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Quantic Dream: The shader cores of the Xbox are more suitable to machine learning
- Thread starter Alucardx23
- Start date
Yes, AMD is working on it, Sony has patent too. We will see more about DLSS in future.
Sony Patent Suggests DLSS-Like Sampling Technique Could Be Used On PS5 Games - PlayStation Universe
A new Sony patent suggests that DLSS-Like sampling techniques could be used on PS5 games to make the PS5 more efficient and productive.
www.psu.com
A Ryzen 7 is more powerful than an Intel 7700k, but for games the 7700k is faster.
Has he got access to them?
I thought devs who do generally stay quiet during these comparisons?
Sounds like he's talking from general knowledge of the tech.
So David Cage's opinion matters all of a sudden? It seemingly didn't a few weeks ago.
www.resetera.com
David Cage: Xsx and Xss dual console strategy is "questionable" and "confusing" News
Having multiple consoles with different specs is similar to the environment on PC, where various configurations, graphic cards, and other features make development “much more complex”, he said. “When a manufacturer offers two consoles with different specs, there is a strong chance that most...
www.resetera.com
Those aren't GPUs.
Colloquially the fastest GPU has always meant the most powerful. I'm not sure why you are convinced otherwise.
OP
OP
That is definitely true for this gen, but we already know how much Microsoft has improved their first party studios. This will have an effect on the quality of the exclusive games we will see on the XSX.
If PS5 hasn't got INT8/4 support then someone is getting sacked. The XSX is some piece of engineering and design.
OP
OP
Yes, so far we haven't seen Sony talking about this. If that is the case, that is the advantage David Cage is talking about.
"We knew that many inference algorithms need only 8-bit and 4-bit integer positions for weights and the math operations involving those weights comprise the bulk of the performance overhead for those algorithms," says Andrew Goossen. "So we added special hardware support for this specific scenario. The result is that Series X offers 49 TOPS for 8-bit integer operations and 97 TOPS for 4-bit integer operations. Note that the weights are integers, so those are TOPS and not TFLOPs. The net result is that Series X offers unparalleled intelligence for machine learning."
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
www.eurogamer.net
i think so too. They seem to have made a lot of investments which will probably pay off down the line. drvs have just begun to get a hang of the latest dev kits and I expect much more improvements in the coming months and years.
This.
The console warriors are heavy in here. Funny how preordering one or the other somehow makes you more knowledgeable than people who've actually developed games and have devkits.
Didn't they already say the Series X has ~100 "TOPs" of machine learning performance? RTX 2060 has 2x that, but I think that just means less time to do the "DLSS" part of rendering, which is to say that Xbox would gain less performance than RTX cards using similar methods.
same goes for the full RDNA2 spec implementation vs PS5's somewhat custom but likely pretty much the same implementation. Xbox adhering to the standard would make it better for generic GPGPU workloads
Because of how shitty these threads get because of console warriors from both sides.
Vega 64 vs. Vega 56 Clock-for-Clock Shader Comparison (Gaming)
We’re putting that knowledge to the test on Vega architecture, equalizing the Vega 56 & Vega 64 clocks (and HBM2 clocks) to determine how much of a difference emerges from the 4096 shaders on V64 to 3584 shaders on V56. -
Revisit: Vega 56 & 64 At Same Clocks, From 800MHz to 1020MHz HBM2
This content piece looks at a mix of clock scalability for Vega across a few key clocks (for core and HBM2), and hopes to constrain for a CU difference, to some extent. -
I haven't checked for more recent tests but this is just food for thought.
Less compute units but higher clock, or more compute units with slower clock. I understand it is a different architecture sure, but we'll see in a few weeks anyway.
Colloquially the most powerful GPU has always meant the highest performance (fps and resolution) if the GPU is the only variable. Would you agree on that?
So David Cage's opinion matters all of a sudden? It seemingly didn't a few weeks ago.
David Cage: Xsx and Xss dual console strategy is "questionable" and "confusing" News
Having multiple consoles with different specs is similar to the environment on PC, where various configurations, graphic cards, and other features make development “much more complex”, he said. “When a manufacturer offers two consoles with different specs, there is a strong chance that most...
He's a clown, no matter what "side" he is.
Game developer Quantic Dream accused of 'toxic' and 'sexist' working environment
The two French studio heads behind supernatural adventure Beyond: Two Souls face accusations of inappropriate behaviour towards staff
www.theguardian.com
I read that as possibly more a reference to drivers and APIs and such rather than games specifically. Microsoft has seemingly always prioritised compatibility over the leanest performance possible. Though I think it unlikely that will make a huge difference to end results vs what the hardware specs suggest.
User Banned (3 days): Antagonizing another user; derailing thread
Well this thread isn't 2 pages of people shitting on David Cage so it'll stay open
There's ton of evidence that the shader cores are not exactly the same between them.
Including a Sony engineer that did say there wasn't hardware for ML acceleration on ps5.
Well anyway if their implementation will be even close to as effective as DLSS 2.0 on RTX cards I can't wait to see it utilized for making games have RT and okay frame-rates in pretty much as good visual quality as 4K this gen. It really makes a difference.
I think he meant hardware architecture + APIs. Many devs where prizing PS5 architecture during reveal.
It'll be very interesting when Sony discusses their customizations, Hopefully before GDC 2021.
Microsoft were really talking up their machine learning tech earlier this year, and the console is clearly designed with it in mind for the future. Interesting to see what becomes of it.
Should be a fun generation. Both consoles have their bespoke bells and whistles.
Should be a fun generation. Both consoles have their bespoke bells and whistles.
With the power of machine learning videogames will finally be able to display emotions. Also, I love workplace harassment
- David Cage, probably.
- David Cage, probably.
This was always know. MS made a custom addition regarding machine learning on XBSX/S. Int4 and Int8 capailities more specifically iirc. We also have some reports that Sony hasn't made such additions to the PS5 GPU.
Yeah, that's exactly the plan. MS can lose much more money than Sony on the Xbox Series X because it was made to be multi-purpose. It can be either integrated to their Azure Services or as a game console.
In computing, 'faster' has always been about carrying out more operations per second and not about clock speed.
All machine learning is, by nature, hardware accelerated when running on a GPU. GPUs are the perfect hardware for running ML. The ML the XSX GPU is capable of will just be using some of the general compute power to do ML. The additional hardware is to allow it to do ML using FP16, INT8 and I believe INT4. Running ML at INT4 on GPUs capable of it, rather than standard FP32 GPU process, gives you 8x the performance as you're only using 4 bits per value rather than 32 bits. It allows you to pack 8 computations into a single compute. This might be what they are talking about here, but whether allowing INT4/8 will be useful remains to be seen.
We don't know what the PS5 supports but it should at least have FP16 in addition to FP32, as the Pro had that, but it was never used for anything afaik. But RDNA2 does not have anything which is equivalent to the Turing cores on the 2000 and 3000 series which is true dedicated ML hardware - but it just allows for the RESULT of a pre-trained network to be very quickly computed, like in DLSS, where a frame is supplied to a pretrained network and then it spits out a 4K frame (or whatever res you've set to upscale to).
I would be interested in seeing the comments by that Sony engineer though, I had not heard about them.
Forgive me if I've got this wrong, but isn't the Xbox algorithm for auto hdr, also based on machine learning (or something similar) ?
So the fastest gaming CPU would be.. Threadripper 3990X? Seeing as it can carry out more operations per second with it's 64 logical cores compared to the 6 core i5-10600K.
They do;
Any task which does not use a GPU or CPUs' additional cores would benefit from increased clock speed.
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Lmao.. Looking for a gotcha moment? wasn't it just confirmed by MS in a tweet which also had AMD in it, that XSX has full Rdna2 integration and they waited until they could get all the tech before finalizing their hardware? Also insiders confirmed dev kits going out late, XsX has a lot of tech which will take some time to gradp. facts. ... stop over thinking my posts. lol
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