Racing games without assists on are brutal

[Sage]

Just got F1 2020 and decided there's no point playing it arcade style so just went for all assists off from the start to 'learn' the game. This isn't even a 'real' sim and I can barely turn a corner without either speeding and breaching the track limits or slowing to a crawl. Even if I do take one mildly well with the AI on an easy difficult they still pull away from me on the exit. I'm constantly in the wrong gear - it's easy to hear the engine ready to shift up on straights but which gear (of 8!) to take it down to for corners and then bring it back out of I have no idea.

How are you supposed to get good at these games? Just watch YouTube videos of other people and try to copy them in time trial until it clicks?

 

[Patitoloco]

Playing most racing games with a controller without at least traction control is suicide. And I would say ABS as well. As for the gears, in F1 in particular, you should shift really fast from low gears to at least 5th, don't reach the limit on those because it will slow you down a lot.

No assists should only be touched by wheel players. It's really really hard to have the precision you need for it on a controller.

 

[ashbash159]

There's so much to learn in racing that games just have barely ever attempted to teach (I feel like GT Sport has done the most "teaching") that without first playing a racing game with assists and slowly turning them off over the course of 100s of hours it's going to be impossible for you.

 

[Rodelero]

You just have to keep at it, I'm not sure how much watching videos helps unless there's a fundamental misunderstanding at play. I guess it might be worth trying to do things bit by bit, if you're not used to a manual gearbox perhaps learn that first and put TCS/ABS on in the meantime. When it comes to preventing slides and spins it's pretty much all about being smooth on the inputs. Gradually increase the throttle out of corners, don't hit the brakes too hard, etc.

F1 is probably one of the harder games to learn how to cope with assists because there is so much variability in how the cars drive from moment to moment. In Time Trial it's consistent ideal conditions but once you go into an actual race you've got a massive number of other concerns.

What I would say is that... playing with no assists is massively rewarding. It's a tough thing to learn but it's achievable on most games even with a control pad. Just know that in pretty much any competitive setting you'll be at a big disadvantage not necessarily because the assists make you slower, but because they make errors more likely and risks more risky. Always thought it was a huge shame that GTSport didn't ban assists as you went up the divisions.

 

[Stefarno]

I think they adjusted it for F1 2020 as some of the real F1 drivers said that controlling traction in F1 2019 was harder with no TC than the actual F1 cars were and the medium setting was more realistic.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Because you are supposed to run assists if you are not familiar with the game in the first place. Driving without assists is designed to be an advanced experience for players that have mastered basic mechanics, why are you expecting to be good at a game you have no prior knowledge for on day 1?

 

[Sage]

Because you are supposed to run assists if you are not familiar with the game in the first place. Driving without assists is designed to be an advanced experience for players that have mastered basic mechanics, why are you expecting to be good at a game you have no prior knowledge for on day 1?

Click to shrink...

I'm not expecting to be good - I'm asking for advice on how to improve.

I feel like 'play it with assists first' isn't getting me anywhere. I'm sure I've put 100s hours into 'sim' racers with assists on and learned nothing. Like riding a bicycle with training wheels - take them off and you're gonna fall straight away just like someone who's touching one for the first time.

 

[oni-link]

Yeah I can't get my head around it with a controller. I feel like I'd be better if had a wheel, pedals and a real stick, but I do enough driving in real life so I prefer my racing games to be arcadey

 

[Cyberclops]

Picking a small, simple track and just remembering each and every twist and turn is a good way to get your skills up. Don't be afraid to look up advice on certain tracks with certain cars. Real drivers do this kind of research all the time so it only makes sense to do the same.

 

[Atolm]

It's the same irl. Try driving a late 70s/early 80s car which had no assists of any kind and had turbo lag. My bet is that almost anyone would immediately do a spin.

Also driving FR cars without assists & without a wheel is pointless for any car with more than 200HP or so. Triggers lack the sensitivity for a progressive throttling. The most I can drive in Assetto Corsa without assists on a gamepad is a Toyota GT86, a car known for its lack of power.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Playing most racing games with a controller without at least traction control is suicide. And I would say ABS as well. As for the gears, in F1 in particular, you should shift really fast from low gears to at least 5th, don't reach the limit on those because it will slow you down a lot.

No assists should only be touched by wheel players. It's really really hard to have the precision you need for it on a controller.

Click to shrink...

You make this sound like a wheel will automatically make you better at racing games, but I've never found that to be the case at all. I have a cheap-ish "good enough" Madcatz wheel that I picked up from a thrift store a few years ago, and at the exact same assist settings I use on a controller, using the wheel is always significantly more difficult than a gamepad. Turning the assists off doesn't help, either. As it stands, I only break that wheel out now when I want to emulate Daytona USA.

I'm sure the response here is "then buy a better wheel", but the prospect of spending $160+ on something when the cheapy wheel doesn't imply things will get better doesn't exactly make for the most enticing value proposition.

 

[Potterson]

It depends how much assists - I noticed when I get too many assists, the driving is worse. I often set everything on "Medium" with some assists on "Off" even, like in F1 when I'm playing with pad. Full traction control and full brake assist just take control from you - sometimes you want to take a risk and start breaking a little late.

 

[Patitoloco]

You make this sound like a wheel will automatically make you better at racing games, but I've never found that to be the case at all. I have a cheap-ish "good enough" Madcatz wheel that I picked up from a thrift store a few years ago, and at the exact same assist settings I use on a controller, using the wheel is always significantly more difficult than a gamepad. Turning the assists off doesn't help, either. As it stands, I only break that wheel out now when I want to emulate Daytona USA.

I'm sure the response here is "then buy a better wheel", but the prospect of spending $160+ on something when the cheapy wheel doesn't imply things will get better doesn't exactly make for the most enticing value proposition.

Click to shrink...

Yet it's true.

There's a huge difference between a cheap wheel and a middle of the road one, not even the 1000$ rigs some people have, which are absurd. The amount and quality of feedback the wheel provides is essential for driving well with it. And a good pedal set is also pretty important, specially in games like F1 where you have to control your throttling quite a lot.

It's not to say that switching for a wheel automatically will make you better, but with a good wheel and knowing how to drive, it's another level.

 

[dstarMDA]

I feel like the only proper game that even tries to teach you how to drive / how to race is GT Sport. If you have a PS4, it's a good starting point (and it has gradual assists so you can reduce them step by step without taking them off completely).

You should also note that the highest levels of competitive racing have used or are currently using electronic driver assists (F1 even used ABS some decades ago), so don't think of it like you're somehow cheating, even if it's a more brutal help than the sophisticated algorithms and rules constraints of modern racing cars.

 

[Just Great]

The biggest problems with driving open wheel cars in sim-ish games without assists is that you really *really* want to have smooth inputs to prevent the car from losing traction. The small throw of an analog stick means it's really hard to smoothly turn in. Jerky motion will unbalance the car, leading to loss of traction.

Note, the point isn't that a wheel makes you "better" so much as it's easier to do what you want. If you're not cognizant of the appropriate way to turn in a sim-ish F1 game, i.e. what you want is bad, it doesn't matter whether you're using a wheel or a pad or a keyboard, it's going to be a mess. It still requires some study, effort, and practice.

 

[DavidDesu]

Playing most racing games with a controller without at least traction control is suicide. And I would say ABS as well. As for the gears, in F1 in particular, you should shift really fast from low gears to at least 5th, don't reach the limit on those because it will slow you down a lot.

No assists should only be touched by wheel players. It's really really hard to have the precision you need for it on a controller.

Click to shrink...

Exactly this. You seriously need some level of traction control and ABS, definitely a controller. With the DualSense controller haptics and resistance triggers there could be scope to not need them as you will get much better feedback (the triggers will really help actually give you an idea about braking).

As for learning gears etc it's just a matter of practice and learning. Also you can honestly watch the real thing, the onboards and take cues from that, it's pretty close when it comes to when to brake and what gear to shift down to.

It sounds like you're not acquainted with racing games at all really so it will take time. Just go slow and slowly build up speed. Remember the basic idea of the faster you go the wider the radius you can turn, the slower you go the tighter the radius you can turn. Maybe that sounds basic but yeah you need to learn to slow down to the appropriate speed for each corner. As you build up speed you'll start to learn just how much you can take any particular corner at what kind of speed (and I always relate it to what gear I'm in as a good shortcut to get in the right window). Then you can test different braking points. I find with the F1 style cars if it's a super tight hairpin coming to it at top speed you should be braking somewhere around the 150 mark or just after it. Most average corners seem to require braking around the 100m board or just after. ALWAYS brake in a straight line as much as possible. You want to fully brake then completely release the brake and slowly get back on the throttle.

When you have the basics and you can drive around reasonably competently then you can get into the physic of weight transfer etc to help get though corners at greater speed. I remember the Gran Turismo games came with a super helpful driving guide, it was quite a thick booklet, that helped explain all this stuff, I probably learned a lot that I take for granted now. I don't think the driving line "aids" in modern games actually teach you anything, you need to learn how to manipulate the cars and you need to learn the tracks and how to drive it in each particular car. But it's fun and rewarding doing it.

 

[Issen]

You make this sound like a wheel will automatically make you better at racing games, but I've never found that to be the case at all. I have a cheap-ish "good enough" Madcatz wheel that I picked up from a thrift store a few years ago, and at the exact same assist settings I use on a controller, using the wheel is always significantly more difficult than a gamepad. Turning the assists off doesn't help, either. As it stands, I only break that wheel out now when I want to emulate Daytona USA.

I'm sure the response here is "then buy a better wheel", but the prospect of spending $160+ on something when the cheapy wheel doesn't imply things will get better doesn't exactly make for the most enticing value proposition.

Click to shrink...

Proper force-feedback is absolutely essential when it comes to "making driving easier" on a wheel. The minimum acceptable is a Thrustmaster T150. The best middle ground is probably the T300, especially the T300 GT Edition package which gets you a very high standard of quality for the money it costs. Thankfully, the "bare minimum" (T150) should be affordable to most people.

A stiff brake pedal helps a LOT with controlled braking but there's pretty easy and cheap ways to mod even cheap plastic pedals so they work acceptably enough. The T300 GT Edition comes with everything you need for a good enough braking experience, but even the plastic T150 pedals are easy enough to mod and they'll do the job on a very small budget.

Also, the GT Sport driving school is absolutely excellent. It'll teach you the basics and some decently advanced stuff like trail braking very well.

 

[cooldawn]

Playing most racing games with a controller without at least traction control is suicide. And I would say ABS as well. As for the gears, in F1 in particular, you should shift really fast from low gears to at least 5th, don't reach the limit on those because it will slow you down a lot.

No assists should only be touched by wheel players. It's really really hard to have the precision you need for it on a controller.

Click to shrink...

Not true at all. I play using D-Pad, face buttons and shoulder buttons for main inputs. The only assist I use is ABS because square is either on or off so you'd always be prone to skidding. The rest is about understanding the characteristics of the car and nailing the turn-in point to an apex. Apexes are like a qiuz but there is only one right answer to get the very best and consistent performance out of controller inputs.

While you are acclimatising, treat the track as if it's wet and use a higher gear to exit corners, that'll help prevent you spinning out as much.

 

[Maturin]

Using the racing line means you just look at the line and never learn the track. It actually hinders learning the skills one needs to get better at a racing game.

 

[Spades]

Playing most racing games with a controller without at least traction control is suicide.

Click to shrink...

I'd completely agree with this. Console-based racing games just aren't meant to be "realistic" when you're using a controller as an input method, so you're going to have a bad time trying to play it realistically.

If you want realistic, it's time to look into iRacing. :)

 

[Decarb]

The travel in the triggers is not enough to feather the throttle so you don't spin every time you accelerate. This is why you need the wheel and gas/brake pedals.

 

[Tygre]

Just got F1 2020 and decided there's no point playing it arcade style so just went for all assists off from the start to 'learn' the game. This isn't even a 'real' sim and I can barely turn a corner without either speeding and breaching the track limits or slowing to a crawl. Even if I do take one mildly well with the AI on an easy difficult they still pull away from me on the exit. I'm constantly in the wrong gear - it's easy to hear the engine ready to shift up on straights but which gear (of 8!) to take it down to for corners and then bring it back out of I have no idea.

How are you supposed to get good at these games? Just watch YouTube videos of other people and try to copy them in time trial until it clicks?

Click to shrink...

By playing with the assists on and gradually turning them off. Disable the Braking and Steering assists obviously, but you should be playing with ABS, Traction control, racing line, automatic gears, etc until you get the hang of it. Then you gradually turn them off as you get better.

You don't learn to swim by being thrown into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

Formula One is the pinnacle of Motorsport. Even though the F1 games aren't the hardest of hardcore sims, they are still sim-lite versions of the hardest class of racing there is.

Racing a Miata in a proper sim like iRacing is way easier than racing an F1 car in F1 2020 with all the assists off... because it's a Miata and not an F1 car.

 

[nsilvias]

this is what killed racing games for me. before everything became sim i loved racing games

 

[Atolm]

I feel like the only proper game that even tries to teach you how to drive / how to race is GT Sport. If you have a PS4, it's a good starting point (and it has gradual assists so you can reduce them step by step without taking them off completely).

You should also note that the highest levels of competitive racing have used or are currently using electronic driver assists (F1 even used ABS some decades ago), so don't think of it like you're somehow cheating, even if it's a more brutal help than the sophisticated algorithms and rules constraints of modern racing cars.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, GT3 cars use drive assists for example.

Also GT Sport lets you change stuff like traction control and fuel plans in real time.

 

[Issen]

Using the racing line means you just look at the line and never learn the track. It actually hinders learning the skills one needs to get better at a racing game.

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Yep. Gotta learn to look at the next apex always and approach it correctly. Can't do that with the" racing line" assist on.

Also remember the golden rule of racing: Drive slow to go fast.

What this means is, drive within your limits and only push past them very slightly and progressively. Otherwise, you're just going to keep spinning out and crashing. Also, properly slowing down before corners to enter turns correctly and hit the apex with the optimal line (slow in, fast out) is, perhaps counterintuitively, the fastest way around a racetrack.

 

[AllBizness]

Playing most racing games with a controller without at least traction control is suicide. And I would say ABS as well. As for the gears, in F1 in particular, you should shift really fast from low gears to at least 5th, don't reach the limit on those because it will slow you down a lot.

No assists should only be touched by wheel players. It's really really hard to have the precision you need for it on a controller.

Click to shrink...

Nah, no assist or traction control needed in GT Sport once you're good enough with a controller.

 

[Soundscream]

People saying you can't get good with a controller without assist are wrong.

It's hard as fuck but it can be done. I use both wheel and controller, and I feel I can use either and be just as effective with all assist off.

 

[SmartWaffles]

I'm not expecting to be good - I'm asking for advice on how to improve.

I feel like 'play it with assists first' isn't getting me anywhere. I'm sure I've put 100s hours into 'sim' racers with assists on and learned nothing. Like riding a bicycle with training wheels - take them off and you're gonna fall straight away just like someone who's touching one for the first time.

Click to shrink...

Practice, practice, practice. Grind time trial with one assists off at a time. Learn to find the edge where you can apply throttle earlier with lower or no traction control, brake later and later until you find the limit of the car's brake ability, manual gears comes down to memorization, and the game tells you optimal gear for each corner on the HUD. If you spent a hundred hours on sim/simcade racers without learning anything you might need to start from scratch and get a better understanding on how grip, traction and power works on race cars first.

Also, the Codemasters F1 games are not sims and they are completely fine to play with a controller. In fact controller in the F1 games are so good that the debate on whether they are "too good" has been there for years.

 

[pegaso]

You're doing way too much at once, OP. First of all you need to learn the basics of a fast lap (how a racing line feels, which gear to go into a corner, braking points, etc.) and for that you should first leave throttle/brake/QOL assists on, so you can put your full focus on the Why and What to do, not so much on the How. In fact, you should definitely start with automatic gear changes and pay attention to how it works.

The assists that you definitely need to deactivate are the ones that brake and steer for you, and the visible racing line. These are bad crutches.

Choose the circuit you like the best and focus only on it until you're decent at it: watch Youtube laps to learn the right gears, fastest racing lines and braking points, even drivers do this. As you start to repeat it time and time again it will become more instinctive, and easier to apply to other tracks. Then you should start to slowly deactivate assists, but only when you've mastered the previous one. Don't be frustrated if you can't get rid of some of them (I'm good at racing games but awkward with the throttle in F1 2019 with a gamepad, so I keep the traction control on at minimum).

Mastering a racing game (especially a sim or sim-lite) is superfun and rewarding, but it requires homework.

 

[pegaso]

People saying you can't get good with a controller without assist are wrong.

It's hard as fuck but it can be done. I use both wheel and controller, and I feel I can use either and be just as effective with all assist off.

Click to shrink...

You're not wrong, and I don't mind saying that I have trouble throttling in F1 with a gamepad, but at some point it's not just a matter of how hard it is. It can be plainly unrewarding for some. You have almost no feedback, the sensitivity is terribly finicky, the travel of the trigger is minimal... just an unfun mechanic that makes the game worse instead of more engaging, in my experience. It's the opposite with a wheel.

 

[Nephtes]

As a driver of cars with manual transmission in real life, I just do not understand how manually shifting gears works in video games since half of the art of shifting gears is the physical feeling you get during the car's deceleration.

So more power to you op for trying it in a game.

 

[Deer]

I'm new to 'serious' racing games and i'm playing Dirt 2.0.. I consistently place last! 😂

So I think I would agree lol

 

[Maturin]

Don't feel bad about using assist on Motorsports where those assists are really used.

Real world GT racing uses assists. There's more focus on the car to car racing than who is such a big boy they don't need traction control.

 

[Deleted member 20831]

I'm not expecting to be good - I'm asking for advice on how to improve.

I feel like 'play it with assists first' isn't getting me anywhere. I'm sure I've put 100s hours into 'sim' racers with assists on and learned nothing. Like riding a bicycle with training wheels - take them off and you're gonna fall straight away just like someone who's touching one for the first time.

Click to shrink...

Would it be possible to provide a current benchmark of sorts without Assists, like say on Austria? (Mine is around 1.06-1.07 on Time Trial with a PS4 controller)
Because a benchmark also gives a good idea about where you are on your progress to the adjust your Assists.

If you are entirely new with Assists OFF, you can probably try one or more of these..

• Learn without AI on the track.
• Time Trial to understand Throttling, Braking and Gear Shifts.
• Career Practice sessions for Track Acclimatization (learning tracks is extremely important).
• Manual Gears: You should be tapping the Gears up/down at high frequency throughout the race (I suggest enabling the Upshift Tone audio settings for Gear Up until you get used to it than without).
• Throttle: For the first few gears, I would start by only pushing the throttle little smoothly and then slowly increase it by push it deeper as you gear up. Then slowly let go a bit on long fast turns and let go completely before hard turns.
• Braking: Just as throttle control, you start braking slowly and smoothly, only then push it deeper if you want to brake even harder. (if you push it hard directly, you lock up your tyres and the car usually goes stiff). Note that sometimes you probably do not need to brake at all, just let go of the throttle.
• Steering: You should probably be turning a little by little slowly (else you lose modest amount speed, even if its not noticeable) and then make a hard turn as your vehicle speed decreases.
• Braking and Steering at the same time may not work ideally when you start driving without Assists for the first few times, that can be adjusted by braking all you need before you initiate the turn and then stop doing it later when you have better control of the vehicle.
• During Races your tyre's start to wear down and you will start to notice that a spinout is usually just around the next hard corner after exit, to avoid it you need to start increasing the buffer and smoothness of the Throttle, Braking and while Steering (imagine elongating the pressure on those inputs).

 

[Theswweet]

My roommate played Dirt Rally in VR exactly once, and *never again*.

He's a decent driver that actually has quite a bit of offroad experience, but it still absolutely terrified him.

 

[Tygre]

As a driver of cars with manual transmission in real life, I just do not understand how manually shifting gears works in video games since half of the art of shifting gears is the physical feeling you get during the car's deceleration.

So more power to you op for trying it in a game.

Click to shrink...

Shifting gears in an F1 car is nothing like shifting in a manual transmission road car.

 

[DoubleTake]

It also one of the most rewarding feelings once you get it down. I put it right up there next to FGs and learning a new character.

I only started using MT and no Assists in GT Sport a few months ago. I'm on controller and it was hard getting used to but after a couple weeks of off and online practice I got it down pretty well. It helps that you can watch other people's races and see when they shift in that game and that there is an indicator which lets you know what gear your supposed to be on going into corners(not always the best think to pay attention to).

My advice is to first to solo practice on a track of your choice. Just keep going around the track until you get comfortable with down/up shifting and your smooth through the corners. You don't have to be fast, just smooth and controlled.

Once youve done that go into a time trial mode, preferably one where you can compare your time to other people's and see where you stack up. (I'm an average driver and am usually 4-5 seconds behind the world's fastest laps in GT Sport). Then if you can(not sure if F1 has the feature) watch replays of the fastest drivers and try to emulate what they do around the track. See where they break when and what they shift to around corners.

I did that for a few weeks and now I can't go back to Assisted anything and my times are consistently faster than they ever were. Good luck!

EDIT: Also don't listen to people saying you should only do no assists if you have a wheel. Yes it's easier when you have a wheel but it's totally doable on a controller with a bit of practice.

 

[dr.rocktopus]

I think we need a baseline to start from. We know you've played sims with assists on before, but do you have an idea of how to make a racing line without on-screen guides? Do you have an idea of the traction circle and what it feels like when are car is about to break traction?

A wheel absolutely helps as you will now have haptic feedback as to how much your front wheels are doing. It's extra information that certainly helps, but I think right now the basics are what's needed.

As most said learning the speeds to be at through corners takes practice, research and time. From the example in the OP it sounds like you're not approaching the corner correctly or setting up the right entry speed and gearing.

 

[digita1alchemy]

The first thing I do in racing games is turn all the assists off, except for maybe ABS. I find the assists usually slow me down and reduce the quality of feedback you get from the car (the car will often feel "numb").

Obviously that's not the case for everyone, but I think people should probably run with the lowest number of assists that they can handle. Run time trials while tweaking the settings and find a sweet spot in terms of comfort and lap times.

 

[Gelf]

In my attempts to play full sim racers I can never work out what assists I even want on and I can't find a balance between feeling unsatisfyingly guided or feeling completely out of my depth. It surprises me that this is somehow more popular than arcade racers that are much easier to deal with, even the ones with a reputation of being hard.

 

[Deleted member 37679]

imho playing racing sims on a controller without assists is "easier" than with a wheel as it is way more forgiving.
to me it sounds like you're doing a lot of basic things wrong and have to learn them first.
dont try to replicate hot laps of other people as you dont know what they re doing yet.

check out stuff like iracings driving school

iRacing Driving School

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

- drive without a racing line. learn how to read and remember tracks. focus on apex and braking points.
check out youtube for answers. this should cover the apex topic and you need to understand why you want to get out fast of a corner. not bomb into it.
Your OP sounds as if you miss braking points and cornering speed. at the end you only want to turn in once into a corner and hit the throttle once to speed out of it. (that part is never going to be smooth on a controller. but still: thats the goal)

- braking
you can keep ABS on until you have learned how to break. you only want to brake into a corner without turning in. so you either brake or you turn in / hit the throttle and not everything simultaneously. later you'll learn stuff like trail braking but before that you have to understand car physics.

- understand car physics and what weight transfer does (like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX4euX-1rug)
in short: the reason why you dont slam on the input but try to be smooth

of course there is a lot more to it, but usually these points will cover a big chunk.

it is a lot of learning, failing and practicing at first but keep in mind: you're learning the tracks only once and they're for every other game out there aswell. plus, once you get the driving basics right you're able to jump into any "sim" game right away. event though all of them interpret nuances of physics differently they rely on basic car physics.

edit

As a driver of cars with manual transmission in real life, I just do not understand how manually shifting gears works in video games since half of the art of shifting gears is the physical feeling you get during the car's deceleration.

So more power to you op for trying it in a game.

Click to shrink...

its not about physical feeling its about having the right torque/revs at the right time. same as in real life.