Queerbaiting, retconning sexuality, and heteronormativity's monopoly on happiness in TV relationships. Let's talk about it.

[brainchild]

So I randomly decided to watch season 2 of The Politician today and I have to say, it almost felt like I was watching a different show compared to season 1 (in terms of queer relationship representation). Nearly every single queer/polygamous relationship in the 2nd season (or carried over from season 1) has been 'resolved' by the characters choosing to pursue exclusively opposite sex relationships instead of same sex relationships, or the same sex relationships no longer existing/being shown.

In and of itself there is nothing wrong with bisexual/pansexual people deciding to pursue opposite sex relationships, but the way bisexuality was handled in this show really left a bad taste in my mouth as a queer person. In season 1, we're led to believe Payton (the main character) was involved in a budding same sex romance, only for it to be revealed in the next season that the River (Payton's significant other) was believed to not be gay or bisexual but just liked to be 'close' with people. Mind you, this information only comes out after River's life has ended in a tragedy (shocking, I know) and where River isn't able to explain his own sexuality from his perspective.

Honestly, a lot of my frustration with queer representation in The Politician isn't just because of how it's handled in the show's second season, but because of how it's handled in the media in general. Insidiously over time the message is clear: if you want your sex/romance life to be happy, you need to be in a straight, monogamous relationship. It does nothing but reinforce toxic cultural norms and it's disappointing to see that this is still happening in modern television where homophobia/biphobia is supposedly a thing of the past.

How do you all feel about how the entertainment industry handles topics like bisexual and polygamous relationships? Are you tired of heteronormative standards having undue influence over the outcomes of queer relationships? If so, what do you think we should do to make sure that more queer relationships are more appealing members of the LGBTQ+ community?

EDIT:

Added threadmark for a better articulated explanation of the aforementioned issues with the show's second season.

 

[crienne]

Bi folks in hetero relationships on TV just feels like an easy way to get points from the liberal audience while not completely alienating the conservative audience. And I say this as a bi person in a hetero relationship.

It sucks, but I don't see it changing for most major broadcast TV shows. Not familiar with The Politician though, so I'm not sure what channel it's on or what it's audience is likely to be.

As far as poly relationships on mainstream TV, I don't see that being a well-portrayed thing for at least another decade.

 

[New Username]

edit: deleted post

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I've not heard of The Politician, but I feel like there's still too much media out there that treats anyone bisexual as confused.

 

[echoshifting]

This is a result of biphobic culture. People have a lot of trouble perceiving all of the facets of bi/pan people at once: a bi/pan person in a same sex relationship is "gay," and a bi/pan person in an opposite sex relationship is "straight."

I'm not familiar with the Politician, but based on what you've described it doesn't sound especially problematic to me on its face. I think bi/pan characters should be allowed to be in a relationship with who they choose...where it gets problematic is the question of how they are perceived not by the audience, but by the creators of the show. Do they continue to perceive the character as bi/pan, or are they just exploiting the label while reinforcing heteronormativity?

As someone who used to identify as bi, I think it's a tough puzzle and I've only ever seen it handled well by bisexual/pansexual creators. I can think of a couple of examples in comic books, for instance. It is challenging to preserve the integrity of a bisexual character's identity without falling into the trap of portraying them as hypersexual, a harmful stereotype.

Off-topic, I've really enjoyed having you back on the board, brainchild. Great thread.

 

[Kino]

I'll always think of Lapidot when I hear queer bating.

LGBT+ and tragedy just seems to go hand in hand with so many tv shows. Even those made by queer creators. I'm really sick of it tbh.

Crazy Ex Girlfriend had a really sweet bi sexual man who came out later in life. He did ultimately end up with a woman but that arc was still very touching and unexpected.

 

[brainchild]

Bi folks in hetero relationships on TV just feels like an easy way to get points from the liberal audience while not completely alienating the conservative audience. And I say this as a bi person in a hetero relationship.

It sucks, but I don't see it changing for most major broadcast TV shows. Not familiar with The Politician though, so I'm not sure what channel it's on or what it's audience is likely to be.

As far as poly relationships on mainstream TV, I don't see that being a well-portrayed thing for at least another decade.

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You're probably right on all accounts.

The Politician is on Netflix, btw

The show is showrun by a gay man who uses his whole platform in showbusiness to make gay projects and elevate other gay creatives; and who notable has final cut and does not need to listen to any network notes. It stars a gay lead. The showrunner's previous shows have depicted polyamory. It's on a network that has a ton of queer representation, and which aired a show several years ago with a polyamorous relationship. This probably wasn't coming from the perspective of heternormativity.

The first season was awful so I didn't watch the second, which I'm sure is also awful. I can't speak to whatever they're trying to do with whatever you're trying to describe. But given the circumstances of production I think a more charitable read is probably not that they were trying to impose conservative homophobia on the audience. Isn't a more likely scenario that it's a poorly written show that navigated a time jump poorly and has no idea what it wants to be?

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I think you should watch the first few episodes of season 2. With the exception of the transgender character, everything that you mentioned in terms of queer representation has either been retconned or otherwise changed. It was definitely intentional but I guess we don't really know why. There are no gay male characters in the show now, btw.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Crazy Ex Girlfriend had a really sweet bi sexual man who came out later in life. He did ultimately end up with a woman but that arc was still very touching and unexpected

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He was the best part of the show for me

 

[echoshifting]

Crazy Ex Girlfriend had a really sweet bi sexual man who came out later in life. He did ultimately end up with a woman but that arc was still very touching and unexpected.

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Darryl is easily one of the best on TV, yeah

 

[Tfritz]

on one hand the Politician' stuff was like, yes, it's problematic, but on the other hand it doesn't seem like a specific choice because the show as a whole is so poorly written that characters' entire personalities, motivations, and relationships change from episode to episode so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Merv]

I'm a Cis male, so I might not have the right perspective, but Schitt's Creek really surprised me with how it handled it's relationships. I watched some behind the scenes stuff and Dan Levy seems to have put a lot of thought into the way gay, bi, and pan relationships are portrayed.

 

[brainchild]

on one hand the Politician' stuff was like, yes, it's problematic, but on the other hand it doesn't seem like a specific choice because the show as a whole is so poorly written that characters' entire personalities, motivations, and relationships change from episode to episode so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I'm not familiar with the Politician, but based on what you've described it doesn't sound especially problematic to me on its face. I think bi/pan characters should be allowed to be in a relationship with who they choose...where it gets problematic is the question of how they are perceived not by the audience, but by the creators of the show. Do they continue to perceive the character as bi/pan, or are they just exploiting the label while reinforcing heteronormativity?

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Payton was perceived as possibly gay but at least bisexual in season 1. In season 2 he's written as if he's mostly straight but possibly bi-curious (or maybe just biromantic but isn't really interested in any men now).

It's not my intention to debate about whether or not Payton should be with a man or a woman. That's ultimately not the issue. The issue is that we now have next to no queer/polygamous relationships in the show, which is typically how these kinds of relationships work out. The retconning of Payton's/River's relationship was probably the most egregious thing to me though, but in general I'm just tired of these kind of shenanigans.

Off-topic, I've really enjoyed having you back on the board, brainchild. Great thread.

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Thank you, and I appreciate your input. It feels good to be back.

 

[Tfritz]

The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina is guilty of this I think (it is also a poorly written show), the first season or so portrays the witches in the coven as, like, horny polygamous pansexuals, but that element seems to get dropped off and most of the characters end up in heterosexual relationships. They even manage to walk back Aunt Zelda having a girlfriend. It's certainly not as egregious as The Politician's stuff, but then really what is.

 

[brainchild]

The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina is guilty of this I think (it is also a poorly written show), the first season or so portrays the witches in the coven as, like, horny polygamous pansexuals, but that element seems to get dropped off and most of the characters end up in heterosexual relationships. They even manage to walk back Aunt Zelda having a girlfriend. It's certainly not as egregious as The Politician's stuff, but then really what is.

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Thanks for letting me know. Should I ever watch it I'll now know what to expect.

I'm a Cis male, so I might not have the right perspective, but Schitt's Creek really surprised me with how it handled it's relationships. I watched some behind the scenes stuff and Dan Levy seems to have put a lot of thought into the way gay, bi, and pan relationships are portrayed.

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As a queer person, I definitely agree. I only wish there were a lot more shows that handled such relationships just as thoughtfully.

 

[NinjaDBL]

Ryan Murphy unfortunately doesn't have the best track record with queer stories even while being queer himself. AHS proves that.

 

[Merv]

As a queer person, I definitely agree. I only wish there were a lot more shows that handled such relationships just as thoughtfully.

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I was a little worried in Season 1. I thought they were going to use Stevie to "normalize" David's sexuality. Boy was I wrong.

 

[brainchild]

I think this article does much better job in articulating the issues concerning the show's handling of queer relationships than I did. Here are some choice quotes:

Perhaps the most bizarre twist, though, is the seeming erasure of many characters' queer identities. A first season poster featured River Barkley (David Corenswet, "Hollywood"), Payton's original campaign rival for student body president, with an arm around Astrid but facing Payton. The caption read, "We promise you BI-partisanship," but the new season doesn't exactly deliver.

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Georgina sleeps with both a man and a woman on screen. There's a three-way between Alice, Astrid and Payton, but Alice only initiates it in an attempt to keep Astrid loyal to the campaign, and Astrid's motives aren't entirely clear. That's kind of it.

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The throuple could have been an interesting exploration of polyamorous relationships, but William, the third member in Dede and Marcus' marriage, leaves them for Hadassah, Dede's chief of staff (Bette Midler, "The Rose"), in the second episode when he realizes he prefers being someone's one and only.

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McAfee and Skye's relationship, which McAfee described as something she "want more than anything," goes unaddressed. There's a montage of her ending dates with both men and women, claiming in the voiceover that it's mostly women, but we only see her sleep with a man on screen. The flash-forward finale reveals she is engaged to a never-before-seen male character. Skye never has any partners mentioned.

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Prior to the start of "The Politician," Payton and River, a man, had an affair. Payton went so far as to threaten to out River in order to win the election. Though River committed suicide about midway through the show's pilot, he appears periodically in flashbacks and as a sort of spiritual guide to Payton.

As much as I love Alice, it's Payton and River who had the love story of the first season. River made Payton feel things he hadn't felt before, and the two were in love with each other, despite both dating women at the time. In the second episode of the new season, Astrid and Payton talk about their failed threesome with River. Payton claims he wasn't attracted to River and doubts he was bisexual, much less gay. Literally two lines before, Astrid says she ended the threesome before it could start because she knew without a doubt River loved Payton more than her.

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And the most salient quote:

At best, then, "The Politician" is avoiding labels. At worst, they're queerbaiting viewers, and retconning sexualities where they can.

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Season 2 of ‘The Politician’ Feels Like a Different Show

While the first season packed juicy storylines and absurdity into eight episodes, the new season tones a lot down — including the characters’ sexualities.

studybreaks.com

It covers nearly all of my sentiments about the new season. I'm surprised I didn't see more people talking about it.

I was a little worried in Season 1. I thought they were going to use Stevie to "normalize" David's sexuality. Boy was I wrong.

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Same! I was pleasantly surprised it didn't turn out as expected.

Ryan Murphy unfortunately doesn't have the best track record with queer stories even while being queer himself. AHS proves that.

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You're not the first person I've heard say this. Any other examples in particular that you have in mind?

 

[brainchild]

Sorry for the strike-through text, not sure how that happened.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

Wow, that sounds like a bad turn.

 

[G_Shumi]

I forgot about this show. It's amazing how quickly the first two seasons came and went. The two seasons are different as they were intentionally supposed to be that way, but I get what you mean, OP.

The first season was much more free with the characters' sexualities and how they were exploring it all. But by the time the end of the first season came around, a major character for the second season was in a *gasp* throuple! The scandal! I wasn't sure what the writers were going for, whether they were making fun of how politics is so straight-edged, or if the characters needed to be seen as "all-American" hetero-normative people, but it just felt off.

It was as if the characters were experimenting with their sexualities in the first season and in the second season they were over it as if it was "just a phase."

The show as a whole was very weird and, while it was entertaining, I really hope that the third season (if there will be one) goes in a different direction again.

 

[brainchild]

It was as if the characters were experimenting with their sexualities in the first season and in the second season they were over it as if it was "just a phase."

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Though in the case of Payton's/River's relationship it was made to seem as if what was portrayed as sexual wasn't actually sexual. At least with the "just a phase" approach there's some fluidity, but that retcon felt more like gaslighting. Truly baffling writing decision.

 

[MDSVeritas]

Yeah as someone who thought season 1 of The Politician was generally well-intentioned but sometimes muddled, season 2 really soured me on who these characters were going to be.

Like, undoubtedly I'd say the very heart of the show in season 1 is Payton facing the fact that his false-exterior isn't a way of living that actually makes him happy. That River actually made him happier than Alice ever had, just as Payton made River happier than Astrid ever had. And maybe this is just my reading of it as a queer guy but the narrative that was sweeping over that whole thing was a sense of "Payton and River are queer, but trying to get ahead in a world that still doesn't view queer people as equals or worthy of the same ambition". Honestly I was so invested with season 1 because they give this seed of the idea that the story was going to be about Payton slowly realizing that he was a decent and loving person under all the pretense, but that he needed to accept who he was and not try to keep pretending. And his relationship with this other compassionate man (maybe one of the few truly compassionate characters in the story) was the one time he felt close to someone. His queerness - to me- felt woven into the very fabric of the message the show was trying to impart.

But Season 2 just... isn't that. Suddenly the characters go back to their shallow facades, and at the same time their queer experiences just... all fade away. And it would be one thing if the show reinforced this as part of its message, like "hey, look at these people retreating from really exploring who they are and what really makes them happy" but honestly by the end of season 2 I have absolutely no clue what the show is trying to say, but it certainly doesn't have the sense of queer postivity I was hoping for in the start of season 1

 

[NinjaDBL]

You're not the first person I've heard say this. Any other examples in particular that you have in mind?

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I honestly don't remember. Theirs so many seasons to that show they all blend to me. Majority of it was just queer baiting.

 

[G_Shumi]

Though in the case of Payton's/River's relationship it was made to seem as if what was portrayed as sexual wasn't actually sexual. At least with the "just a phase" approach there's some fluidity, but that retcon felt more like gaslighting. Truly baffling writing decision.

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That's fair. I was surprised that River only showed up once in season 2 and he was treated as a distant memory. I get that they couldn't rely on their high school personas in season 2 but there was no evolution. It was just "these people are who they are now because we said so."

Like, undoubtedly I'd say the very heart of the show in season 1 is Payton facing the fact that his false-exterior isn't a way of living that actually makes him happy. That River actually made him happier than Alice ever had, just as Payton made River happier than Astrid ever had. And maybe this is just my reading of it as a queer guy but the narrative that was sweeping over that whole thing was a sense of "Payton and River are queer, but trying to get ahead in a world that still doesn't view queer people as equals or worthy of the same ambition". Honestly I was so invested with season 1 because they give this seed of the idea that the story was going to be about Payton slowly realizing that he was a decent and loving person under all the pretense, but that he needed to accept who he was and not try to keep pretending. And his relationship with this other compassionate man (maybe one of the few truly compassionate characters in the story) was the one time he felt close to someone. His queerness - to me- felt woven into the very fabric of the message the show was trying to impart.

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Yes, exactly. The way the show handled everyone's sexualities felt dated in a way, where being queer was still some sort of scandal, when it's much more accepted especially in a high school setting nowadays in Santa Barbara, California of all places.

 

[brainchild]

LGBT+ and tragedy just seems to go hand in hand with so many tv shows. Even those made by queer creators. I'm really sick of it tbh.

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Forgot to respond to this earlier but I really am sick of it too. It's so prevalent that it has made me hesitant to have hope for overall positive outcomes in most queer relationships I see even hinted at in TV/media.

Yeah as someone who thought season 1 of The Politician was generally well-intentioned but sometimes muddled, season 2 really soured me on who these characters were going to be.

Like, undoubtedly I'd say the very heart of the show in season 1 is Payton facing the fact that his false-exterior isn't a way of living that actually makes him happy. That River actually made him happier than Alice ever had, just as Payton made River happier than Astrid ever had. And maybe this is just my reading of it as a queer guy but the narrative that was sweeping over that whole thing was a sense of "Payton and River are queer, but trying to get ahead in a world that still doesn't view queer people as equals or worthy of the same ambition". Honestly I was so invested with season 1 because they give this seed of the idea that the story was going to be about Payton slowly realizing that he was a decent and loving person under all the pretense, but that he needed to accept who he was and not try to keep pretending. And his relationship with this other compassionate man (maybe one of the few truly compassionate characters in the story) was the one time he felt close to someone. His queerness - to me- felt woven into the very fabric of the message the show was trying to impart.

But Season 2 just... isn't that. Suddenly the characters go back to their shallow facades, and at the same time their queer experiences just... all fade away. And it would be one thing if the show reinforced this as part of its message, like "hey, look at these people retreating from really exploring who they are and what really makes them happy" but honestly by the end of season 2 I have absolutely no clue what the show is trying to say, but it certainly doesn't have the sense of queer postivity I was hoping for in the start of season 1

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I feel all of this. My sentiments exactly.

I honestly don't remember. Theirs so many seasons to that show they all blend to me. Majority of it was just queer baiting.

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Interesting. I've seen many people recommend the show for people who want to watch something with queer representation, but now I don't know what that means. Are there any actual LGBTQ+ characters in the show or is it only queerbaiting?

Yes, exactly. The way the show handled everyone's sexualities felt dated in a way, where being queer was still some sort of scandal, when it's much more accepted especially in a high school setting nowadays in Santa Barbara, California of all places.

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Good point.