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Queer characters demonstrably written by straight people you still actually really love
- Thread starter Weiss
- Start date
It's gotta be Willow for me. I don't believe she was written by anyone that was actually gay themselves.
I can't think of many gay characters that stay front and centre throughout a show's run and have character development rivalling, if not exceeding, basically everyone else in the show. Somehow she managed to go from the meek nerdy kid that knew how to turn on a computer to one of the most powerful witches anyone had ever seen that could make even gods bleed.
I especially liked how she wasn't just "the gay character" and was actually allowed to explore and understand her own sexuality. It both managed to be something she wasn't defined by yet, at the same time, it was the catalyst for her actions on more than one occasion so it wasn't just irrelevant to her character either.
It was also very important that other characters accepted her when she came out to them and I actually liked how none of them really made a big deal out of it. I think there's always that fear that if you come out to your roommate, they might move out because they feel uncomfortable. Yet Buffy never did and Willow and Tara even moved into Buffy's home in the later seasons.
I can't think of many gay characters that stay front and centre throughout a show's run and have character development rivalling, if not exceeding, basically everyone else in the show. Somehow she managed to go from the meek nerdy kid that knew how to turn on a computer to one of the most powerful witches anyone had ever seen that could make even gods bleed.
I especially liked how she wasn't just "the gay character" and was actually allowed to explore and understand her own sexuality. It both managed to be something she wasn't defined by yet, at the same time, it was the catalyst for her actions on more than one occasion so it wasn't just irrelevant to her character either.
It was also very important that other characters accepted her when she came out to them and I actually liked how none of them really made a big deal out of it. I think there's always that fear that if you come out to your roommate, they might move out because they feel uncomfortable. Yet Buffy never did and Willow and Tara even moved into Buffy's home in the later seasons.
from my memories of the game (which are admittedly a little hazy) a huge part of the 2nd half of the game is that character having a heart to heart with a parent about their queer behaviour (though I don't think the game ever goes too much into sexual preference)
Ellie from the Last of Us.
I just really relate to a lot of her story and character, like I remember wanting to tell the girl that I liked that I liked her and being too chicken to do it before we grew apart. And then in the second game, I really connected to the journals she wrote about not being sure how to come out to Joel, which reflected my own struggles to come out to my father and wondering what he'd think of me. On top of that, I've also suffered painful and unexpected loss so I connected with her feelings of anger and confusion in the second game. I know a lot of people didn't like where her character went in Part II but for me, I felt so connected to her, even after already connecting to her a lot in Left Behind.
Hah, I'm writing a LTTP on 13S and boy do I have feelings on Okino and Hijiyama.
For what it's worth, I read Okino as being somewhat socially awkward and detached from his feelings. Sort of like the opposite version of Hijiyama who is also awkward, but displays it by being very passionate and boisterous. So Okino doesn't really know how to show his feelings for Hijiyama in any other way other than teasing. But you can see moments like when Hijiyama tries to share his Yakisoba pan where Okino seems genuinely touched and also somewhat genuinely hurt when Hijiyama rejects his love letter before he covers it up with teasing.
I enjoyed their relationship so much that it actually kinda elevated the game for me (was super shocked that they didn't just dismiss it) but it's absolutely not without flaws despite being one of my favorite parts of the game. I do think it helps that, as you said, a lot of the straight romances are kinda awkwardly written and the characters don't have much chemistry at all.
Also as someone who is genderfluid, Okino also spoke to me in how comfortable he is moving between different presentations (I get that it's debatable if he actually IDs that way but still).
That's so awesome! I'll definitely have to move it up then. Considering there's not a lot to watch lately due to the pandemic, I'm sure I'll get to it soon. Thanks!
Ellie, Dina and *spoiler character* from TLOU II.
Yeah, Bon Clay is one of my favorite characters.
Bon Clay from One Piece
Might genuinely be my favorite OP character. He starts off as a villain but quickly befriends the Straw Hats going as far as sacrificing his crew for them to make an escape after an amazing speech. But that isn't even the start of his greatness. He muuuuch later makes a reappearance and aids Luffy in his breakout from the world's highest security prison in an effort to rescue his brother. The struggle and badassery Bon Clay exhibits here makes him GOAT material. From his fighting prowess to his emotional support, Bon Clay is exemplifies everything an admirable character should be. Luffy might very well be dead without him in this arc. I won't spoil it, but his departure at the end of this ordeal is one of the most heartbreaking moments in the series. Luffy owes this man his life, and every reader their respect.
Yeah, Bon Clay is one of my favorite characters.
The worst queer characters are the ones that emulate the way black women speak. Sounds like verbal blackface.
Not just for the queer rep, but because she's all-around fantastic- Bill Potts, from Doctor Who.
God the assistants in the new run are awful. Sooo boring.
Hence why Franky has a lot of Ace Ventura affect.
Franky's final character design was built around Oda liking the performance that Bon Clay's voice actor gave, and that Jim Carrey-ness is part of it. I say final since you can see prototype Franky in the original Prototype Straw Hats, which contains all of the current crew in some form except Robin and Jinbei.
Shows by Writer and Showrunner Ryan Murphy.
For a recent example 9-1-1 and 9-1-1 Lone Star.
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Immediately thought of Taako. The Kravitz stuff feels kinda forced but I like the general approach they have to playing LGBTQ+ characters where it's a part of them, but not the central focus or something they feel the need to reiterate every five minutes.
Yeah I totally agree with you. Yakushiji is absolutely a similar level of toxic/concerning in terms of how she approaches her romance with Juro, and I think the game peppers in enough moments (like Okino asking Hijiyama to throw out a can of cat food and Hijiyama realizing he's left money under the can for Hijiyama to buy Yakisoba Pan with) where I think they sell me on the romantic feelings being reciprocated and appreciated even if the methods and communications between the two veer into some frustrating territory.
Completely agreed about the datalog though. It may be a small part of the story but it meant a lot that the writers removed any vagueness or misdirection and just committed to saying "hey these two men love each other and are married." which is maybe the first time I've seen something like that in Japanese media and was really cool
No problem, I hope you like it!
Yeah for the longest time Murphy was the one case I knew of where a queer writer was actually writing queer stories that made it to people's TVs
More recently (and, imo, to greater success than Murphy) I think Dan Levy's writing on Schitt's Creek and how he portrays being queer in the show both in the delightful campiness of David and the legitimately heartfelt romance that happens season 3-6, is probably the best case I currently know of where a queer creator has gotten the chance to write a queer story with a wide audience.
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I'd agree but would maybe say "queer" instead - Dan is gay, but David is very much pansexual and so I don't think it tracks to say he has a "gay" story. Even if a pan person ends up with a gay person like what happens in the show, they're still pan and their story is still (significantly, given the lack of representation) a pan one.
Reo and Mabu ( Sarazanmai) : From literally the gay cops trope to fully fledged tragic villains with one of the most successful thematically and symbolic resolutions of queer relationship in recent memory. I might be cheating here since Ikuhara's sexuality is not a known quantity (and all his shows are filled with Queer characters in a wide spectrum).
I really liked their back and forth. Hijijama is such a good boy. I think they use Okino as a very stereotypical tease to make their relationship capitalize on the premise of how different their background is. I do think it's silly how they are still teasing each other by the end but alas it is clear they love each other.
Hijiyama and Okino from 13 sentinels. I don't know much about their overall reception, at least had a buddy that found them pretty bad, but their relationship really resonated with me. I identified a lot with Hijiyama's confusion in coming to terms with his bisexuality, however clumsily it's been written.
I really liked their back and forth. Hijijama is such a good boy. I think they use Okino as a very stereotypical tease to make their relationship capitalize on the premise of how different their background is. I do think it's silly how they are still teasing each other by the end but alas it is clear they love each other.
Ellie from the Last of Us.
I just really relate to a lot of her story and character, like I remember wanting to tell the girl that I liked that I liked her and being too chicken to do it before we grew apart. And then in the second game, I really connected to the journals she wrote about not being sure how to come out to Joel, which reflected my own struggles to come out to my father and wondering what he'd think of me. On top of that, I've also suffered painful and unexpected loss so I connected with her feelings of anger and confusion in the second game. I know a lot of people didn't like where her character went in Part II but for me, I felt so connected to her, even after already connecting to her a lot in Left Behind.
Ellie was extremely relatable for me as well. Her half of the game meant the world to me.
It's gotta be Willow for me. I don't believe she was written by anyone that was actually gay themselves.
I can't think of many gay characters that stay front and centre throughout a show's run and have character development rivalling, if not exceeding, basically everyone else in the show. Somehow she managed to go from the meek nerdy kid that knew how to turn on a computer to one of the most powerful witches anyone had ever seen that could make even gods bleed.
I especially liked how she wasn't just "the gay character" and was actually allowed to explore and understand her own sexuality. It both managed to be something she wasn't defined by yet, at the same time, it was the catalyst for her actions on more than one occasion so it wasn't just irrelevant to her character either.
It was also very important that other characters accepted her when she came out to them and I actually liked how none of them really made a big deal out of it. I think there's always that fear that if you come out to your roommate, they might move out because they feel uncomfortable. Yet Buffy never did and Willow and Tara even moved into Buffy's home in the later seasons.
I watched buffy relatively recently, and liked a lot about Willow.
However, when they were doing her arc about misuse of magic building up to the end of season 6 and all that stuff they made a really questionable decision to have Willow essentially rape Tara using mind altering magic. And then in Tabula Rasa when Tara tells her how wrong that was and uses the term "violated", Willow still uses mind altering magic again.
Its really tough to feel warm about Willow as a character because of that. At least Spike had the shitty fantasy world excuse of not having his soul at the time.
True! Definitely don't mean to minimize David's pansexuality as they also do a great job addressing that (the wine scene in the show is one of the most nicely succinct ways of explaining sexuality that way that I've found for some straight friends and family). Some of that comes down to just my own use of the terminology. I'm bisexual but have slowly slipped further into using the term gay in a more umbrellas fashion in the way any LGBT person may say "oh my gay heart" despite not necessarily being a specifically homosexual man (Dan Howell's coming out video has a good explanation that I find aligns with some of my thinking on why I find that easier) so gay is perhaps more short-hand for queer in my vernacular than it necessarily should be, but I for sure recognize that it's important to make sure that language usage isn't causing unintended erasure for bi, pan and other such folks, especially as one of those people who has a lot of frustrations around some of that erasure. Appreciate the correction!
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This book is so good. As the first book I read that was willing to be unabashedly romantic about two male leads it was just such a refreshing read.