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Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,117
UK
People running around a store after people, screeching, and throwing themselves to the ground like a child is weird behaviour. That's not regular white person racism to me (and I've been subject to a lot of it).
People may be reluctant to admit or want to talk about this in that way because historically any humanisation of White People who've done racist things has just been used as a ploy to shift blame away from racist white people.
Each to their own, but personally, I don't want to build the way I talk about this stuff around racism and the way racists act to cover for each other. So, I believe, for me (other black people are totally entitiled to think differently), this can look like a mental breakdown of some kind and I can still think of what this woman did as racist, harmful and something that she needs to atone for.
It's just why every time the focus becomes on the attacker's mental health rather than the victim's. Ijema said she feels she can't go to the mall again especially because no consequences happened to the perpetrator and security did nothing to help her. She has to defend herself by filming. No one else intervened. I imagine this could be traumatic as racial terror often is.
 

JasonV

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,967
Im saying she clearly has issues that a mental health professional might maybe be able to help her with.
Based on what?

A white supremacist facing consequences triggered a hysterical response for sympathy. Thats not "issues", thats a life time of learned behaviour to avoid repercussions and direct violence at POC.
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
Very well put. Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, I live with someone who's bipolar AND occasionally expresses racist sentiments, so experiencing the intersection of those things first hand for so many years may have biased me. Like I always have to view situations through multiple lenses. Even when not appropriate.

I definitely dont want you to think we fault you wanting to help those with mental illness. That definitely isn't the case at all. I apologize if I came across harsh.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
Good lord at the mental health experts in this thread, you guys realize how ridiculous you sound?
"She was on the floor crying, of course she must have mental health problems!"

Did you even watch the video before coming here to defend this racist lady with your "nuanced" hot takes? Like the way she lands on the floor is freaking comical for how fake it is, how can you fall for such a blatant acting?

My take isn't even nuanced. I see a white woman on camera attacking a black woman. I see the system working against the black woman. No one seems to be helping her properly. Not even the policeman. It seems to be clearly anti-racial in nature.

Yeah, of course the first video is comical. But the second video is pretty grim. I'm not sure how you don't see that.
 

Rayne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,633
I can't get over how slowly she laid down to fake faint xD

Like I've had a slowly blacking out anxiety attack and I didn't take the time to make a purse into a pillow lol
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,979
Blackpool, UK
People running around a store after people, screeching, and throwing themselves to the ground like a child is weird behaviour. That's not regular white person racism to me (and I've been subject to a lot of it).
People may be reluctant to admit or want to talk about this in that way because historically any humanisation of White People who've done racist things has just been used as a ploy to shift blame away from racist white people.
Each to their own, but personally, I don't want to build the way I talk about this stuff around racism and the way racists act to cover for each other. So, I believe, for me (other black people are totally entitiled to think differently), this can look like a mental breakdown of some kind and I can still think of what this woman did as racist, harmful and something that she needs to atone for.
Someone getting hysterical when they realise they're being recorded and things aren't going their way doesn't mean they've got mental health issues, it means they panicked and are trying to get out of it. It means they're trying to play the victim. It's a way less extreme case of it, but look at the Amy Cooper video where she straight up tells a black man (who asked her to leash her dog) that she's going to call the cops and say an African American man is threatening her, then does it with rising panic in her voice to make it sound like she was in danger...
from 0.57 in this video.

There's also this story where a white lady is described as "turning tears on and off" when calling the police on a black lady 3 times for seemingly no reason,
www.mirror.co.uk

White mum calls police on black woman 'falsely claiming she is being attacked'

Pregnant socialite Svitlana Flom, 34, was filmed calling police on Janae Garcia as the black woman sat on a bench in a public space in New York minding her own business


These people will play the victim, turn on the crocodile tears, and countless people will queue up to let them get away with it. This latest Karen was just more performative than the rest, and panicked more. Nothing else. When she lies down, oh man, it couldn't be any more fake.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
I'm not seeing why identifying the possibility of mental health issues is and I quote 'defending' this white woman or somehow 'excusing' her. We're not saying she's schizophrenic.

I'm definitely not enabling her, nor think this white woman is a victim.
 

JaseC64

Enlightened
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,008
Strong Island NY
The police report stated she was worried she was being filmed and could lose her apartment/backlash.

Yeah she didn't have any mental problems.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,943
Oh for fucks sake, I see this thread, go to the last page and people have made it about mental illnesses. Mental illness is not a factor. It's an incredibly harmful false correlation that does nothing but stigmatize us. Even if someone racist does have a mental illness, it is not the focus and doesn't change that their behaviors are born from racism, mental illness is completely irrelevant here. Theoretically speaking (because I call 100% bullshit on the mental illness excuse for white karens who will literally do anything to avoid repercussions when they're caught), having a mental breakdown because your racism backfired is still not about mental illness when mental illness isn't a reason to be racist in the first place.

Mental health comes up so much more when it's about racist people throwing tantrums or mass shootings. You might feel safer passing off racism as an abnormality because acknowledging that racism isn't some abnormality is a tough pill to swallow when we want to believe people are overall good, but all that accomplishes is pushing that stigma onto people who are already treated like shit for "not being normal". We're tired of being lumped in with racism and mass shootings, it only hurts the already little mental health support we get when we're seen as the people who might cause mass shootings or go on racist temper tantrums.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,391
Phoenix
Someone getting hysterical when they realise they're being recorded and things aren't going their way doesn't mean they've got mental health issues, it means they panicked and are trying to get out of it. It means they're trying to play the victim. It's a way less extreme case of it, but look at the Amy Cooper video where she straight up tells a black man (who asked her to leash her dog) that she's going to call the cops and say an African American man is threatening her, then does it with rising panic in her voice to make it sound like she was in danger...
from 0.57 in this video.

I still am pissed knowing that woman, who the victim let off because he was a nice guy, is now suing everybody for what she did to herself.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,911
I'm not seeing why identifying the possibility of mental health issues is and I quote 'defending' this white woman or somehow 'excusing' her. We're not saying she's schizophrenic.

I'm definitely not enabling her, nor think this white woman is a victim.

Because it happens over and over again as an excuse for white people.

I have multiple mental illnesses. It's completely unhelpful to suggest that people have mental illnesses because of something like this. It just further stigmatizes those of us who do have mental illnesses. People can be racist and do the things in the video without being mentally ill.

Oh for fucks sake, I see this thread, go to the last page and people have made it about mental illnesses. Mental illness is not a factor. It's an incredibly harmful false correlation that does nothing but stigmatize us. Even if someone racist does have a mental illness, it is not the focus and doesn't change that their behaviors are born from racism, mental illness is completely irrelevant here. Theoretically speaking (because I call 100% bullshit on the mental illness excuse for white karens who will literally do anything to avoid repercussions when they're caught), having a mental breakdown because your racism backfired is still not about mental illness when mental illness isn't a reason to be racist in the first place.

Mental health comes up so much more when it's about racist people throwing tantrums or mass shootings. You might feel safer passing off racism as an abnormality because acknowledging that racism isn't some abnormality is a tough pill to swallow when we want to believe people are overall good, but all that accomplishes is pushing that stigma onto people who are already treated like shit for "not being normal". We're tired of being lumped in with racism and mass shootings, it only hurts the already little mental health support we get when we're seen as the people who might cause mass shootings or go on racist temper tantrums.

This.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,391
Phoenix
Ah, I see we're at the point in the thread where people start coming up with excuses for racist white people weaponizing their racism.
It's like Emmett Till never happened.

That White woman killed an innocent boy with fake outrage and lies.

No wait, going by some opinions in this thread, that could never happen unless that woman was mentally ill. I'm sure Emmett appreciates that nugget in his grave.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
I think we should all be more mindful of demonic possession and those who suffer from it instead of gleefully pouncing on this poor woman obviously controlled by Pazuzu.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
The police report stated she was worried she was being filmed and could lose her apartment/backlash.

Yeah she didn't have any mental problems.
Because it happens over and over again as an excuse for white people.

I have multiple mental illnesses. It's completely unhelpful to suggest that people have mental illnesses because of something like this. It just further stigmatizes those of us who do have mental illnesses. People can be racist and do the things in the video without being mentally ill.

I'm just saying what I'm seeing. If the white lady goes into therapy and admits to having a full on breakdown, and writhing on the floor, I'm not sure a therapist would just show her the door.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,391
Phoenix
The police report stated she was worried she was being filmed and could lose her apartment/backlash.

Yeah she didn't have any mental problems.
She also seemed to be able to communicate with the cops without fake fainting and smacking an officer. I mean I don't know, could be she was weaponizing her entitlement and attempting to get out of trouble for assault but maybe that's just me.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,911
I'm just saying what I'm seeing. If the white lady goes into therapy and admits to having a full on breakdown, and writhing on the floor, I'm not sure a therapist would just show her the door.

People can have breakdowns without having a mental illness. Those without mental illnesses can benefit from therapy.

There is a long history of white people using fake outrage to hurt Black people.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,087
To every single fuck chiming in to defend, yes defend, this piece of shit with cries of mental illness:

Fuck you.

All of you.

Personally.

You're why so many of us have ended up dead. Whether you're pretending to be ignorant or are just legitimately that fucking stupid.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
To every single fuck chiming in to defend, yes defend, this piece of shit with cries of mental illness:

Fuck you.

All of you.

Personally.

You're why so many of us have ended up dead. Whether you're pretending to be ignorant or are just legitimately that fucking stupid.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I've experienced severe racism myself. And sometimes I get a bit paranoid, and wonder whether something is legitimately racist. This isn't what is happening here. The white woman is clearly involved in a racial motivated assault on a black woman.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
At some point moderators are gonna have to learn to identify bad faith people making users mad just so they can get others banned for cursing or whatever bullshit.

Hey, just like racist Karen tried to do!
 

Redmond Barry

Member
Nov 24, 2017
886
What gives her away is her incredibly shoddy performance. It's embarrassingly fucking obvious she's merely affecting the behavior of someone "having a mental breakdown," her on-the-nose description of what she was doing at one stage of her act. Yes, just one. The whole thing is like a collection of "this is totally a mental breakdown I'm having, I swear" greatest hits, with Abigail the no-talent karaoke singer butchering classic ploys and tactics utilized by "harmless" white aggressors to get their way.

To be fair, you don't need acting prowess to pull a get out of jail free card, not if you're white. Her only misfire, really, was not sticking to one or two routines. The charade otherwise would have worked, yes, even on a platform like TikTok which routinely mocks Karens. After all, the internet is always ready and willing to give white people the benefit of the doubt. I am certain that had she just stuck to "fainting" she would have received an abundance of sympathy online, enough to cancel out sympathy for the actual victim at the very least.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
At some point moderators are gonna have to learn to identify bad faith people making users mad just so they can get others banned for cursing or whatever bullshit.

Hey, just like racist Karen tried to do!

I think this is a bit of a reach tbh. Why should moderators ban people for cursing in the first place? Only person in the thread cursing was First Adder. And their heart is in the right place.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
User Banned (1 Month): Driving a derail regarding mental illness in a thread about racism across multiple posts
And I'm sure Karens everywhere are taking notes. If they want to get away with the racist shit they do, they just need to throw tantrums because there aint no way a Karen would ever do that. I mean we see Karens assault people for no reason, and say the most vile things, but, fake fainting and throwing themselves on the floor, no way could a Karen ever think to do that. Must be literally crazy.

Assulting people, saying vile things or even fake fainting isn't on the same level of weirdness as what I saw in that video personally. Like a whole store was carrying on as normal around this person. If your reaction to anything is to act like this you have real problems. And if this was calculated?! If she did this whole act on purpose?!?! Somehow thinking that it would draw sympathy. That's even more absurd behaviour. Like I said, normal racist white people don't act like that. If we just cropped the video so you just saw this racist white lady's actions and didn't know what she was reacting to, you would think something very strange was happening. I don't think we would point at this and go "ah, just a typical racist white woman". And none of that means that she isn't a racist white woman.

Someone getting hysterical when they realise they're being recorded and things aren't going their way doesn't mean they've got mental health issues, it means they panicked and are trying to get out of it. It means they're trying to play the victim. It's a way less extreme case of it, but look at the Amy Cooper video where she straight up tells a black man (who asked her to leash her dog) that she's going to call the cops and say an African American man is threatening her, then does it with rising panic in her voice to make it sound like she was in danger...
from 0.57 in this video.

There's also this story where a white lady is described as "turning tears on and off" when calling the police on a black lady 3 times for seemingly no reason,
www.mirror.co.uk

White mum calls police on black woman 'falsely claiming she is being attacked'

Pregnant socialite Svitlana Flom, 34, was filmed calling police on Janae Garcia as the black woman sat on a bench in a public space in New York minding her own business


These people will play the victim, turn on the crocodile tears, and countless people will queue up to let them get away with it. This latest Karen was just more performative than the rest, and panicked more. Nothing else. When she lies down, oh man, it couldn't be any more fake.


Amy Cooper is acting nothing like this other racist white woman. Their behaviour is, in my opinion, planets away from each other. This racist white woman isn't calling the cops or demanding to speak to the manager. That's the racist white woman playbook, instead you have all this weird other shit. This is a white woman in a store filled with other white women, acting in a way that gets basically none of their sympathy (I think maybe one woman says something). That's not normal to me.

It's just why every time the focus becomes on the attacker's mental health rather than the victim's. Ijema said she feels she can't go to the mall again especially because no consequences happened to the perpetrator and security did nothing to help her. She has to defend herself by filming. No one else intervened. I imagine this could be traumatic as racial terror often is.

The victim should be the focus, and it seems like overall it is here. I'm glad that Ijema was able to get some donations to help her out, she more that deserves it after how she was treated.

Ultimately, I believe that we can have the nuance of recognising the erratic nature of the attackers behaviour (if it seems that way to you) while still putting victims first and helping them out. Like I said in another post I don't like the idea of bad faith whiteness defining the way I want to talk about an issue or incident. The fact that some white people are going to try and push the fact that this racist white woman is just "mentally ill" as a way of absolving her, doesn't mean that if I personally think something is mentally weird with her that I won't point that out. That's just a side observation to me, not something that defines this. The only reason I'm talking about it now is because people are currently arguing about it.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
Ultimately, I believe that we can have the nuance of recognising the erratic nature of the attackers behaviour (if it seems that way to you) while still putting victims first and helping them out. Like I said in another post I don't like the idea of bad faith whiteness defining the way I want to talk about an issue or incident. The fact that some white people are going to try and push the fact that this racist white woman is just "mentally ill" as a way of absolving her, doesn't mean that if I personally think something is mentally weird with her that I won't point that out. That's just a side observation to me, not something that defines this. The only reason I'm talking about it now is because people are currently arguing about it.

I wouldn't let this thread get to you. Over the long run, enough people will see that you say what you see. Honesty is the best policy. Even if it proves unpopular.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,911
I agree on both points, sure.

Then there should be no reason to insist that this woman has a mental illness. History shows us that white people will use fake outrage to get Black people hurt.

The fact that some white people are going to try and push the fact that this racist white woman is just "mentally ill" as a way of absolving her, doesn't mean that if I personally think something is mentally weird with her that I won't point that out. That's just a side observation to me, not something that defines this. The only reason I'm talking about it now is because people are currently arguing about it.

This is harmful both to the victim and those who suffer from mental illnesses though. There is no reason to bring it up.

Like I said, normal racist white people don't act like that.

History shows otherwise.
 
Staff post

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,676
Official Staff Communication
There is nothing noble or helpful about hijacking a conversation regarding racist acts of violence by attributing the perpetrator's actions to mental illness. No one on Earth, not even psychiatric professionals, is capable of diagnosing a mental disorder from a single outburst caught on film. The constant attempts to do so do nothing but stigmatize the mentally ill, and ultimately, all this serves to do is to move sympathy away from the victim of racism to the perpetrator of it and is, in itself, a form a white supremacy. The simplest answer for Elphick's behavior, and other Karens who rage about minor inconveniences and direct their rage towards minorities and their allies, is that she as a white woman has been conditioned by society to behave in this way in order to achieve her goals. Supremacist socialization is not a mental health disorder. We will be going through all reports and posts; anyone who has already or continues to push this narrative without evidence of Elphick's medical history will be banned.
 

Redmond Barry

Member
Nov 24, 2017
886
No normal Jackass would eat horse shit on camera the way Dave England did in Jackass 2.

Guys I think he needs help. Something isn't right with the poor guy.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
User Banned (1 Month): Ignoring staff post and continuing to derail in a thread about racism
Wait a second. I have literally been racially abused by mentally ill white women too. Please do not lecture me on what racism is. Nor do you need to be a mental health professional to see mental health issues. I too have history here. So thank you, but no thank you. My opinion is not invalid because you are a mod.
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,979
Blackpool, UK
I still am pissed knowing that woman, who the victim let off because he was a nice guy, is now suing everybody for what she did to herself.
Really? Ugh, just disgusting. Saw she'd made an apology in the aftermath of the incident, guess that was as performative as the panic in her voice when she was trying to get a black man fucked up by cops.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,391
Phoenix
Really? Ugh, just disgusting. Saw she'd made an apology in the aftermath of the incident, guess that was as performative as the panic in her voice when she was trying to get a black man fucked up by cops.
It's a good example on why you can't show any mercy to these racist fucks. They are not good people and they will fuck you if they can.

The guy probably thought she learend a valuable life lesson and maybe she'd change through kindness or some shit. I mean I guess she did learn a life lesson, just not the one he expected. That she can get away with racism and maybe even make some money off of it.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,391
Phoenix
Some of you just can't help yourselves.

We do this same song and dance every time we get one of these threads.
Yeah it's pretty predictable isn't it. I might be crazy, but, it almost seems like some people care more about the wellbeing of racists than they do the wellbeing of victims of racists. But it's probably just me... actually noticing that shit in every thread where a White woman is racist and cries a little.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
This is honestly just disrespectful to mental health professionals. If you aren't one, please do not role play as one on a message board.

I actually agree on this. No one should be putting out any diagnoses.

But if colour were not involved here, I think a lot more people would point out the obvious erratic behaviour.
I haven't been active lately in the mental health threads, but this and the previous forum, had active threads, and they should vouch that I'm not just anybody shouting mental health. I have a long history with such words.

It's a shame that the discussion isn't a discussion, but one group just telling another group how it is.
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
I actually agree on this. No one should be putting out any diagnoses.

But if colour were not involved here, I think a lot more people would point out the obvious erratic behaviour.
I haven't been active lately in the mental health threads, but this and the previous forum, had active threads, and they should vouch that I'm not just anybody shouting mental health. I have a long history with such words.

It's a shame that the discussion isn't a discussion, but one group just telling another group how it is.

Are you a licensed mental
Health expert?
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
No. But I am active in the mental health community. Both in my own family, and in the community. I know about mental health laws (UK), diagnoses, spectrums, ranges, police involvement.

But you are not a licensed or certified mental health professional. Therefore you SHOULDN'T be making a proclamation that anybody is suffering from a mental health illness/disorder ESPECIALLY from one video.

Mental health professionals wouldn't do so, neither should you.

It's tantamount to someone who isn't a doctor trying to diagnose someone just because he/she has experience with health issues.
 

Ashes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
390
But you are not a licensed or certified mental health professional. Therefore you SHOULDN'T be making a proclamation that anybody is suffering from a mental health illness/disorder ESPECIALLY from one video.

Mental health professionals wouldn't do so, neither should you.

I agree. I don't agree with this idea that no inference can be made at all. Have a look at my post history. You won't see me coming into these kind of threads and having this assertion as some kind of white women defence.

She is clearly racist. That much is evident from the first ten seconds.
 

Pelleas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
541
I actually agree on this. No one should be putting out any diagnoses.

But if colour were not involved here, I think a lot more people would point out the obvious erratic behaviour.
I haven't been active lately in the mental health threads, but this and the previous forum, had active threads, and they should vouch that I'm not just anybody shouting mental health. I have a long history with such words.

It's a shame that the discussion isn't a discussion, but one group just telling another group how it is.

If color were not involved, none of this would have happened in the first place.

This happened because she's a racist, NOT mentally ill.
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
I agree. I don't agree with this idea that no inference can be made at all. Have a look at my post history. You won't see me coming into these kind of threads and having this assertion.

But you are coming in here arguing she is suffering from some mental health issue. You don't have the credentials to make that assessment.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
But if colour were not involved here, I think a lot more people would point out the obvious erratic behaviour.
Come on dude. Based on your wording, every Karen incident can be written off. The fact that the victim was black IS why this is a Karen behavior.

Karen was fine before the incident. She got slighted and threw a tantrum. When cops came she was suddenly fine again. Black people and minorities keep telling us over and over again that they face this kind of harassment every so often, and we see it with our own eyes in the video.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
User Banned (1 Month): Tone Policing Around Racism Concerns; Prior Bans for Dismissive Behavior
I am a licensed and expert at whitepeopleology having graduated from "growing up in America as a minority" and is my expert opinion that the Karen is suffering from White Fragility with a secondary case of caucasity.

That's a really edgy way to say someone was acting like a jerk.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,091
Providence, RI
Official Staff Communication
There is nothing noble or helpful about hijacking a conversation regarding racist acts of violence by attributing the perpetrator's actions to mental illness. No one on Earth, not even psychiatric professionals, is capable of diagnosing a mental disorder from a single outburst caught on film. The constant attempts to do so do nothing but stigmatize the mentally ill, and ultimately, all this serves to do is to move sympathy away from the victim of racism to the perpetrator of it and is, in itself, a form a white supremacy. The simplest answer for Elphick's behavior, and other Karens who rage about minor inconveniences and direct their rage towards minorities and their allies, is that she as a white woman has been conditioned by society to behave in this way in order to achieve her goals. Supremacist socialization is not a mental health disorder. We will be going through all reports and posts; anyone who has already or continues to push this narrative without evidence of Elphick's medical history will be banned.

Christ, thank you.
 

Laephis

Member
Jun 25, 2021
2,545
And we're STILL having this mental health BS thread derail 50 minutes after a staff post. Unbelievable.