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Racist comedian Shane Gillis will no longer be joining Saturday Night Live.

Arkeband

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
Squid Bunny said:
This is where we remember that Rob Schneider is an antivaxxer.


That clip cuts an important part: Colbert said that making a Washington Redskins fund for Native Americans is akin to making a "Ching Chong Ding Dong fund for Asian-Americans".

At the time, it was tweeted out of context by the Colbert Report's official Twitter and caused Michelle Malkin (who wrote In Defense of Internment) to start a "Cancel Colbert" hashtag. If anything, it was Colbert owning up to the inherent racism of his character by saying it was as bad as the Redskins' name. He stopped using the character too.

Colbert's racist caricature was pretty on brand for pre-social media casual racism, but he recognizes that it was wrong. Shane Gillis said racist shit a few months ago and couldn't even muster a decent "I'm sorry".
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A few corrections here:

It wasn't Michelle Malkin, it was a girl named Suey Park. And the "Ching Chong Ding Dong" character appeared more than once on Colbert, but it was explicitly used to hold a mirror up to harassment of Chinese Americans, a frequent occurrence on Bill O'Reilly's program and now Jesse Watters. (Remember: the character of Colbert is a conservative idiot pundit.)

He acknowledged that the bit was no longer worth using because if satire isn't clear enough, then it's just casual racism.
 
Squid Bunny

Squid Bunny

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 11, 2018
5,342
Arkeband said:
A few corrections here:

It wasn't Michelle Malkin, it was a girl named Suey Park. And the "Ching Chong Ding Dong" character appeared more than once on Colbert, but it was explicitly used to hold a mirror up to harassment of Chinese Americans, a frequent occurrence on Bill O'Reilly's program and now Jesse Watters. (Remember: the character of Colbert is a conservative idiot pundit.)

He acknowledged that the bit was no longer worth using because if satire isn't clear enough, then it's just casual racism.
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Right. Malkin did tweet about it (I specifically remember Colbert burning her for her book defending internment in the episode right after the #CancelColbert thing.
 
Goat Mimicry

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
That wasn't even racist comedy, it was just racism. There wasn't a single statement there that was any different from racists having a serious conversation.

I really don't get why comedians would be defending this unless they're racist themselves.
 
genjiZERO

genjiZERO

Banned
Jan 27, 2019
835
Richmond
User Banned (1 Month): Rationalizing Racism; Prior Severe Ban for Dismissing Concerns on Racism
Rinse Bassfunk said:
You mean the belittled, discriminated against, abused, fucked over sections of society have rallied and wrestled a voice and have found a few allies and this is somehow a bad thing?
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I don't see how you can construe that from my statement.

Seductivpancakes said:
You mean we now live in a society in which people are not putting up with discrimination anymore.
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That's not at all what I mean. We shouldn't put up with discrimination, but specifically within comedy people seem to be unwilling to put in the effort to critically distinguish between what's actually bigoted and what's not washing them both together merely because the joke hinges on a stereotype.

To illustrate, South Park has a long history of humor directed towards Asian stereotypes - the Mongorians, Chinpokemon, Shitty Wok, etc. Is this humor actually racist? I posit that it's not because it's actually built on an appreciation of the historical and cultural contexts from which these skits derive, and is therefore different from the present situation because it's not. But it seems to me that people are increasingly less willing to do this mental calculus, declare the thing bigoted, and then rage over it.
 
ratcliffja

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,917
Spoopy Boatington said:
That wasn't even racist comedy, it was just racism. There wasn't a single statement there that was any different from racists having a serious conversation.

I really don't get why comedians would be defending this unless they're racist themselves.
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It's the same issue with guys upset about the MeToo movement while claiming that they can't even hit on or date girls without being called rapists. They're either overly paranoid or they know that they engage in at least borderline predatory behavior, much like these comedians know that they have relied on shock humor that involved blatant bigotry or hurtful stereotypes.

The biggest thing that I think people don't realize here is that MOST of these "cancel" movements are with people who have shown consistently bad behavior with no real signs of remorse. Almost everybody has engaged in some sort of hurtful or offensive behavior at some point in their lives. What matters is how people learn from their mistakes and grow from them.
 
megalowho

megalowho

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,562
New York, NY
I expected tone deaf responses from a handful of comedians, the ones not interested in nuance or good jokes or the racism, who just want to focus on the "comedian cancelled" part.

Andrew Yang though, what are you doing here buddy
 
ElectricBlanketFire

ElectricBlanketFire

What year is this?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,857
genjiZERO said:
That's not at all what I mean. We shouldn't put up with discrimination, but specifically within comedy people seem to be unwilling to put in the effort to critically distinguish between what's actually bigoted and what's not washing them both together merely because the joke hinges on a stereotype.

To illustrate, South Park has a long history of humor directed towards Asian stereotypes - the Mongorians, Chinpokemon, Shitty Wok, etc. Is this humor actually racist? I posit that it's not because it's actually built on an appreciation of the historical and cultural contexts from which these skits derive, and is therefore different from the present situation because it's not. But it seems to me that people are increasingly less willing to do this mental calculus, declare the thing bigoted, and then rage over it.
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Those episodes are 20 years old and this present day "comedian" literally called Chinese people chinks. What mental calculus am I missing here?
 
Ashlette

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
genjiZERO said:
I don't see how you can construe that from my statement.



That's not at all what I mean. We shouldn't put up with discrimination, but specifically within comedy people seem to be unwilling to put in the effort to critically distinguish between what's actually bigoted and what's not washing them both together merely because the joke hinges on a stereotype.

To illustrate, South Park has a long history of humor directed towards Asian stereotypes - the Mongorians, Chinpokemon, Shitty Wok, etc. Is this humor actually racist? I posit that it's not because it's actually built on an appreciation of the historical and cultural contexts from which these skits derive, and is therefore different from the present situation because it's not. But it seems to me that people are increasingly less willing to do this mental calculus, declare the thing bigoted, and then rage over it.
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Ah yes, the appreciation for historical events that happened in real life such as Pokemon working as a front to a plan to blow up pearl harbor.

Also this was on the Wikipedia page for the plot of the chinpokomon episode:
As the adults start to become aware of the scheme, the Japanese distract them by telling them that Americans have "huge penises" compared to the Japanese, a tactic that works well against the male characters.
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This is also not appreciation of Asian history.

Maybe you should rewatch some of the episodes you mentioned.
 

gully state

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,990
genjiZERO said:
I don't see how you can construe that from my statement.

That's not at all what I mean. We shouldn't put up with discrimination, but specifically within comedy people seem to be unwilling to put in the effort to critically distinguish between what's actually bigoted and what's not washing them both together merely because the joke hinges on a stereotype.

To illustrate, South Park has a long history of humor directed towards Asian stereotypes - the Mongorians, Chinpokemon, Shitty Wok, etc. Is this humor actually racist? I posit that it's not because it's actually built on an appreciation of the historical and cultural contexts from which these skits derive, and is therefore different from the present situation because it's not. But it seems to me that people are increasingly less willing to do this mental calculus, declare the thing bigoted, and then rage over it.
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No one did mental calculus in the past...There just wasn't enough of a pushback back then pointing out how offensive some of this shit was/people could easily waive it off.

I would "posit" that most people here took a look at that clip and you know actually did some "mental calculus"

two men ranting using old tired false racist Asian stereotypes w/ Mal intent w/o any sort of punchline for a joke leading to the conclusion that this "comedian" is a racist shithead.
 

LudicrousSpeed

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,243
genjiZERO said:
To illustrate, South Park has a long history of humor directed towards Asian stereotypes - the Mongorians, Chinpokemon, Shitty Wok, etc. Is this humor actually racist?
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This is a fucking joke.

Yes, of course that shit's racist. The "joke" is just repeating the stereotype as if it's inherently funny.

There might be some things where you could hang that question on and have a real discussion. South Park doesn't remotely come close, it's just racism that was more socially acceptable within white dude spaces at the time it aired.
 
metalslimer

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
LudicrousSpeed said:
This is a fucking joke.

Yes, of course that shit's racist. The "joke" is just repeating the stereotype as if it's inherently funny.

There might be some things where you could hang that question on and have a real discussion. South Park doesn't remotely come close, it's just racism that was more socially acceptable within white dude spaces at the time it aired.
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So many people seem to think that just because South Park did something, it makes it inherently ok. There have been plenty of times when south park has engaged in critical satire of whatever stereotype they have portrayed. But they have also just used shitty stereotypes for cheap laughs.
 
Squid Bunny

Squid Bunny

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 11, 2018
5,342
Norm Macdonald is probably the most divisive comedian I know. People truly either love or hate him.
 
Lundren

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
I posted this in a different thread today, but it is relevant here as well. Old white guys weigh in and misconstrue the situation:

 
NinjaGarden

NinjaGarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,550
Lundren said:
I posted this in a different thread today, but it is relevant here as well. Old white guys weigh in and misconstrue the situation:

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I hope CC puts up a clip from last night's episode. He had Rob Schneider and Jen Kirkman on then had Bobby Lee call in. Rob Schneider was as one would expect Rob Schneider to be. Bobby Lee exposed himself over Facetime then said he was happy to see someone get fired for insulting Asian people.
 
Lundren

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
Mercury Fred said:
So respected his appearances get cancelled because of dumb shit he says about the #metoo movement, Louis CK and people with Downs Syndrome.

Such respect.
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I used to like Norm. I'm not sure if I grew up and my views changed or his comedy did. Nowadays he seems to be your typical white guy who doesn't understand why things are changing when they used to be so good (for him and those who look like him).
 
firehawk12

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,202
Lundren said:
I posted this in a different thread today, but it is relevant here as well. Old white guys weigh in and misconstrue the situation:

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White comedians in a nutshell:

IT'S ANCIENT HISTORY!!!! WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO STOP LITIGATING THE PAST.
*checks date and realizes clip was from 2018 but doubles down anyway*

It's too bad because I like Jim Jefferies too, but his comedian libetarianism is very tiring.
 
Lundren

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
firehawk12 said:
White comedians in a nutshell:

IT'S ANCIENT HISTORY!!!! WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO STOP LITIGATING THE PAST.
*checks date and realizes clip was from 2018 but doubles down anyway*

It's too bad because I like Jim Jefferies too, but his comedian libetarianism is very tiring.
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Not only was some of this shit mere months old, but none of it was funny. There were no punchlines, set ups, funny sounds, or outrageous takes. It was "haha fucking chinks." There was no humor to be found, and thus this guy isn't on a comedy show. Where is the injustice?
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,190
robotzombie said:
Yes, ask those stand ups you grew up watching

Edit: this post was made before your edit of top 500
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I guess what do you consider greatest? I would think top 25 or so is greatest, but I don't think he'd make the list.

Granted, I haven't counted through comedians or something, it's just not something I considered Norm to be.
 
sir_crocodile

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,506
Norm Macdonald is one of the best comedians I have ever seen

it really hurts to have if confirmed that he's a douche, I've suspected it for a while but it's hard to tell with Norm because he's always trying to work people.
 
KoopaTheCasual

KoopaTheCasual

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,745
MadLaughter said:
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If we're gonna do this, you should also post his follow-up and subsequent backpedal, when (I assume) he actually decided to fucking watch the videos of the guy he was defending.

He makes several tweets walking back his statement, but simultaneously trying to grasp on to a point you can clearly see, even he doesn't know what it is.

The act of defending a situation you haven't even read up on is a fascinating phenomenon...
 
Sanjuro

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,077
Massachusetts
sir_crocodile said:
Norm Macdonald is one of the best comedians I have ever seen

it really hurts to have if confirmed that he's a douche, I've suspected it for a while but it's hard to tell with Norm because he's always trying to work people.
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My experience with Norm is he is on both ends of spectrum. In terms of his live shows. I've laughed almost to death, or have been confused and concerned what drugs he was on.

Still better than most of the acts I've seen.
 
LiquidSword

LiquidSword

Member
Oct 25, 2017
501
I have a feeling a lot of these comedians didn't even watch the clip. It's just a reflex for them and they know it gets their name in the news. They are all assuming it's just some offensive jokes and not what it actually was, two white dudes ranting about how they hate Asian culture.
 
CesareNorrez

CesareNorrez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,522
Mercury Fred said:
So respected his appearances get cancelled because of dumb shit he says about the #metoo movement, Louis CK and people with Downs Syndrome.

Such respect.
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Stand up comedians typically don't book shows. And when they produce shows for clubs and theaters, comedy club owners and theater managers have final say.

Yea Norm is pretty shitty, but a lot of stand ups still respect him.

I'm not sure where he would rank, though. I know comedians do highly respect the likes of Brian Regan, Dave Attell, Dave Chapelle, Jim Gaffigan, Chris Rock, Seinfeld. Norm isn't at their level but his attitude of just speaking what's on his mind and his dry delivery is highly regarded by many comedians.
 
KoopaTheCasual

KoopaTheCasual

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,745
LiquidSword said:
I have a feeling a lot of these comedians didn't even watch the clip. It's just a reflex for them and they know it gets their name in the news. They are all assuming it's just some offensive jokes and not what it actually was, two white dudes ranting about how they hate Asian culture.
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Yep. It's painfully obvious Rob Schneider is one of these people, as his follow up tweets actually address the issue and begin to put distance between himself and Shane.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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CesareNorrez said:
Stand up comedians typically don't book shows. And when they produce shows for clubs and theaters, comedy club owners and theater managers have final say.

Yea Norm is pretty shitty, but a lot of stand ups still respect him.

I'm not sure where he would rank, though. I know comedians do highly respect the likes of Brian Regan, Dave Attell, Dave Chapelle, Jim Gaffigan, Chris Rock, Seinfeld. Norm isn't at their level but his attitude of just speaking what's on his mind and his dry delivery is highly regarded by many comedians.
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I guess? I was simply taking issue with the notion that he's "one of the most respected comedians in the industry" in light of him getting booted from the Tonight Show just over a year ago for being a tone deaf asshole and using Downs Syndrome as a cheap punchline.

If getting yanked from the Tonight Show over really shitty comments is what people are considering "most respected" then cool, but from my pov, I wouldn't call him that.
 
Wackamole

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,936
LiquidSword said:
I have a feeling a lot of these comedians didn't even watch the clip. It's just a reflex for them and they know it gets their name in the news. They are all assuming it's just some offensive jokes and not what it actually was, two white dudes ranting about how they hate Asian culture.
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I listened to the podcast. It was more than that. Dude conctantly uses the N word as well. Makes fun of AntiFa, etc. Some of the people there were also aware that they were spreading hate. Most of it was just unfunny shit for insecure rightwinged people. I'm sure he can be funny but he's too much of a testosterone buff still trying very hard to make it with old dumb shit.
 
Tedesco!

Tedesco!

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 30, 2017
689
robotzombie said:
He's also widely regarded in comedy as one of the greatest living stand ups
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Jimmy Pardo
Doug Stanhope
Chappelle
Seinfeld
Patton Oswalt
Maria Bamford
Bill Burr
Jim Gaffigan
Lewis Black
John Mulaney
... all alive and all heads and shoulders better than Norm.


Richard Pryor
George Carlin
Robert Schimmel
Richard Jeni
Patrice O'Neal
Robin Williams
Mitch Hedberg
...dead and still better than Norm.
 
robotzombie

robotzombie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,870
Tedesco! said:
Jimmy Pardo
Doug Stanhope
Chappelle
Seinfeld
Patton Oswalt
Maria Bamford
Bill Burr
Jim Gaffigan
Lewis Black
John Mulaney
... all alive and all heads and shoulders better than Norm.


Richard Pryor
George Carlin
Robert Schimmel
Richard Jeni
Patrice O'Neal
Robin Williams
Mitch Hedberg
...dead and still better than Norm.
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I didn't mention anything about your personal opinion on comedian rankings
 
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