Rabanastre is still the best 3D city in FF

[PlanetSmasher]

the moment you met Fran and balthier in the castle you can tell she's a strong character with a very well defined personality. If you see all the interactions between her and balthier you can see that he respects her a lot. Yes her clothing choices are iffy but that doesn't mean she's a walking doll. Even about the ocuria Fran has her own opinion.

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I honestly don't agree. She barely factors into the story and she almost never has anything meaningful to say, outside of the storyline directly involving the Viera which is basically "Fran's very own episode".

Like it's cool if she and Balthier get along, but it doesn't translate into an active role in the story or a compelling participant in dialogue scenes. She's usually just there, like Penelo.

 

[blonded]

I know it's empty but Amaurot from FFXIV deserves a shout just for its visuals

 

[Dekuman]

If your metric is interactivity the best FF city is Jeuno in FFXI. This was pre wow so no duty finders or exclamation marks on npcs. You actually had to physically go there to buy supplies and armor before chocoing out or taking an airship to where the group was headed.

It was designed as a hub for players to gather before setting out and it had and still has a player driven economy with organic bazaars popping up in all servers where players bazaar their wares separate from the auction house

Back when I first played 12 Jeuno was the city I identified Rabanastre took inspiration from for an offline MMO like experience
.

 

[Hu3]

I honestly don't agree. She barely factors into the story and she almost never has anything meaningful to say, outside of the storyline directly involving the Viera which is basically "Fran's very own episode".

Like it's cool if she and Balthier get along, but it doesn't translate into an active role in the story or a compelling participant in dialogue scenes. She's usually just there, like Penelo.

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we'll agree to disagree then. To me she ads more flavor and versatility to the story and the party.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

we'll agree to disagree then. To me she ads more flavor and versatility to the story and the party.

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Sure. We can't agree on everything, after all! No harm done.

 

[Eppcetera]

The only way that Rabanastre is the best 3D city in the franchise is if none of the PS1 games count. I remember being incredibly disappointed by Rabanastre after seeing it initially impressed me. I always thought it was dumb how I couldn't talk to most of the townspeople (turns out a lot of them are just wallpaper), and I don't care for RPG towns/cities where I can't enter a bunch of buildings, either. Sure, it's more "realistic" that way, but that's not the kind of realism I want in a video game city.

 

[Bane]

Without a doubt one of the best at least. Though I think Ishgard might be my favorite city in all of the games.

Night time in Ishgard is... magical. :O

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It's not often I say this but, first reply nails it. Ishgard is probably my favorite city in an mmo, and pretty high up the list for RPGs in general. The architecture, the culture, the story and history, the music... just top tier work from everyone. I want a house there so badly.

I like Rabanastre a lot but it doesn't top Kilika, Ishgard or Jeuno especially, but also Lindblum, Windurst (admittedly nostalgia likely plays a big part in this one as it was my first mmo city), Gridania, or Limsa Lominsa.

It makes me happy to see people mention how special Jeuno is. That first trek there back then is so memorable.

 

[B.K.]

What exactly is so charismatic about Fran? Aside from the fact she dresses like an anime stripper and wears high heels in combat, which is incredibly stupid?

Like she doesn't talk much, she doesn't DO much, she's just Balthier's mostly-naked sidekick.

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You can say the same thing about 2B, but people still go crazy over her.

 

[Tochtli79]

The only way that Rabanastre is the best 3D city in the franchise is if none of the PS1 games count. I remember being incredibly disappointed by Rabanastre after seeing it initially impressed me. I always thought it was dumb how I couldn't talk to most of the townspeople (turns out a lot of them are just wallpaper), and I don't care for RPG towns/cities where I can't enter a bunch of buildings, either. Sure, it's more "realistic" that way, but that's not the kind of realism I want in a video game city.

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I don't mind this since most of the NPCs that you can't speak to still feel like they've got stuff going on. Whether it's how they're posed, or if they're animated to look as if they're speaking with each other or doing errands, or kids hanging out, merchants selling their wares, etc. I don't need to talk to every merchant just to read "amulets for sale" lol.

I do agree about wanting more buildings to be accessible, but that's a limitation many RPGs have, especially from around the time FFXII came out.

Should've known better than to open a FF thread. Horrid takes everywhere.

It feels weird to criticise Rabanastre for basically being a couple of zones with merchants and some side content when... that's what literally every FF city is? It's all about the atmosphere and how well the game fools you into believing that the city is more than it really is. I loved XII's towns, they felt vibrant and lived in, had a really unique personality to them.

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Pretty much true for all FFs after PS1, agreed.

 

[Ravage]

Since FFVIII isn't 3D, I gotta agree with the OP here. Exploring Rabanastre for the first time remains one of the most magical moments of my life.

The city felt so real and alive that I was completely immersed from start till finish.

 

[Acquiesc3]

If you don't count 14, sure.

But yeah Rabanastre was pretty mindblowing in 2006.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Jesus Christ talk about bad takes...

Edit:



but final fantasy and Fran are soulless amiright

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How the hell does this prove that Fran has charisma

The only character with a bit of charisma is Balthier the rest are planks of wood

And FFXII's story is incredibly simplistic, poorly paced, and unbelievably dull

 

[Griselbrand]

Jeuno is something special because of how difficult it is to travel from city to city early on in the game. That first long journey that you make on chocobo to get to Jeuno, and then you're met with a bustling city with tons of different players and NPCs. It's like the big immigrant city, as every race starts in a different city, but never in Jeuno.

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Via chocobo? Pfft. Back in my day you died five times making the trek on foot and we liked it.

I like Rabanastre because of the different zones within the city, the undercity being my favorite. San d'Oria, Adoulin, and Bastok might be my favorites overall though.

 

[Deleted member 33533]

Well, I would agree to that, actually. The only ff with an ending that I don't feel anything at all emotionally, just simply flat throughout.

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That's another thing I don't get. The ending is really emotional. There are stakes and great moments between different characters. Everyone got a good ending too. The music in the CG scene following the final boss really brings it all together.

How the hell does this prove that Fran has charisma

The only character with a bit of charisma is Balthier the rest are planks of wood

And FFXII's story is incredibly simplistic, poorly paced, and unbelievably dull

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You seem to have charisma confused with sassiness or big personalities. At the very least you seem to think "charisma" is the only trait that makes a good character. FF12's characters are more down to earth but they still all have distinct personalities that make them appealing. They just don't wear it on their sleeve so to speak.

Fran is a great character. She's got a mystery and wisdom to her that the rest of the cast doesn't have. She has this cool, calm and collected demeanor that plays well off of characters like Balthier or Vaan. It's funny when she does has the occasional sassy comment because it almost surprises you and the other characters. She's blunt in an endearing way and you can tell she's also very caring and emotionally empathetic in her interactions. She doesn't have catchphrases or the type of personality that jumps out into your face but I think she doesn't need to be that.

I think people only ever want characters like FFXV's cast where the character traits are surface level and constantly in your face with a comedic vibe. And I like those characters too but I can appreciate that they are going for separate things.

 

[Tornak]

Out of the fully 3D cities and not having truly played any of the MMOs, I'd say so. Also, keep hating on XII, it only makes it stronger.

I remember being in awe regarding both the actual and perceived scale Rabanastre exuded, it pushed the PS2 as hard as it could. The architectural design is really eye-catching and unique in how it mixes more classical aesthetics with the sprawling cities we're accostumed to nowadays regarding building size. The different races, amount of NPCs markets and the general vibe (Mediterranean-looking city in the middle of a desert) made of Rabanastre this very cool trade spot. Bhujerba and Archades were cool too.

Aesthetically, Accordo (XV) was pretty nice (a tad dull during the day, but quite striking at night). It just was very underwhelming both in its placement within the story (which made uninterested in doing side stuff there), its optional quests, its exploration... All of which I'd have been more than fine with had the game featured more than two towns. It all felt very barebones, like an after-thought (understandable considering how messy development was).

I never played any of the XIII sequels, so I couldn't say.

In any case, it's unfair since it's prerrendered backgrounds, but no city will ever come close to Lindblum imo, whereas VIII has the best cities as a whole (variety, aesthetics, number, functionality...) and VII the most iconic one (Midgar, duh).

 

[Laughing Banana]

That's another thing I don't get. The ending is really emotional. There are stakes and great moments between different characters. Everyone got a good ending too. The music in the CG scene following the final boss really brings it all together.



I think people only ever want characters like FFXV's cast where the character traits are surface level and constantly in your face with a comedic vibe. And I like those characters too but I can appreciate that they are going for separate things.

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Maybe it's just because I don't really care about the characters? And it's not like I don't understand what they're trying to do or not appreciating that they're trying something different, they just don't click with me.

And stop acting as if all that dislike the characters don't "get" them or anything like that, it's condescending.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

I am partial to Ul'dah from XIV, even thought that's a bit of a Rabanastre 2.0, lol. I also strangely liked Academia from XIII-2.

 

[MilkBeard]

It's big, but I feel it's pretty lifeless, other than having large quantities of random npcs and sections of the map. It's cool in theory but feels soulless beyond its design. I prefer cities that have more character development and involvement within their confines. Even if they are smaller and have less NPCs, I find those to be the better cities.

Edit: to be honest, now that I think about it, there aren't that many great cities in the fully 3d Final Fantasy titles. In that case, I guess it qualifies, but it's winning an award without much competition. Though I haven't played much of XIV, so I can't compare much to that. Though I would say based on what I played, I would probably like its later cities much more than anything in XII, since by default there is much more engagement with the world and people in it.

 

[Deleted member 511]

I don't really remember there being anything interesting to do there if I'm being honest.

 

[Disclaimer]

Lindblum and Rabanastre are the best SP FF cities IMO, though I think the former edges out the latter. (Well, maybe not in sheer scope or density, but in style and feel.)

The MMOs have vastly, vastly better cities than any of the SP FFs, though. FFXI's cities are all superb.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

I like it but it's not my favourite from FFXII, that would be either Archades (both the Imperial City and Old Archades) or Balfonheim Port.

 

[Deleted member 33533]

Maybe it's just because I don't really care about the characters? And it's not like I don't understand what they're trying to do or not appreciating that they're trying something different, they just don't click with me.

And stop acting as if all that dislike the characters don't "get" them or anything like that, it's condescending.

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I have no idea what you're talking about. I articulated exactly why I like the characters with details and examples. I never said you had to like the characters. You're entitled to your opinion but just because I made a counterpoint doesn't mean I'm being condescending. It's far less condescending than just saying the game has no emotion or soul full stop.

 

[Hu3]

How the hell does this prove that Fran has charisma

The only character with a bit of charisma is Balthier the rest are planks of wood

And FFXII's story is incredibly simplistic, poorly paced, and unbelievably dull

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maybe because she feels like a real person and not like a fucking cartoon.

I'll take final fantasy 12 story anyday of the week over the shit show in your avatar.

If you think that the plot of XII is simplistic then you didn't get an ounce of it.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

maybe because she feels like a real person and not like a fucking cartoon.

I'll take final fantasy 12 story anyday of the week over the shit show in your avatar.

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She feels like a "real character?" She barely has lines throughout the game lol and she barely interacts with the others unless she's making a comment about Mist. She's about as cardboard as the rest of the cast which act more like they're reluctantly working a shift together

FFVIIR's story isn't a total snooze fest like XII's so I'll take it any day over it. Different strokes I suppose :)

 

[Kodama4]

Agreed OP, really enjoyed the sewers. MMO cities dont count, they are updated constantly

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

maybe because she feels like a real person and not like a fucking cartoon.

I'll take final fantasy 12 story anyday of the week over the shit show in your avatar.

If you think that the plot of XII is simplistic then you didn't get an ounce of it.

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I do get it. There was nothing remotely complex about the conflicts in the game and it was incredibly straightforward

 

[Hu3]

Different strokes I suppose :)

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yes very different stokes I'll take real political intrigue and real world affairs over "very big bad corporation bad!" any day.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

yes very different stokes I'll take real political intrigue and real world affairs over "very big bad corporation bad!" any day.

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If you want remotely interesting political intrigue go play a Suikoden game, not Final Fantasy MacGuffin Collectathon "SHOULD I USE THE NETHICITE" XII.

 

[Tornak]

Edit: to be honest, now that I think about it, there aren't that many great cities in the fully 3d Final Fantasy titles. In that case, I guess it qualifies, but it's winning an award without much competition. Though I haven't played much of XIV, so I can't compare much to that. Though I would say based on what I played, I would probably like its later cities much more than anything in XII, since by default there is much more engagement with the world and people in it.

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While I disagree regarding Rabanastre (can see where you're coming from tho), yeah, if we stick to non-MMO FF games, we haven't had great fully 3D cities.

In XIII, they were non-existent and XV only had two and they were rather dissapointing in things to do and even scale (again, considering it was only two in the whole game). VII-R I guess I can excuse, and I found Wall Market to be pretty cool as a whole.

It's gonna be hard to top the PSX games (and nostalgia plays a big role here), but I hope these XVI concepts translate into sizable and dense enough cities with interesting things to do. It's a bold move to put these and the map with other towns marked up, let's see if they're actually explorable:

 

[Laughing Banana]

Lol at saying that ffxii's plot as 'sophisticated', come on, nothing in it is hard to understand at all.

 

[softtack]

I don't know about that OP but the music theme is pretty good.

 

[Soma]

I can already hear the city theme in my head lol

That being said, the first time I walked into Ishgard in XIV was quite an experience for me. Absolutely love the atmosphere of that city.

 

[Hu3]

If you want remotely interesting political intrigue go play a Suikoden game, not Final Fantasy MacGuffin Collectathon "SHOULD I USE THE NETHICITE" XII.

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I own and have played every single suiko game, yes. 😁

The killing of an heir, the framing of a loyal soldier, the usurpation of power, the meddling of otherworldly powers moving the strings behind the scenes etc. yes very simplistic indeed.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

That's another thing I don't get. The ending is really emotional. There are stakes and great moments between different characters. Everyone got a good ending too. The music in the CG scene following the final boss really brings it all together.




You seem to have charisma confused with sassiness or big personalities. At the very least you seem to think "charisma" is the only trait that makes a good character. FF12's characters are more down to earth but they still all have distinct personalities that make them appealing. They just don't wear it on their sleeve so to speak.

Fran is a great character. She's got a mystery and wisdom to her that the rest of the cast doesn't have. She has this cool, calm and collected demeanor that plays well off of characters like Balthier or Vaan. It's funny when she does has the occasional sassy comment because it almost surprises you and the other characters. She's blunt in an endearing way and you can tell she's also very caring and emotionally empathetic in her interactions. She doesn't have catchphrases or the type of personality that jumps out into your face but I think she doesn't need to be that.

I think people only ever want characters like FFXV's cast where the character traits are surface level and constantly in your face with a comedic vibe. And I like those characters too but I can appreciate that they are going for separate things.

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Honestly? Story wise, the only parts of XII I like are the first 5 hours, and the ending. That's also the only time where I like the music in the game (well, save for some stuff like Salikawood and Mosphoran Highwaste). The ending is a really fun watch but I didn't think it was emotional, simply because it doesn't match the rest of the game; if these characters didn't act like planks of wood throughout the game I would've been more invested with what was going on during the ending. In the end all the characters felt like they were participating in a business transaction.

And omg, the comment about XV: no. I don't think XV's characters have any charisma whatsoever lol

I just don't think Fran is a noteworthy character at all. I think she is a very typical stock JRPG cast member with the obligatory backstory village segment and chimes in here and there to spout exposition about Mist. She barely has anything else to say.

 

[Kromeo]

Nope. Esthar is the best.

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As much as I love VIII I never liked Esthar much, the layout is horrible and I've never been keen on the music either. I love all the other towns though

As for XII, I think I actually prefer Archades to Rabanastre, ignoring the slums part

 

[sora bora]

Lindblum

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[Jonathan Lanza]

I wouldn't call XII's story "sophisticated" but I think what people tend to be driving at when praising its tone and whatnot is that it is infinitely less obnoxious then your usual Final Fantasy game and that I can definitely agree with. Things are much more subdued and down to Earth right down to the dialogue, of course though it has the occasional playboy bunny and miniskirt princess.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Windurst, though.

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Bastok! (I hate Windurst)

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Lol at saying that ffxii's plot as 'sophisticated', come on, nothing in it is hard to understand at all.

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lmao thank you

It has a "sophisticated" air to it thanks to how the dialogue is written, but that's about it.

 

[Deleted member 6263]

I don't think Fran is a particularly charismatic character at all. She just happens to be stapled to Balthier, who is the only good part of FF12.

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I enjoyed my second playthrough of FFXII ZA (first play was on PS2 and I hated it) so I can't agree entirely with your thoughts on XII but, yeah, I can agree with the Fran stuff - lady is just bland from beginning to end.

 

[Angst]

Not when Esthar exists.

 

[Butch]

I enjoyed my second playthrough of FFXII ZA (first play was on PS2 and I hated it) so I can't agree entirely with your thoughts on XII but, yeah, I can agree with the Fran stuff - lady is just bland from beginning to end.

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The disrespect lol

 

[Deleted member 6263]

The disrespect lol

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lol no disrespect meant! I really enjoyed the game once I got my hands on TZA, but I still had a few issues with it overall. Fran was one of the minor issues - like really minor lol

 

[Chumunga64]

FFXII has an amazing sounding dub but it was super embellished which probably makes people think that it's more profound than it is.

I still enjoy it well enough tbh But I don't think its flaws outweigh the good parts so I can never replay it

 

[Rutger]

If you want remotely interesting political intrigue go play a Suikoden game, not Final Fantasy MacGuffin Collectathon "SHOULD I USE THE NETHICITE" XII.

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You really hate XII, huh?

That's fine, as much as I love it, it is a flawed game.

But you are very much wrong about how you summarize its story and characters, haha.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

You really hate XII, huh?

That's fine, as much as I love it, it is a flawed game.

But you are very much wrong about how you summarize its story and characters, haha.

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If you want me to be honest, I don't hate XII; I think it's a very, very flawed experience, but it's something that I replay every few years. I like it, but it's very.... not-to-my-taste and I would never want another game like it ever again. Simply because the story and characters lacked excitement, the combat was hands-off, and the world was dull IMO (as was most of the music). It's especially disappointing when comparing it to something like Suikoden III. Despite S3 having tons of characters, I cared about SO MANY of them and loved the interactions and banter between them. The game was just always dripping with conflict and tension; many characters had interesting ties to other characters. I just fucking loved it. With FFXII it's all incredibly straightforward and nothing was interesting. The characters have nothing interesting to say and neither does the story. The world and its lore is very well fleshed-out, but it just bores me for some reason (aside from gorgeous places like the Ridorana Cataract and Bhujerba (which is criminally underused)). I also want to add that both versions of the License Board are terrible, and I think the IZJS version is even worse because of how messy it is.

Also, that post you're quoting was just me being petty because the previous poster summarized FFVII as "evil corporation is bad!!" Of course XII is more than just a MacGuffin fetch quest and Ashe's pondering on using the nethicite or not, but I still think the story is dull as fuck. It starts off interestingly enough and it feels like it just stops after the confrontation with Vossler.

And it felt like the game as a whole had extremely little political intrigue. If you're going to have very little political intrigue you can't also have wooden plank characters like Ashe

 

[SavoryTruffle]

12 is my favorite FF and one of my favorite games of all time.

I hate Rababastre.

I suppose to be fair I generally dislike almost all modern MMO style 'sprawling' cities to the point where I genuinely believe the games containing them would be better off if cities were outright replaced by literal menus. Part of me finds that thought incredibly depressing but another part of me recognizes that I'll find myself in Orgrimmar once again tonight after however many fucking years. The world of gaming would be a better place if I never had to visit another auction house ever again, and for similar reasons never had to visit another hunt board. The cities are consistently the worst part of all of these kinds of games now.

I'm (probably) partial to Karnak from FF5 but all the PS1 FFs generally had great cities. Midgar and Alexandria in particular really stand out.

 

[Rutger]

If you want me to be honest, I don't hate XII; I think it's a very, very flawed experience, but it's something that I replay every few years. I like it, but it's very.... not-to-my-taste and I would never want another game like it ever again. Simply because the story and characters lacked excitement, the combat was hands-off, and the world was dull IMO (as was most of the music). It's especially disappointing when comparing it to something like Suikoden III. Despite S3 having tons of characters, I cared about SO MANY of them and loved the interactions and banter between them. The game was just always dripping with conflict and tension; many characters had interesting ties to other characters. I just fucking loved it. With FFXII it's all incredibly straightforward and nothing was interesting. The characters have nothing interesting to say and neither does the story. The world and its lore is very well fleshed-out, but it just bores me for some reason (aside from gorgeous places like the Ridorana Cataract and Bhujerba (which is criminally underused)). I also want to add that both versions of the License Board are terrible, and I think the IZJS version is even worse because of how messy it is.

Also, that post you're quoting was just me being petty because the previous poster summarized FFVII as "evil corporation is bad!!" Of course XII is more than just a MacGuffin fetch quest and Ashe's pondering on using the nethicite or not, but I still think the story is dull as fuck. It starts off interestingly enough and it feels like it just stops after the confrontation with Vossler.

And it felt like the game as a whole had extremely little political intrigue. If you're going to have very little political intrigue you can't also have wooden plank characters like Ashe

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That's fair. The gameplay is what it is, I personally think it comes together into a really tight experience that I never get tired of, but it's doing its own thing and that won't appeal to everyone.

I do still disagree with your assessment on the characters though. Their growth is subdued and they don't have the more out there personalities of many other FF characters, but how most of them tie into the themes being explored in XII is fascinating to me, and the way they emote and interact with each other feels a lot more real to me than many other FF characters(even if I like some of them more). However I will say Fran and Penelo are lacking compared to the rest.

 

[Dreamboum]

FFXII has an amazing sounding dub but it was super embellished which probably makes people think that it's more profound than it is.

I still enjoy it well enough tbh But I don't think its flaws outweigh the good parts so I can never replay it

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It's very hard to have a good localization, let alone a great dub, if the writing isn't good enough to make it shine. Try as you might, you can't make gold out of shit.

FFXII's localization shined because the material to work on was itself excellent.

 

[Bradford]

I am partial to the MMO cities but I also do love Rabanastre.