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Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
991
New Zealand
I just realised, I can't seem to enable the non-deathmatch maps for multiplayer, given I've been in games that included the Entrance map and the like. Is there any way to do this?

Gonna feel like a right dope if I've overlooked something.
You have bots enabled. This restricts the map selection to only levels with bot nodes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
So.. anyone else have the game crash and just fucking straight up destroy your saved games? It crashed on my PS4 and broke my save halfway through episode 2 of Scourge of Armagon (and my save at the final level of Quake) and Hell naw if I can be arsed to play all that again 😭😭
 

Deleted member 2317

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,072
This is how this port makes me feel:

elmo-elmo-dance.gif
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
991
New Zealand
So.. anyone else have the game crash and just fucking straight up destroy your saved games? It crashed on my PS4 and broke my save halfway through episode 2 of Scourge of Armagon (and my save at the final level of Quake) and Hell naw if I can be arsed to play all that again 😭😭
This is/was potentially an issue with PS4 file handles where some of them didn't close properly. This causes them to eventually run out, and presumably it crashes while the save mount is open. This was entirely guess work however as we never reproduced the issue.
Assuming that was the issue, it's fixed upstream.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
This is/was potentially an issue with PS4 file handles where some of them didn't close properly. This causes them to eventually run out, and presumably it crashes while the save mount is open. This was entirely guess work however as we never reproduced the issue.
Assuming that was the issue, it's fixed upstream.

Thanks. Hope there'll be a patch that fixes the issue. I had such a good time, and then the crash wiped my saves.. 😢
 

RossC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,545
Still loving this. Just finished Dissolution of Eternity and moving onto Dimension of the Past.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
It's not gonna be on my GOTY list due to my self imposed 'no remasters/re-releases on the list' rule but this has been my favourite thing I've played all year.

Quake fucking rules and Nightdive knocked it out of the park as always.

I live for Quake 1. Almost done with the new episodes on Nightmare. Then on to Quake 64 again.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,563
Same here. First time with Quake and I've already gone through Dimension of the Machine multiple times. So much love poured into this

This makes me weirdly happy to read considering I wasn't even particularly about these shooters until last year.

Getting into the Doom games thanks to the remasters (hmm, still need to check out Doom 3...) left me badly wanting for Quake to get a similar treatment, so this release was a fantastic surprise. Easily my highlight of the year in that sense. It didn't disappoint, either, because the game/package is absolutely incredible.

Probably a GOTY candidate, yeah.
 

ChemicalWorld

Member
Dec 6, 2017
1,739
Currently working my way through Dimensions of the Machine.

By far the best FPS I've played this year. I never bothered to play Quake before (even though my mate at the time told me I was missing out. Correct) but man I honestly feel that this is ids best FPS game. I def prefer this to every other game they've made.

I really do hope that Machine Games tackle a new Quake and go full on deep into the lovecraftian vibe.
 

Awakened

Member
Oct 27, 2017
506
Quake fucking rules and Nightdive knocked it out of the park as always.
Nope, the Kex port has way too slow deceleration when moving (you slide much further before stopping), and the weird blurring on certain objects moving at high framerate looks bad. It feels way less fun to play compared to vkquake's rock solid FPS and less slippery movement. The Kex port is only really nice for easy multiplayer until that stuff gets patched.

Great thing about this release though is that it got me to finally try Arcane Dimensions in vkquake. Those levels are way too neat and almost every one surprised me in some way. Taking apart these huge, intricately designed maps made me really appreciate Quake 1. And I also love how they made the shotguns fire projectile spread instead of being hitscan.
 

thankyoumerzbow

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2020
8,401
the oldest fps ive ever played its halo ce, in general i say i really like the gente at least in like the last 20 years. for someone that has never played something like this do you think i would like it? and how does the game hold up on series x?
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
991
New Zealand
Nope, the Kex port has way too slow deceleration when moving (you slide much further before stopping),
We haven't changed anything about the player physics, it's straight up the WinQuake code. This isn't some remake into an entirely different engine, after all, it's still the same code base, always was.

and the weird blurring on certain objects moving at high framerate looks bad.
This sounds like you have motion blur turned on.
 
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Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,083
San Jose, Costa Rica
It's not gonna be on my GOTY list due to my self imposed 'no remasters/re-releases on the list' rule but this has been my favourite thing I've played all year.

Quake fucking rules and Nightdive knocked it out of the park as always.

I live for Quake 1. Almost done with the new episodes on Nightmare. Then on to Quake 64 again.

It is my GOTY so far. I cant stop thinking about it, and even when I actively try to find flaws, I end up loving the experience. Your self imposed rule is weird, you are not playing this at 320x240 at 20 fps like in your memories, after all, you are really getting a 2021 game-experience now.

Nope, the Kex port has way too slow deceleration when moving (you slide much further before stopping), and the weird blurring on certain objects moving at high framerate looks bad. It feels way less fun to play compared to vkquake's rock solid FPS and less slippery movement. The Kex port is only really nice for easy multiplayer until that stuff gets patched.

Great thing about this release though is that it got me to finally try Arcane Dimensions in vkquake. Those levels are way too neat and almost every one surprised me in some way. Taking apart these huge, intricately designed maps made me really appreciate Quake 1. And I also love how they made the shotguns fire projectile spread instead of being hitscan.

It controls exactly the same as my previous Steam and Original Shareware Disc executables. I am playing it in both Steam and the Series X. This is top tier work.
 

Awakened

Member
Oct 27, 2017
506
We haven't changed anything about the player physics, it's straight up the WinQuake code. This isn't some remake into an entirely different engine, after all, it's still the same code base, always was.
vkquake does have two "Always Run" options, "Vanilla" and "Quakespasm". I'm not really feeling a difference in deceleration speed between the two though. I suppose it's possible even the "Vanilla" setting isn't accurate to OG Quake, since I haven't touched it without a source port in forever.

I have seen one other person mention this on Discord:
Movement is a bit off in the remake
It seems more skatey/floaty. Blood Fresh Supply had the same problem, until they patched it
Blame KEX Engine

This sounds like you have motion blur turned on.
One of the first things I always turn off, so it wasn't that (I didn't notice blurring on enemy or camera movement for example.) I was looking at the edge of a moving platform (elevator) and it was sort of jittering giving it a blurry look. It looked perfectly clear and moved smoothly in vkquake. This is on a 144hz Gsync display. I thought it was something like what Pargon mentioned earlier in the thread, but could be unrelated.
 

Midee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,472
CA, USA
vkquake does have two "Always Run" options, "Vanilla" and "Quakespasm". I'm not really feeling a difference in deceleration speed between the two though. I suppose it's possible even the "Vanilla" setting isn't accurate to OG Quake, since I haven't touched it without a source port in forever.
Gonna need a little better source on this because I just played a few levels in vkquake and aside from viewbob being off by default in kexquake, they felt exactly the same.
 

Awakened

Member
Oct 27, 2017
506
Gonna need a little better source on this because I just played a few levels in vkquake and aside from viewbob being off by default in kexquake, they felt exactly the same.
My bad, seems like it was a Vsync lag thing rather than the actual game physics. I set kexquake's FPS cap to 120 and it felt a lot better. Leaving it uncapped must have been causing Vsync to engage, which adds lag. I have vkquake set to a 141 FPS cap (3 below my max refresh as advised for Gsync), but only saw 120 and 165 options in kexquake's GUI, so I didn't initially want to cap it that low.

I also recorded the elevator in the first level at 120FPS in both ports for comparison. The elevator's floor texture looks dead smooth in vkquake, but "vibrates" a little in kex. Maybe vkquake is interpolating the motion there?
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
991
New Zealand
I have seen one other person mention this on Discord:
Given Quake and Blood are two entirely different code bases that couldn't have any less to do with each other, you probably shouldn't take much (any) stake in such an analysis. :V

Important thing to remember; Kex ports aren't quite like other games. Kex doesn't provide a physics engine or anything like that, we port in the games existing framework and logic, then adapt the renderer and input to use our crossplatform APIs, sort of a step above how the classic Doom port worked (they are the original game using Unity as an I/O shim, even for the software renderer which is just turned into a texture for Unity to render). For Quake this involved porting over WinQuake. For Blood, disassembling the original executable and porting that across.

This is opposed to how other remasters typically are made, like say the Spyro games that were completely remade in Unreal4, including trying to emulate the original physics and behaviours where possible in Unreal's physics engine. It legitimately is a different game.

My bad, seems like it was a Vsync lag thing rather than the actual game physics. I set kexquake's FPS cap to 120 and it felt a lot better. Leaving it uncapped must have been causing Vsync to engage, which adds lag. I have vkquake set to a 141 FPS cap (3 below my max refresh as advised for Gsync), but only saw 120 and 165 options in kexquake's GUI, so I didn't initially want to cap it that low.

I also recorded the elevator in the first level at 120FPS in both ports for comparison. The elevator's floor texture looks dead smooth in vkquake, but "vibrates" a little in kex. Maybe vkquake is interpolating the motion there?

This is probably the crux of it, the way we handle sub frames appears to be quite different from other ports. Of note, we have sub frames. The host framerate is permanently locked to 60, and then we interpolate entities and the camera for any frames higher on the client renderer. This way we can keep the physics locked without introducing any of the weird physics anomalies that start to creep in at >60 hz. Nobody has really brought up anything weird about our interpolator until now (we originally made it for Forsaken) so it's kind of tricky separating the wheat from the chaff in terms of complaints regarding it. Though I have made a tweak upstream for it that may address an issue with its precision at non-round framerates, as it had a integer introduced in the equation that was potentially stripping off some rounding values. Not exactly an easy thing to confirm though (Sam and I regularly play at 144hz and 155hz and we didn't notice anything particularly wrong).

The vibration you're noticing is probably the elevator still moving at 60hz and without any interpolation. We'll see if there's anything we can do about that down the line. Quake's client/server system makes this a rather complicated issue to address, as the client lacks a lot of temporal knowledge and in fact doesn't even run a local simulation, unlike QuakeWorld and other later titles. Adding client player prediction to online multiplayer was not fun for this. :V
 
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Awakened

Member
Oct 27, 2017
506
Given Quake and Blood are two entirely different code bases that couldn't have any less to do with each other, you probably shouldn't take much (any) stake in such an analysis. :V

Important thing to remember; Kex ports aren't quite like other games. Kex doesn't provide a physics engine or anything like that, we port in the games existing framework and long, then adapt the renderer and input to use our crossplatform APIs, sort of a step above how the classic Doom port worked (they are the original game using Unity as an I/O shim, even for the software renderer which is just turned into a texture for Unity to render). For Quake this involved porting over WinQuake. For Blood, disassembling the original executable and porting that across.

This is opposed to how other remasters typically are made, like say the Spyro games that were completely remade in Unreal4, including trying to emulate the original physics and behaviours where possible in Unreal's physics engine. It legitimately is a different game.



This is probably the crux of it, the way we handle sub frames appears to be quite different from other ports. Of note, we have sub frames. The host framerate is permanently locked to 60, and then we interpolate entities and the camera for any frames higher on the client renderer. This way we can keep the physics locked without introducing any of the weird physics anomalies that start to creep in at >60 hz. Nobody has really brought up anything weird about our interpolator until now (we originally made it for Forsaken) so it's kind of tricky separating the wheat from the chaff in terms of complaints regarding it. Though I have made a tweak upstream for it that may address an issue with its precision at non-round framerates, as it had a integer introduced in the equation that was potentially stripping off some rounding values. Not exactly an easy thing to confirm though (Sam and I regularly play at 144hz and 155hz and we didn't notice anything particularly wrong).

The vibration you're noticing is probably the elevator still moving at 60hz and without any interpolation. We'll see if there's anything we can do about that down the line. Quake's client/server system makes this a rather complicated issue to address, as the client lacks a lot of temporal knowledge and in fact doesn't even run a local simulation, unlike QuakeWorld and other later titles. Adding client player prediction to online multiplayer was not fun for this. :V
First off, thanks for the detailed, informative post!

I also just noticed if I simply look at a wall and strafe left or right without touching the mouse, the motion of the wall "moving" looks like a lower framerate compared to vkquake. Before testing that I changed "seta cl_engineFPS" to 141 in kexengine.ini to match vkquake's cap, so both are outputting the same FPS. So I assume even basic perceived movement is locked to 60fps like the elevator. That would be another thing that made the kex port feel worse to me initially.

vkquake's github readme does mention: "Code ported from QuakeSpasm-Spiked makes it possible to run the game at over 72FPS without breaking physics."
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
991
New Zealand
So, when is the mod support coming??
It never left. Anything that worked for vanilla Quake still works now*, but now it's mostly limit removing (anything you see in DotM you have access to yourself) plus you have added functionality for changing games from the console, via the "game" console command.

* Anything sensible. If you have a mod that abused things like stuffcmd, it's basically a write off due to the remote execution security issues surrounding it.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
It never left. Anything that worked for vanilla Quake still works now*, but now it's mostly limit removing (anything you see in DotM you have access to yourself) plus you have added functionality for changing games from the console, via the "game" console command.

* Anything sensible. If you have a mod that abused things like stuffcmd, it's basically a write off due to the remote execution security issues surrounding it.
I will need to look into it. Is this mainly on the PC side or is there ways to get the mods running on console?
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
PC only for running stuff unrestricted. You can't ever side load stuff on consoles unmoderated, so they are presently restricted to whatever we stick on the addon server.
Thanks for the updates. In regards to the addon server for consoles, do you have a shortlist of titles you are planning on adding down the line?
 

Planet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358
Edward850 all your talk about high frequencies makes the wait on any word about current gen console versions more difficult. Please give us some rough time frame for peace of mind.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
991
New Zealand
Thanks for the updates. In regards to the addon server for consoles, do you have a shortlist of titles you are planning on adding down the line?
Not personally. That's out of my hands.
Edward850 all your talk about high frequencies makes the wait on any word about current gen console versions more difficult. Please give us some rough time frame for peace of mind.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Likewise with this. As this is not a Nightdive published game, that information isn't for me to reveal, unfortunately.
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
991
New Zealand
You know, despite the fact I have "show full rooms" enabled, I have yet to see a room from the game browser that is full. I guess a fix for that will be coming soon.
Ah yeah I disabled that master server side for now, as Quake's old server browser code had a listing limit of 16 that I completely forgot about. Once that's fixed on the client, I'll turn that off on the master server.

Edit: Thinking on that, I already have a check to see if the return list is full, so I moved the full lobby check into the full list check. I've modified master server so you can now see full lobbies if there is room to show them.
 
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b00_thegh0st

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,017
Edward850 I have a very naive question concerning your release that has more to do with my interest in gaming than Quake in particular: how did you guys settle for a 95° default FoV for this remaster rather than let's say 105° which is closer to what I've always read is the equivalent of 90° on a 4:3 monitor? This is purely out of curiosity.

Edit: I'm asking because I double-dipped (Switch and Steam) and I can't seem to find an answer on what's the ideal FoV depending on screen size and distance to screen.
 
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RossC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,545
On to the last expansion - Dimension of the Machine. Got 1 Rune so far, enjoying the different setup with the hub.

All the expansions have been fun, Scourge of Armagon has been my favourite - potentially better than the main game I think.
 
Jul 14, 2018
1,527
Philadelphia
Wow, some levels in Dimension of the Past were absolute bullshit. Feels like MachineGames completely forgot that health and armor drops are things that exist.

Machine was pretty great though.
 

Midee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,472
CA, USA
I enjoy playing co-op with console players because it's pretty clear a lot of them have never played before, and I feel like a veteran showing the rookies around. Jumping around to show them the secrets, etc. Good stuff.

I also double dipped on the Switch version, which plays great except for one issue: for some reason it has sound latency. Like, quite a bit. The controls themselves are responsive and fine (save for whatever joystick issues there are), but I feel like the sound effects take over twice as long to trigger as they do on PC.
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
991
New Zealand
Edward850 I have a very naive question concerning your release that has more to do with my interest in gaming than Quake in particular: how did you guys settle for a 95° default FoV for this remaster rather than let's say 105° which is closer to what I've always read is the equivalent of 90° on a 4:3 monitor? This is purely out of curiosity.

Edit: I'm asking because I double-dipped (Switch and Steam) and I can't seem to find an answer on what's the ideal FoV depending on screen size and distance to screen.
Honestly? I think we just picked what felt right for us on that one. Quake has a horizontal FOV and a wider aspect ratio expands to view horizontally, so expanding the FOV from 4:3 shouldn't be necessary. Though I do think viewing distance will play a big part. We personally don't play from a couch, mostly just at the desk and with remote debugging window views from the consoles, which probably makes the FOV a smidge wide for some console players at a distance.
 

safety_lite

Member
Jan 16, 2018
218
Chicago, IL
Started playing through Scourge of Armagon tonight. Really enjoying the level design so far. It's fun messing around with the new weapons too.

I've been watching playthroughs of Arcane Dimensions and it looks incredible. Really hoping I'll be able to try these out on Switch at some point.
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,674
México
I had never finished a single player Quake game before, because I would quickly loose interest and go straight into multiplayer. Gave it a chance and just finished the initial 4 episodes. It was excellent, now I'm going to start the expansions.
 

Deleted member 15476

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,268
Got to say Dimension of the Machine did some very sweet stuff, with Hell or Dark Water standing out. We even got a fair attempt at a climactic final showdown. Pretty nice package overall.
 

b00_thegh0st

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,017
Honestly? I think we just picked what felt right for us on that one. Quake has a horizontal FOV and a wider aspect ratio expands to view horizontally, so expanding the FOV from 4:3 shouldn't be necessary. Though I do think viewing distance will play a big part. We personally don't play from a couch, mostly just at the desk and with remote debugging window views from the consoles, which probably makes the FOV a smidge wide for some console players at a distance.

Oh allright so it's like most source ports that expand the horizontal fov based on resolution aspect ratio. So to get the 1996 original fov I should set it to 90 and leave it at that?

Thanks again for all these answers.

On a side note I tried low res on undocked Switch for the first time today and strangely it looks different from the 1080p rendering. Does low res render at the same internal resolution regardless of actual screen res?
 

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,905
Germany
On to the last expansion - Dimension of the Machine. Got 1 Rune so far, enjoying the different setup with the hub.

All the expansions have been fun, Scourge of Armagon has been my favourite - potentially better than the main game I think.

I might be with you on that. It was the first time I have played Scourge of Armagon and it was really good. If I am not mistaken the developers are what later became Ritual.