
You're like console warriors but instead of whether or not Genesis had superior power or not, your opponent is the dignity of black people being reflected in games.
Era gonna Angry Jack.
You never did. You're probably not Nintendo PR. The company isn't your friend, nor are they paying you.
You reaction was to do so though. That's how you respond to an accusation of racism.
You're like console warriors but instead of whether or not Genesis had superior power or not, your opponent is the dignity of black people being reflected in games.
Era gonna Angry Jack.
So I noticed dk and villager right off the bat and went yikes even though I knew what they were going for it's still an insensitive look. Diddy I missed but that's likely to me quickly going though the SF stuff.
I mean it's obviously not intentional but I understand why people are upset. Nintendo actively removed racial stereotypes before the game even came out and gave Villager different skin colors as a method of inclusion. People have already given plenty of examples of how and why certain fighters are chosen for Spirits, it's not always looks.
To be honest if I was on the localization team I would've definitely spoken up if I saw the DJ/Diddy spirit, but wouldn't have thought twice about DK Sandman due to Punch Out Wii.
To be honest if I was on the localization team I would've definitely spoken up if I saw the DJ/Diddy spirit, but wouldn't have thought twice about DK Sandman due to Punch Out Wii.
Noticed all the of them and definitely can see how and why people would be pissed. When I played the Diddy and DK battles the (hopefully unintentional) racism was really overt to me. I also had to take into account Japanese people made this and the history of these stereotypes might be lost on them. I can't see Nintendo not fixing this as they were really quick to apologize and fix the G&W Native American issue.
But some people sincerely don't believe that it's an example of racism. To assume people think so only from a desire to defend a corporation is a premature judgement.
I don't think people are racist for pointing it out. I think people are more surprised or incredulous that such an association (between black peoples and thieves or monkeys) is made so quickly. As in, my first thought when seeing those battles was not "they used the Kongs because the spirits are black." I just don't ascribe to the notion that any depiction of black people as thieves is inherently racist or that the Kongs simply cannot be used to represent any spirit that happens to be black. Monkeys is obviously problematic if we're talking about appearance, but I think those character choices were legitimately picked based on their moves. Would it have been forward thinking for Nintendo to see that some may have taken offense and chosen other characters? Yes, but I don't think it's a mistake or a moral lapse for them to use those characters, and like I said before I wouldn't consider it a mistake to leave it unchanged either even though it would be a nice gesture.
Cultural standards? This is like the go to excuse for anything Japan does that's sketchy. You aren't interested in a nuanced discussion, you're just interested in making excuses. What's really disrespectful is doing that specifically in a thread like this.
The flood of "those who call this racist are the real racists!" and "ARGH people just want attention/To be offended!!" is stunning. Not a drop of irony or critical thinking.
I had to have a double take when I saw the Sandman spirit.
The problematic aspects of the Tac fight completely flew over my head though, due to being unfamiliar with the character.
These need to be patched ASAP, just like the feather was.
You know, between these and the feather, I wonder if the developers get any feedback from Nintendo's localizing branches.
Like any at all.
The problematic aspects of the Tac fight completely flew over my head though, due to being unfamiliar with the character.
These need to be patched ASAP, just like the feather was.
You know, between these and the feather, I wonder if the developers get any feedback from Nintendo's localizing branches.
Like any at all.
Dude take a couple of hours to read up on the history of racism in America, and i'm not talking about some diet whitewash account of it. I'm talking about people using black babies as alligator bait racism, i talking about black people getting dragged through the streets stabbed beaten hung from a tree and burned alive racism. And then come realize that the same hate that caused those whites to do those things to blacks, is the same hate that causes them to look at black people as apes and thieves. And after that, I hope you realized that this type of shit can't stand, we just can't let it slide.
I'm surprised this made it into the game. Pretty disappointing, hopefully they're patch it out. As a game that many children will receive and play, having this type of imagery is really inappropriate and unexceptable.
Deejay is a kickboxer. Ken could've worked well, or even Captain Falcon.
Nope. Characters like Eddy Gordo, Elena, Christie Montiero, Bob Wilson are practitioners. Dee Jay is just a kickboxer.
I don't see how people could recognize Dee Jay but think Sandman was okay under any circumstance. I also feel DK is a lousy representation of his abilities: there's zero shared attacks between them and the secret boss thing is a really weak connection.
If there's any Punch-Out fighter who absolutely should've been represented by a giant Mac (other than Giga Mac), it definitely should've been Mr. Sandman. The first and latest final boss, the guy with no gimmicks, the Champion Goliath to the Challenger David, etc.
I'm not sure they'll respond today considering that it's Christmas.
I know but we could let some industry insiders and journalists know.
Tbh the "DK makes sense because he was a boss in punch out" argument sounds like a smoke screen.
Probably not a lot, if any, since there's a bit of a difference between the two. The problem of these ones is the unfortunate associations rather than depicting an actual racist charicature. I don't think you'll find many people here that don't agree that the Fire graphic or, say, that Kirby Super Star boss were problems.
The end result is ultimately offensive either way though, and if enough people are really hurt by these spirits then I hope Nintendo addresses it. But I can understand why some wouldn't put these spirit fights on the same level as actual charicatures.
Most spirits in World of Light mode have obscure references. It's not only this one.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing concerns surrounding offensive stereotypes, inflammatory drive-by post, account still in junior phase
Or maybe DK was an actual character in a Punch Out game, and some people just don't really know what they're talking about, so some are just making snap assumptions without have all of the information?
They won't do anything right now. Holidays, you know. But when they get back, this needs to be rolled out pretty quick.
Even if it can't be rolled out quick, they should at least send out a message to the effect of "We're sorry that we didn't catch this and we're working on a fix."
To be more precise, his following moves are punches (source):
- His neutral attack (A) which is a hook then an uppercut
- His neutral special (B) which is a powerful wind-up punch
- His Final Smash which is a rapid succession of multiple punches
I think Blanka is technically Caucasian, but I'd struggle to call him white.
Since when was the last time they did such a thing? This would be unprecedented behavior on their part.
Someone can fetch me an example, but I can't recall it.
Would be a good move though, I agree.
Oh yeah, no doubt will be patched. They are pretty good about that stuff.
