An overwhelming majority of the black spirits are represented favorably. It's three out of two dozen that are arguably problematic.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Racist Stereotypes in Smash Bros. Ultimates Spirits Mode
- Thread starter Deleted member 4976
- Start date
Well, I don't know that "favorably" is an apt qualifier, but this is also what I mean.
I didn't spot this myself as I don't usually think to look for this stuff personally but I did cross my mind that this COULD happen in the game at some point. Low and behold it has.
Im sure it'll be patched out fairly promptly.
Im sure it'll be patched out fairly promptly.
Your post was worded in a way that suggested these were the only black spirits.
I feel like those actually defending this are few & far between, unless you mean outside of ResetEra. Even for those of us here who recognize how things led to how they are now, we agree that they're not a good look & must be fixed ASAP.
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory false equivalencies surrounding bigotry and intolerance; history of severe infractions.
I doubt the vast vast majority of people noticed this, so the fact that these racial stereotypes are being propagated is because of this thread. The impact of this situation is like drawing a penis on a wall in a newly built house before the paint job, and then painting it over. It's there but why does it matter at that point (although this seems unintentional).
Yeah, I know, but it's also not what I meant. Which is why I clarified.
Tac having Villager as a spirit is due to Villager's pocket ability. The skin chosen wasn't always black so that was an oversight.
Mr. Sandman has powerful punches and DK's main special is a giant punch. Deejay has a lot of kicking attacks and the Diddy fight makes him use his side special a ton, which is a kicking attack.
None of this was the team being racist.
Mr. Sandman has powerful punches and DK's main special is a giant punch. Deejay has a lot of kicking attacks and the Diddy fight makes him use his side special a ton, which is a kicking attack.
None of this was the team being racist.
The intentions may not have been racist (we can only hope) but the end result was absolutely racist.
It should be changed ASAP.
Here's to this thread exposing the Diet Racists excusing or outright defending these inclusions getting called out.
ah yes, the "you're the real racists for pointing out racism" argument. nice
LTTP but really, Nintendo??
I don't know why jp devs are so out of touch with a lot of common things. I have no words. Did they never saw assholes throwing bananas at POC football players in Europe?? Or the endless american movies with black only villains/thieves?
Wow.
I don't know why jp devs are so out of touch with a lot of common things. I have no words. Did they never saw assholes throwing bananas at POC football players in Europe?? Or the endless american movies with black only villains/thieves?
Wow.
I think these following fixes are all doable with a simple patch for the devs:
-For Deejay, change the fighter to Snake and make his AI behavior instead favor n-airs and jabs, which are all kick combos.
-For Mr. Sandman, change the fighter to giant Little Mac and have the fighter favor neutral specials in addition to Smash attacks (and maybe add in a Donkey Kong Punch-Out Spirit so we don't lose the reference).
-For Tac, change the Villager alt to the yellow-black pinstripe variant. No other change necessary.
I think that would satisfy everyone.
-For Deejay, change the fighter to Snake and make his AI behavior instead favor n-airs and jabs, which are all kick combos.
-For Mr. Sandman, change the fighter to giant Little Mac and have the fighter favor neutral specials in addition to Smash attacks (and maybe add in a Donkey Kong Punch-Out Spirit so we don't lose the reference).
-For Tac, change the Villager alt to the yellow-black pinstripe variant. No other change necessary.
I think that would satisfy everyone.
Wow...
I haven't seen big outlets covering this story yet, I guess it's Holidays after all. Some of them covered the Mr. Game & Watch case back in November.
I haven't seen big outlets covering this story yet, I guess it's Holidays after all. Some of them covered the Mr. Game & Watch case back in November.
In contrast to the sentiment that this is racist regardless of intent, I personally believe that intent is critical in determining if it's an example of racism. Is equating black people to monkeys or apes racist? Is suggesting that thieves are only black racist? Yes. Is that what's being done here? Is Nintendo perpetuating those harmful stereotypes? Is every black spirit represented by a Kong? I don't think so. I don't personally think that this is racist. I don't think it's anything other than unfortunate coincidence.
That is not to say that those who are offended shouldn't be offended. It would be thoughtful of Nintendo to change it for that reason, but I would not consider it tone deaf or racist or anything similar if it remains unchanged.
That is not to say that those who are offended shouldn't be offended. It would be thoughtful of Nintendo to change it for that reason, but I would not consider it tone deaf or racist or anything similar if it remains unchanged.
I think this is a sensible take. I think it's entirely possible that the development team in Japan aren't aware of the connotations of this and NOA probably overlooked it when you take into account the sheer amount of spirit battles in the game. They still should have picked up on it though. Intent is crucial. An example of this is that I see a lot of Americans use the term 'person of colour' when talking about black people. In the UK calling a black person 'coloured' is insulting and we wouldn't do it. So if an American used that term over here you would be in a bit of trouble, despite having good intentions.
Last edited:
OP
OP
"Person of color" and "colored" are different. The latter won't fly in America either.
I'm just saying in the UK it's too close to 'coloured' and it annoys people, whereas in the US it's a more acceptable term.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...fferent-experiences-race-racism-a7868586.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...ce-coachella-black-lives-matter-a8316561.html
https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.u...te-afro-caribbean-today-people-colour-ok-now/
https://medium.com/@journojoshua/we...-color-when-we-mean-black-people-29c2b18e6267
Last edited:
Someone at NOA needs to leak the HR update to screen for potentially racist problems. Nintendo and other Japanese developers don't have a good chain of command to communicate this issue if it wasn't seen. 8-4 play podcast should explain what precedent there has been for cases and what they've done catching it.
Clearly first things first, this shouldn't be tolerated behavior from Sora or Namco or Nintendo, they need to "fix their hearts". Localization also could have screened all Spirit fights that we're human spirits with non humanoid fighters. Red flagged any potentially sexist, derogatory and racist depictions.
Localization should not be standards and practices but probably will be where this stuff is caught from this point forward. ESRB could have not been shown this, or there is new precedent in what they see because of the previous games leak.
OP
OP
While I understand your links, I'm pointing out that "person of color" and "colored" are actually two different terms. The latter is scrutinized in the US as well.
Calling someone a "person of color" is very different than calling them "colored."
Yup. I would've gone for Sheik instead of Snake for Dee Jay, but both work I suppose.
And you could just replace the Sandman spirit's art with Punch-Out DK, that'd work just as well.
Either way, much as I don't believe this is malicious intent, it needs to be addressed asap. And given how fast Nintendo reacted to the whole thing about the G&W feather being an issue, I think this will get fixed as well.
User banned (1 week):dismissing concerns of racism
I'm here with an incredibly diverse group of friends, and we're not seeing it. If you're correlating a black man with a chimpanzee, you may be the problem. To think of that immediately is kind of racist itself.
OP
OP
What a post.
Diverse group that seemingly can't even do basic Googling? Let me help you out:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huff...ys-has-a-long-dark-simian-history_a_23333383/
I understand that they are two different terms. but I'm saying that both terms would be insulting in the UK because we view them as too similar to one another. That's why if you were to say it here amongst my friends, we would understand that your intent is not racist, despite black people in this country finding 'person of colour' a racially offensive term. I hope that makes sense.
Yeah, we just don't think like that here. We live in NYC. Nobody I know is looking at colored people as primates. Maybe those who live in isolation or predominately white areas are, but it's just not a thing here. At least not with anyone I know.
OP
OP
Yea, that does. I was just confused with the initial post given the two were used interchangeably.
OP
OP
So if someone is pointing out the problematic issue at hand, based on something that has been an issue throughout history, and very commonly at that, they may be the problem and potentially racist because your diverse group of friends didn't think like that upon seeing these images?
Did I get that right?
They don't speak for all of us.
Haha, wow...
"My minority friend" and "you're the actual racist" in the same post. Nice.
I honestly think that these Japanese people just dont think of these things in the slightest. Even I may not have noticed it but to assume it was on purpose at all is very disrespectful, it is just an oversight to some people but the association might be worse than the oversight.
They went out of their way to pick a character without gloves for Dee Jay and Sandman. Those are the universal defining characteristics for those "spirits" or characters. Boxers/fighters gloves.
I like how they note that they are "incredibly" diverse lol
To identify that an established racists stereotype is in fact a racist stereotype is in itself racist...? What? That is some interesting logic there, friend.
Interesting how a lot of people are eager to dismiss this as naivity on the part of innocent Japanese devs, as if anti-black racist sentiment isn't a thing in Japan (it is).
I'm not sure whether it's due to ignorance about Japan or general naivity, but lot of gamers like to think of Japan as some sort of other planet of innocent wacky people, but get real people, when a Japanese dev makes something that puts two black characters alongside the Kongs, they are well aware of the implications of that and so is every Japanese person who sees it before it hits the shelves.
I'm not sure whether it's due to ignorance about Japan or general naivity, but lot of gamers like to think of Japan as some sort of other planet of innocent wacky people, but get real people, when a Japanese dev makes something that puts two black characters alongside the Kongs, they are well aware of the implications of that and so is every Japanese person who sees it before it hits the shelves.
I skipped my family Xmas party to avoid politics, hot heads, and diet racists. I'm here. I still wasn't asked by you fuckers to cook 4 prime ribs and 2 well done so you got that going for ya
Maybe you need to skip internet for a while. Everyone has an agenda, racist or not racist, sexist or not sexist, bigots or not, ignorant or not, political or not. Pretending that half the posts in ERA/GAF/Internet have ZERO agenda is ignorance.
Yes! There is one option, IT IS RACIST.
So why were these not caught:
Sora didn't care/didn't see the content
It's a flaw and communication with outside devopment Sora etc In communicating an issue
Nintendo doesn't care/ didn't see it
Translation teams didn't know how to tell Nintendo/Sora Japan to cut it
Translation teams didn't catch it
It's just easier to patch racism.
Thanks to the Bug Team and Racism Team!
What's ur agenda, communicate how you like ur prime rib plz.