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Question: Will Nintendo Ever Maximize Their Potential?

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OP
OP

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Balbanes said:
You continue to ignore most of the points I'm making and the questions I'm explicitly asking. Please reread my post and address what I said if you're actually interested in having a conversation. Otherwise, you come across as just trying to stir the pot.

I'm not even sure I disagree with you, which makes it seem so odd that you keep ignoring my requests for clarification.
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I guess the part you want me to respond to is this:

"You can play Mario Kart as a kid and have fun and the same is true when you play it as an adult. The same can be said for Botw, Odyssey and other Nintendo franchise but we cannot ignore the simple truth that these games tend to be aimed at younger audiences."

By that I mean ESRB classifications and historical marketing by Nintendo. When I say mature content, I mean narrative games that tackle mature themes. Games that are not recommended for everyone. With regards to Simulators and Strategy games, they're not classified by ESRB as mature games except they're graphical in nature.
 

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Xaszatm said:
Fine, I'll answer your question with another question, why does Mario need to be mature? Mario has always been gameplay first, story last kind of game. Not every game franchise has to be mature and Mario out of all of them most definitely doesn't. And it's not like there aren't mature things in other Nintendo games. Xenoblade Chronicles 2, for all the problems I have with it, offers messages on growing up and the dangers of idolizing a person beyond reason. So what if Mario isn't story heavy and BoTW took a backseat on story to focus more on the exploration aspect? They're not the only two games on this system.
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Do you know what Mature Mario looks like? It's the Super Mario Bros movie

which I really liked
 
Dyle

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None of the things you're asking for in the text require "growing up" and frankly a lot of those critiques can be applied to their competitors too. No offense but it sounds like you didn't do your research when buying the system.
 

Absolute

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Perfectly fine criticism about the hardware. Ok, so it was actually better than I expected from Nintendo as far as raw power goes but that's sad more than anything. For a handheld it feels like it's fit for purpose from a visual pov but as a console its lacking.

Criticism about the maturity of their games is fairly timeless. I can remember reading the same sort of stuff 20 years ago. It didn't change then and it's not going to change now. Their family friendly games are part of their identity. You mention about the Nintendo fans that grow up. They eventually have families of their own. They know what they are getting with Nintendo games.
 
OP
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Soneji said:
You seem to equate them growing up with them creating more narrative driven games, which is silly. A significant portion of the best games of all time have no or little story, a fair amount subpar or B movie tier(RE4 even though I personally love the cheese). Sony has decided that narrative driven, chasing Hollywood trying to be mature games are their thing but outside of GOW and TLG they don't really do it for me. Nintendo games are almost always a joy to actually play, they have a level of charm that is unmatched in this industry and they have a subtle maturity in a fair amount of their titles like the journal entries in Pikmin which I'll take over what most gamers idea of "mature" is.

I'm someone whose top games of all time are almost all narrative driven games and I take no issue with Nintendo's approach. They also happen to have created the most mature game I've ever played : Majora's Mask
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I contest the text in bold because I'd argue that my post about their maturity touched on hardware, OS, network, services and games. You've just chosen to focus on games and define it as such. With regards to games, you tend to equate narrative drive games with tedious gameplay and I guess that it's fair because that's what most people are accustomed too. I'd argue that it's possible to deliver a narrative experience without sacrificing game design or a good gameplay loop but that's a discussion for another day.
 
Balbanes

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ogo.on.the.go said:
I guess the part you want me to respond to is this:

"You can play Mario Kart as a kid and have fun and the same is true when you play it as an adult. The same can be said for Botw, Odyssey and other Nintendo franchise but we cannot ignore the simple truth that these games tend to be aimed at younger audiences."

By that I mean ESRB classifications and historical marketing by Nintendo. When I say mature content, I mean narrative games that tackle mature themes. Games that are not recommended for everyone. With regards to Simulators and Strategy games, they're not classified by ESRB as mature games except they're graphical in nature.
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Not all simulation games are graphic. Would you consider Truck Driving Simulator 2018 aimed at younger audiances? Flight Simulator?

I would still like examples of what you consider "mature" themes and examples of other games or game developers that have done those mature themes well.

I guess what I'm saying is.. If you're point is that Nintendo should tackle Narrative games, then sure why not? I just have a suspicion that this isn't your whole point, based on the fact that you didn't just say that and some of the other characteristics of the OP and replies after).

I've bolded my questions and italicized them to make sure you see them.

ogo.on.the.go said:
I'd argue that it's possible to deliver a narrative experience without sacrificing game design or a good gameplay loop but that's a discussion for another day.
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Wait... isn't this what you're claiming you are asking of Nintendo in the OP? How is this a discussion for another day?
 
Dekuman

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Thorrgal said:
You didn't read the OP, did you?

It's not a content related thread



This was not warranted either. You telling the OP ge should grow up for not liking the Switch? For selling it? For buying games on it?

Nice hot take
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I read the OP, it's slightly incoherent and jumps between lamenting Nintendo isn't more like Sony to vague comment about digital games and return back to the platform that I don't quote understand so it's pointless for me to debate a vague idea of what he wants Nintendo to do.

But buried in there is very much a commentary about their games and IPs.
I mean, Nintendo has to at some point recognize that their fans grow up? You can play Mario Kart as a kid and have fun and the same is true when you play it as an adult. The same can be said for Botw, Odyssey and other Nintendo franchise but we cannot ignore the simple truth that these games tend to be aimed at younger audiences. In my opinion, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that and Nintendo has truly mastered the ability to make a title fun for all ages. I do think it's time for Nintendo to take some risks. It's time for them to step out of their comfort zone and start to tackle mature subject matter. They badly need new IP's and I feel that Nintendo has the ability to deliver their own unique takes on different mature subject matter. In an industry where being mature usually equates to excessive violence for violence sake, I do believe Nintendo has the capability to deliver content that is ground breaking while straying from the norms.
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Kthulhu

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Why would you want a camera on the switch? It'd be even more expensive, probably terrible, and you'd probably never use it.

The Tegra X2 is meant for self driving cars, not mobile devices. Nintendo would be stupid to ask for it.
 
DeuceGamer

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Few responses. Just because a newer chip is available doesn't mean it can release in a game console. They have a run up to release that requires tons of testing, so acting like they can just slap the latest chipset in it without proper testing seems like a giant mistake waiting to happen. More power is always good, but it's not always possible in the form factor, power envelope they are targeting at a specific launch date.

In terms of games, why would Nintendo change? They are in a great position by doing what they been doing. It's fine to like mature games, but don't expect everyone to release games for that specific demographic. If their software isn't for you, that's fine as well.
 

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The switch is getting Mortal Kombat, and I doubt it's being censored. Doesn't the Switch also have Nekopara?

Growing up is not just dudebro shooters.
 
Nere

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Agreed so much OP, especially with your point about backwards compatibility. It boogles my mind why they aren't doing it but what can we do? Nintendo will always be Nintendo.
 
OP
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Xaszatm said:
Fine, I'll answer your question with another question, why does Mario need to be mature? Mario has always been gameplay first, story last kind of game. Not every game franchise has to be mature and Mario out of all of them most definitely doesn't. And it's not like there aren't mature things in other Nintendo games. Xenoblade Chronicles 2, for all the problems I have with it, offers messages on growing up and the dangers of idolizing a person beyond reason. So what if Mario isn't story heavy and BoTW took a backseat on story to focus more on the exploration aspect? They're not the only two games on this system.
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But, I don't want Mario to be "mature"? It's Mario and that's why I said I'd like to see some new IP from Nintendo in addition to their established franchises. I only mentioned those two games because they're are 1 and 2 imo when it comes to the best Nintendo offerings. The quality and care those games received cannot be compared to the likes of Xenoblade.

Faiyaz said:
Nintendo is for kids topic. In 2018.

(Yes I read the OP)
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If that's what you got from the OP, it's clear that there's been a serious failure on my part to convey my thoughts.
 

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tldr, i find it curious that when nintendo is up and has momentum behind em that people in here get overly negative on them. curious stuff
 

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The thread title is click-baity, the OP is full hot takes at best and at worst, just down right wrong information.

My own take is that Nintendo should keep doing what they are doing (with slight tweaks because there's always room for improvement) because it's working and if they listened to every random internet goer then the company would have gone under years ago.
 

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OP has very baity wording, but if 'maturing' is taken in a literal sense as 'growth over time' then it's not an unreasonable commentary.

They've been the slowest to grow and adapt to the changing industry in ways that have left even their core fanbase perplexed.

I say this as someone who worked for them for a number of years.
 

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Nintendo being successful really bother people for some reason but it's always amazing to see. It only got better since the Wii/ds3ds where they were successful without following the standard model
 
ElectricBlanketFire

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The hardware critiques are reasonable.

But listing 3 of their heaviest hitters both critically and sales-wise and then saying they need to change because...why?
 
clickKunst

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First of all, that was 915 words.

Secondly, where did you get the idea that Nintendo specifically expressed a desire to capture a mature audience with the Switch? The system was announced with a new Mario and a horrible party game. Why do you think mature IP will maximise Nintendo's "potential"?
 
JigglesBunny

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I hope not. Nintendo is the last bastion for quality all ages entertainment, they have their suite of mature content like Bayonetta and third parties are covering most of the other mature stuff.

I appreciate having games like Splatoon to wash the taste of the grimy, dark, blood soaked war zones out of my mouth from other games.
 
Digital Dinosaur

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In terms of technology and hardware design, it seems Nintendo has always shied away from ambitions to "dominate" a market. They appear concerned about losing profitability by over-extending themselves. Essentially they don't like the razor and blades model. In Nintendo's view it is foolish and risky to lose money on the razor to hopefully sell a lot of blades.

This leads them to be very conservative with how they design hardware. They don't usually go down a checklist of competitive features in order to keep up with other companies in a "red ocean" battle to completely dominate a market. And this does mean that their hardware often ends up lacking what the average user would consider, in their contemporary context, the bare minimum features.

I don't really have much of an opinion on this. Sure, it results in "dumb" decisions from a purely end-user perspective. It means there are often annoying or disappointing deficiencies. At the same time, well, it is the kind of company Nintendo is, until they stop being that and actually decide to change their fundamental ethos.

On the software side, all I'm going to say for now is that I find little appeal personally in Nintendo spending development resources on "mature" narrative games. I put mature in quotes because, to be honest... this term gets tossed around in gaming to cover a lot of stuff that is anything but. At this point, most attempts at mature narrative games are still pretty lacking IMO. Most come across as pseudo-intellectual, or are simply uninteresting pieces by people who don't turn out to have much to really say. They just have a desire to wrap it in a flavor of presentation that adults have become conditioned to respond to in certain ways.
 
nib95

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You can tell countless posters didn't actually read your post and just knee jerk responded to defend their favourite brand.

I agree with a lot of what you've said OP, but I think the reason Nintendo don't grow up in some of the areas you've mentioned, is because they simply don't need to, they are successful either way. Fans (including myself) will put up with paying for a laughable worse than last gen online system, or barebones UI/features, they'll pay higher prices for games, hardware and peripherals, for less advanced performance mostly so Nintendo can enjoy greater profitability, they'll deal with more stock issues, Amibo based pseudo locked content and so on.

I feel like Nintendo has such strong brand awareness and strength that they can get away with more than their competitors could, the expectations in many areas seem far lower. Can you imagine if Microsoft or Sony released a console with such a barebones UI or online feature set? Social media and forums would be ablaze, and they'd never let up, huge portions of their respective fanbases would just abandon them altogether.

It is what it is. People buy Nintendo consoles to play more Mario, more Zelda, more Pokemon, more Smash Bros etc, so they can keep focusing predominantly on those IP's, and put less effort in other areas. Those IP's basically carry the brand. Hell, they are the brand. Ultimately I think a lot of it boils down to complacency and arrogance on Nintendo's part.
 
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OP
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Balbanes said:
Not all simulation games are graphic. Would you consider Truck Driving Simulator 2018 aimed at younger audiances? Flight Simulator?

I would still like examples of what you consider "mature" themes and examples of other games or game developers that have done those mature themes well.

I guess what I'm saying is.. If you're point is that Nintendo should tackle Narrative games, then sure why not? I just have a suspicion that this isn't your whole point, based on the fact that you didn't just say that and some of the other characteristics of the OP and replies after).

I've bolded my questions and italicized them to make sure you see them.



Wait... isn't this what you're claiming you are asking of Nintendo in the OP? How is this a discussion for another day?
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fs9-box.jpg

I played this as a teen and I was quite good at it.
220px-FSX_Cover.jpg


This is flight simulator X. Like I said earlier, ESRB ratings and all that jazz. With regards to what I'd consider mature themes in games, consider the subject matter of a game like RDR2(terrible gameplay, I know). What is the message being conveyed either through the game or the mechanics and how does that fit in the context of a regular adult.

I feel like many have completely missed the point of my post. It's not a discussion simply about games at all. It's a discussion highlighting several areas which I feel Nintendo must improve based on their peers. It ranges from hardware, to networks, to OS, to games, to etc. I feel people feel like I'm equating maturity to the art-style of Nintendo's games and are creating a personal narrative which is far removed from my reality. I mentioned to another poster that Disney is a company that I'd equate to Nintendo and I consider them to be quite mature in the way they go about their business.
 
BlackJace

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newmoneytrash said:
I don't see how any of your complaints have to do with maturity? Asking them to grow up just seems like a way to frame your otherwise legitimate complaints in a snide way
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Gonna have to echo this.

Also people are jumping to the OP's defense by saying "this thread isn't about the games!", yet there's literally a paragraph about their games. Kinds confused about that as well. I want to agree with the majority of the OP, but it's bizarrely presented, woof.
 
Schreckweg 5000

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All that would be forgiven if the software was on point. Nintendo make fantastic games and their emphasis on delivering polished experiences must be commended. Unfortunately, again, it's back to the missteps. Microsoft announced Xbox One backwards compatibility approximately 2 years prior to the release of the Switch and Nintendo failed to learn anything from this experience. Here, we have a device capable of unifying Nintendo's entire catalog from the NES, to the N64, to the Gamecube and their failure capitalize on the opportunity has been disappointing to say the least. The device is capable of emulating pretty much everything up to the Wii and, they've instead chosen to forgo this to nickel and dime their fanbase for sparse content. Super Mario Strikers on the switch? Only if you hack the device, smh. In an Era where the platform is more important than the hardware, Nintendo has failed to learn any lessons from the industry as a whole.
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Xbox isn't the industry. And you are really overstating the importance of BC. See early years of PS3, DS, 3DS and so forth. Heck practically noone bought Wii because you could play Gamecube on it. And PS4 never really advertised their catalogue of old. And people were super happy to buy Last of Us all over again, just a few months later.
 
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Hailinel

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Is there actually a cogent argument in the OP or is it really that jumbled?
 

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tyraniboah said:
You all really can't help it, can you lmao.

If your entire post boils down to "doing the right thing at the right time" then it'd be hard to argue Nintendo has done anything but, when the Switch sales are outpacing the Wii with a hardcore-centric lineup, and the franchises are breaking their own records for best sellers on the Switch.

If you just want more over-the-shoulder, third person storytelling, just get or stick with a PS4. Nintendo gains nothing by emulating the competition at this point.



lmaoooooo
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You said what I was going to.

Have a PS4 with Switch. The perfect combo if you want 'mature' titles with every third party game and Nintendo exclusives and most indies with the added bonus of taking those games on the go.
 
OP
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Nemesis162 said:
Nintendo being successful really bother people for some reason but it's always amazing to see. It only got better since the Wii/ds3ds where they were successful without following the standard model
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lunarworks said:
It's difficult when people like something that you don't.
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No offense guys/gals but this just reads like persecution complex to me. No attempt to address the OP, just hot takes and edgy responses.
 
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