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WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,745
Canada
It's been almost two years since Quentin Tarantino's "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" opened in theaters and ignited a global controversy around his depiction of Bruce Lee. Bruce's daughter, Shannon Lee, condemned Tarantino for his "irresponsible" portrayal of the martial arts icon and said the film created lasting negative views about her father. The scene, in which actor Mike Moh stars as Bruce Lee, is reportedly the reason China refused to release "Hollywood" in theaters unless it was removed. Tarantino refused. The director also defended his portrayal, saying Lee was "an arrogant guy" in real life.

The Bruce Lee discussion as it relates to "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" resurfaced this week during Tarantino's appearance on "The Joe Rogan Experience" to promote the just-released "Hollywood" novelization. While the filmmaker can sympathize with Shannon Lee for being upset with the "Hollywood" version of Bruce Lee, Tarantino stands defiant against anyone else who has a problem.

"Where I am coming from is I can understand his daughter having a problem with it. It's her fucking father. I get that," Tarantino said. "But anybody else, oh suck a dick!"

Similar to his initial defense of the scene, Tarantino doubled down on his point that Bruce lost to Cliff in a hand-to-hand combat fight. This style of fighting is Cliff's speciality. As Tarantino explained, "If Cliff fought Bruce Lee at a Madison Square Garden martial arts tournament, he would not stand a chance. But as a killer who has killed men before in a jungle, he would kill Bruce Lee. He'd fucking kill him! Bruce Lee is not a killer. He's actually facing a guy who could kill him, it's a different story. It's in the book, when Bruce realizes Cliff is taking a military combat stance, he realizes Cliff is a killer."

As Tarantino writes in the "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" novel: "Bruce didn't really want to hurt Cliff. He just wanted to show him up. But Cliff wanted to hurt Bruce. If by slamming him into that car he had fucked up Bruce's back and neck for the rest of his life, Cliff would have been fine with that."

Tarantino and Rogan's discussion touched upon Bruce Lee's relationship with real-life Hollywood stuntman Gene Labelle. "The stuntmen hated Bruce on 'Green Hornet,'" the director said. "It's in Matthew Polly's book ['Bruce Lee: A Life'] and it's always been known. That's why Gene Labelle was brought in, to teach Bruce respect for American stuntmen."

"Bruce had no respect for American stuntmen, he was always hitting them with his feet," Tarantino continued. "It's called tagging when you hit a stuntman for real. He was always tagging them with his feet and his fist and it got to the point where they would refuse to work with Bruce. He had nothing but disrespect for American stuntmen. It was probably just like, 'Oh they're just not good enough. They are pussies. I want to make it look real!' But stuntmen don't like that. That's unprofessional."

Tarantino goes as far as drawing a line between Bruce Lee and Charles Manson in the "Hollywood" novel, noting that Lee viewed Hollywood talent like Steve McQueen just as Manson viewed the musicians he thought could help him break into Hollywood. Tarantino writes, "Like Charles Manson, this spiritual sifu stuff was just a side gig. The way Charles Manson wanted to be a rock star, Bruce Lee wanted to be a movie star. James Coburn and Sterling Silliphant were his Dennis Wilson. Steve McQueen and Roman Polanski were his Terry Melcher."

www.indiewire.com

Tarantino Tells Critics of Bruce Lee Scene to ‘Suck a D*ck’: He ‘Had No Respect for American Stuntmen’

Tarantino understands why Bruce Lee's daughter, Shannon, is upset with "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood." But she's the only valid critic.

Love comparing the most famous Asian American Hollywood star to a murderer

Fuck Tarantino and fuck his shitty boring movie
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
there's a point to be made about bruce lee's history and legacy being more complicated than we probably know but it's lost in the usual tarantino rambling nonsense and defensiveness
 

KungFuKunta

Banned
Jun 7, 2021
374
I don't know anything about Bruce Lee and his history with stuntmen but I know one thing if anyone goes after Tarantino his answer is always go fuck yourself. I've never seen this guy budge it's like talking to a wall. He's one of those old school my way or nothing directors
 

rusty chrome

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,640
I'm not buying that Bruce purposely tried injuring stuntmen.
Are you in the film industry? He is, and has been for nearly half his life. I don't see why Tarantino would lie about something like this. He's usually pretty honest, even about dumb shit that would make him look like a weirdo.

Who knows, none of us were involved with Bruce Lee. RIP.
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,659
The Bruce Lee discussion as it relates to "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" resurfaced this week during Tarantino's appearance on "The Joe Rogan Experience" to promote the just-released "Hollywood" novelization.
There's your first mistake, Quentin.
 

Bossking

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,430
Gee, I wonder why an Asian-American actor in 1960s America would maybe be a bit on edge and adamant on asserting dominance over some violent white guys.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,085
there's a point to be made about bruce lee's history and legacy being more complicated than we probably know but it's lost in the usual tarantino rambling nonsense and defensiveness
yeah, this.

Also, you have to consider the power dynamics of a white director making a movie about white people, in which he takes a beloved Chinese American, known for having suffered mad racism, and portrays him negatively. There's that angle that a lot of white people don't consider. Yeah, Bruce Lee was arrogant and I can believe that he probably didn't give stuntmen enough respect. But that is something that needs to be explored more thoroughly in its own context, not in a singular scene in a movie by and for white people.
 

King Tubby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
Lmao yeah Quentin, Bruce Lee is just like Charles Manson. Your hero stuntman murders his wife for nagging him but that's okay, at least he wasn't hitting his co-stars a little too hard.
 

chokeartist

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,029
Bruce Lee made films in HK where you could hit stuntman for real and make it "real." It wasn't about disrespect. American stuntmen are in unions and shit, they can't be treated the way Bruce treated them. But no, Cliff could not beat Bruce in a street fight unless Cliff pulled out a knife.
 

Pirateluigi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,871
I'm reluctant to believe anything QT says with regards to stuntmen given what happened with Uma Thurman
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
Bruce Lee came from Hong Kong cinema, where stuntmen knew how to actually fight, and expected to be tagged. It wasn't about disrespecting American stuntmen, it was about the American stunt scene being shit. There's a reason the contemporary Hollywood stunt industry is disproportionately Asian.
 

Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,794
Fuck off Tarantino.

yeah, this.

Also, you have to consider the power dynamics of a white director making a movie about white people, in which he takes a beloved Chinese American, known for having suffered mad racism, and portrays him negatively. There's that angle that a lot of white people don't consider. Yeah, Bruce Lee was arrogant and I can believe that he probably didn't give stuntmen enough respect. But that is something that needs to be explored more thoroughly in its own context, not in a singular scene in a movie by and for white people.

This.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
Tarantino is notoriously full of shit a lot of the time, so I have a hard time feeling sympathy for him.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,872
Bruce Lee made films in HK where you could hit stuntman for real and make it "real." It wasn't about disrespect. American stuntmen are in unions and shit, they can't be treated the way Bruce treated them. But no, Cliff could not beat Bruce in a street fight unless Cliff pulled out a knife.

Well Cliff was a made up character in Tarantinos mind. So his made up character can beat his imagined Bruce Lee in a fictional film if that's what he wants. Sounds like Tarantino thinks his imaginings have some actual reality though lol
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,693
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive drive-by posting; prior bans for similar behavior
It's not a documentary. "Tarnish his legacy"? Doubtful.
 

AnansiThePersona

Started a revolution but the mic was unplugged
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
If you don't know anything about 1960s American Hollywood history, this would be like if Quentin the Hedgehog raced Sonic and ended in a tie. Then afterwards Quentin says he was holding back the whole time.
 

ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071
In general, anyone who talks about "X can totally beat Y 100 times out of 100" like it's anime power levels or "in the streets, with no rules it unlocks a magical gene that lets them beat someone they normally wouldn't" strikes me as having no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
 

Ubik

Member
Nov 13, 2018
2,495
Canada
I mean, QT is being a dick about it, but it's fiction. Cliff can beat up whoever he is written to beat up. He could even stop the Manson murders or something outrageous like that. I can see why QT is defensive about it, but, yeah, he needs to just shut up about it already and quit digging the hole deeper. Should have just shrugged off the criticism by saying it's an exaggerated caricature in a fictional movie end been done with it.
 

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,067
"Like Charles Manson, this spiritual sifu stuff was just a side gig. The way Charles Manson wanted to be a rock star, Bruce Lee wanted to be a movie star. James Coburn and Sterling Silliphant were his Dennis Wilson. Steve McQueen and Roman Polanski were his Terry Melcher."

jfc.

He speaks with so much confidence as if he knew the situation and people personally.

Instead of having gotten his info from a book of interviews with people from a known xenophobic and exclusionary industry (even in 2020, let alone in the 1960s).
 

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,981
I mean, QT is being a dick about it, but it's fiction. Cliff can beat up whoever he is written to beat up. He could even stop the Manson murders or something outrageous like that. I can see why QT is defensive about it, but, yeah, he needs to just shut up about it already and quit digging the hole deeper. Should have just shrugged off the criticism by saying it's an exaggerated caricature in a fictional movie end been done with it.
I agree he should've done this but letting stuff go just isn't in his nature lol
 

M. Wallace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,152
Midwest
User Banned (2 Months): Dismissive drive-by posting; long history of inflammatory drive-bys
It's a movie. And a fucking amazing one at that.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,138
Bruce Lee came from Hong Kong cinema, where stuntmen knew how to actually fight, and expected to be tagged. It wasn't about disrespecting American stuntmen, it was about the American stunt scene being shit. There's a reason the contemporary Hollywood stunt industry is disproportionately Asian.
A lot of non-Asian stunt performer know how to fight so that's a really weird thing to say, but there's also the litigious nature of Hollywood and insurance premiums. It heavily prevents anyone from being hurt or putting people in actual danger. I am not sure about Hong Kong cinema, but it's only natural for stunt performers to not be "tagged" or injured as much in these settings. Why would they want to? It's a job and you cannot just accept preventable injuries and danger because it's your line of work.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,111
My memory of the scene was that Bruce gave him free shots and Cliff got one good hit in. It wasn't really anything conclusive. A coworker lost his damn mind over the scene though, was just fuming about it for weeks.
 
OP
OP
WrenchNinja

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,745
Canada
Most insidious part of everything he said is the implication that Bruce Lee isn't American

Tarantino is just a racist asshole
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
So after swearing up and down that he didn't mean to disrespect Bruce Lee he now just straight up talking shit about him?

Stay in Israel and never come back.
 

Gotchaforce

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,666
He initially wanted to play the old master in Kill Bill himself. No respect for Asian culture from a guy who takes so much from it.
 

chefbags

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,289
Tarantino is shit. Saw that scene and thought it was just a load of bullshit but I digressed it was a movie so whatever. But now he goes on to make these comments? Yeah he can fuck off.
 

Jombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,392
The guy is such a fucking insufferable baby. Spouting "suck a dick" on Rogan's chud podcast - while worrying about his cinematic legacy. Graceful stuff, QT.
 

S-Wind

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,176
I've always hated QT for his frequent fetishization of Asian cultures, and, the cultural misappropriation of Asian culture in some of his work.

Yeah.

The guy can go fuck himself off of a cliff.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,004
I don't know anything about Bruce Lee and his history with stuntmen but I know one thing if anyone goes after Tarantino his answer is always go fuck yourself. I've never seen this guy budge it's like talking to a wall. He's one of those old school my way or nothing directors

Yep.

Dude just can't take any criticism, at all.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,121
In general, anyone who talks about "X can totally beat Y 100 times out of 100" like it's anime power levels or "in the streets, with no rules it unlocks a magical gene that lets them beat someone they normally wouldn't" strikes me as having no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
"Look. I trained real hard at biting the shit out a mother fucker and out in the real world you wouldn't stand a chance."
 

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,184
Similar to his initial defense of the scene, Tarantino doubled down on his point that Bruce lost to Cliff in a hand-to-hand combat fight. This style of fighting is Cliff's speciality. As Tarantino explained, "If Cliff fought Bruce Lee at a Madison Square Garden martial arts tournament, he would not stand a chance. But as a killer who has killed men before in a jungle, he would kill Bruce Lee. He'd fucking kill him! Bruce Lee is not a killer. He's actually facing a guy who could kill him, it's a different story. It's in the book, when Bruce realizes Cliff is taking a military combat stance, he realizes Cliff is a killer."

Granted, I say this as a practitioner of Jeet Kune Do, the martial art that Bruce created, but what bullshit! My teacher was a Navy Seal and we trained with plenty of others from the Seal teams and other Special Ops forces, such as Rangers. Most of them had killed people but the expert students, whether military or not, could still defeat the untrained Special Forces guys the vast majority of the time. They were incredibly tough and very athletic but the idea that people can fight just because they went to war isn't true. And what the fuck is a "military combat stance?" Special forces who served in Vietnam generally claimed that their hand-to-hand training was haphazard and inadequate back then and eventually the US adopted a great many elements from (you guessed it) JKD in order to make their soldiers better prepared.

Bruce Lee wasn't just a point or tournament fighter, the reason he developed JKD was to make something that rid itself of all the academy fluffery and worked in real life. He was relatively small, but multiple people have said he was tough as hell. Bringing up Gene Labell as a criticism against Bruce is a low blow, especially since Gene has written articles such as "Bruce Lee was the Best Martial Artist of His Time," in which he talks about how impressed he was with Bruce's ability to accept and incorporate other fighting forms into his own.

I liked the movie well enough, wasn't a fan of the scene but QT is being ridiculously obnoxious about justified criticism. Just because you read some things about Bruce doesn't mean you need to make him out to be an asshole and practically "show him up" from the grave.
 
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Waffle

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,823
I don't know much about Bruce Lee's life, so can't comment too much on that, but his answer to criticism seems extremely unprofessional.

Also I hate when people say "Suck a dick" or anything close to like "cocksucker". They need to really think about why that's an insult.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,142
I be always believed QT had very little respect for minorities outside his fetishization of them.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,760
His defense of the scene is worse than the scene itself. Every time Tarantino opens his mouth, I like him less. Also, please tell me the use of "respect" here is in the book QT is referencing, because if he is talking about Bruce Lee in this manner is....kind of fucking gross.

Tarantino and Rogan's discussion touched upon Bruce Lee's relationship with real-life Hollywood stuntman Gene Labelle. "The stuntmen hated Bruce on 'Green Hornet,'" the director said. "It's in Matthew Polly's book ['Bruce Lee: A Life'] and it's always been known. That's why Gene Labelle was brought in, to teach Bruce respect for American stuntmen."

I just found an interview with Gene LeBell talking about Bruce Lee:

LeBell: I met Bruce Lee for the first time during the filming of the TV show The Green Hornet on which he played a butler. He was a nice fellow. The stunt coordinator hired me, and I worked on quite a few episodes. During that time, I was able to get to know Bruce a little bit, and we even worked out together. He was the best martial artist of his time. Bruce and I had a bond with the martial arts, and we would get together frequently. We worked out about 10 to 12 times at his place in Los Angeles' Chinatown and at my place.

Gene LeBell with shoot fighting standout Bart Vale.When I went to his place, he showed me what he did, and I showed him what I did. Although he seemed to love the finishing holds of grappling, it just wasn't commercially attractive at the time. Actually, it was because of my grappling and tumbling background that I was hired to do the television show — because I could take falls for Bruce
I need to read Bruce Lee: A Life because it sounds like QT is making some liberal interpretations and speaking out of his ass.
 
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Jombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,392
The accident with Thurman wasn't some small hiccup, it was serious and it was 100% his fault. So yeah, he can fuck off with his cognitive dissonance there.