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Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
If I want to keep the closest "software mode" visual experience, but with the updated models, the interpolation and the 4K, what should I disable?

Fog looks very nice so I could keep that as well.

I already have ambient occlusion off.
Basically just turn all of this off. That'll match the original software renderer.

3a48335b49.png


Note that there's some slight confusion with Dynamic Shadows. Turning that off only affects non-static lights, such as projectiles. It does not affect static map lights, the ones your find in Dimensions of the Machine. That is intentional.
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,940
Basically just turn all of this off. That'll match the original software renderer.

3a48335b49.png


Note that there's some slight confusion with Dynamic Shadows. Turning that off only affects non-static lights, such as projectiles. It does not affect static map lights, the ones your find in Dimensions of the Machine. That is intentional.

I would definitely recommend fog off. Fog brightens all the levels, turning it off brings back the original lighting.
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,081
San Jose, Costa Rica
Basically just turn all of this off. That'll match the original software renderer.

3a48335b49.png


Note that there's some slight confusion with Dynamic Shadows. Turning that off only affects non-static lights, such as projectiles. It does not affect static map lights, the ones your find in Dimensions of the Machine. That is intentional.

I would definitely recommend fog off. Fog brightens all the levels, turning it off brings back the original lighting.

Thank you both, I kept it high res with interpolation and higher quality models but everything else off . It looks high res but very much like the Quake from my memories. Amazing.
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
If you want to match the original software renderer just play the prior version with the dosbox rev it came with.
 

b00_thegh0st

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,017
Thank you both, I kept it high res with interpolation and higher quality models but everything else off . It looks high res but very much like the Quake from my memories. Amazing.

I keep it high res with much of the new stuff turned off for old time's sake but would actually like to play in low res because that's what I remember the game looking like but there are two minor things that keep me from doing it:

- In low res there is a strange line of pixels between the gameplay part of the screen and the medium or full UI at the bottom. It looks ugly, maybe Nightdive can address this?

- The UI and low res gameplay are not at the same resolution and that bothers me a lot. Again, maybe something that can/may be addressed.
 

Mbolibombo

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,043
Played some Amazing online games yesterday.

Absolute gibfest on DM4. Reminded me of the Good old days in quakeworld. Even had decent ping!
 

MaLDo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,400
So it turns out my issue seemingly is unrelated to interpolation (I'm playing at 60pfs), instead It's caused by... weapon wheel? It's odd, but I've seen this suggested on steam forums (so I guess I'm not the only one that have this problem) and avoiding using this feature does in fact fix stuttery movement for me.

Shadow Man Remaster also from Nightdive has the same exact problem and the fix was disable the slow motion of weapon wheel. So devs put some kind of fixed tic into the slow motion effect that breaks the renderer flow.


This would create all sorts of problems for the readability of extended unicode characters. Won't change.

Is there intention to fix the wheel problem?
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,940
Shadow Man Remaster also from Nightdive has the same exact problem and the fix was disable the slow motion of weapon wheel. So devs put some kind of fixed tic into the slow motion effect that breaks the renderer flow.




Is there intention to fix the wheel problem?

Oh my god I had the same frame pacing issues in Shadow Man as well. I can't believe it is related to the weapon wheel as well! It was so annoying I stopped playing the game. Going to have to revisit it now. I can't remember- does Shadowman have weapon selection on the dpad as well so you can avoid the weapon wheel entirely?
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
Is there intention to fix the wheel problem?
Yup, I found a math problem with the wheel where the timer used to determine the game speed could technically exit just short of a couple of frames, so the timer didn't always return back to 60hz, creating some oddities. The fix is now sitting in an upstream branch.

Because of the extremely cross-platform nature of the project, including multiplayer, and how the cross-play isn't governed by the usual GaaS backend that you'd have in other cross-play multiplayer titles (so all game behaviours need to be updated as traditional patches rather than as service downloads), patches may take a little longer than expected to come out, as we have to group a lot of changes together at once and then push them to all the platforms at once.

Tl;Dr there's a lot of fixes for things already in the works, and they'll all be grouped together for efficiency due to the many platforms that need to be updated at the same time.
 
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Koklusz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,547
Yup, I found a math problem with the wheel where the timer used to determine the game speed could technically exit just short of a couple of frames, so the timer didn't always return back to 60hz, creating some oddities. The fix is now sitting in an upstream branch.

Because of the extremely cross-platform nature of the project, including multiplayer, and how the cross-play isn't governed by the usual GaaS backend that you'd have in other cross-play multiplayer titles (so all game behaviours need to be updated as traditional patches rather than as service downloads), patches may take a little longer than expected to come out, as we have to group a lot of changes together at once and then push them to all the platforms at once.

Tl;Dr there's a lot of fixes for things already in the works, and they'll all be grouped together for efficiency due to the many platforms that need to be updated at the same time.
That's great to hear, hopefully patch isn't far off.

BTW, is there a way to force specific button prompts? I'm using DS4 but I (currently) need Steam Input to fix the aiming, and I would like to be able to use it alongside correct button prompts. There is r_gamepadStyle command in kexengine.cfg, but putting "playstation" or "dualshock" instead of "detect" doesn't work.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,777
Video Games
Yup, I found a math problem with the wheel where the timer used to determine the game speed could technically exit just short of a couple of frames, so the timer didn't always return back to 60hz, creating some oddities. The fix is now sitting in an upstream branch.

Because of the extremely cross-platform nature of the project, including multiplayer, and how the cross-play isn't governed by the usual GaaS backend that you'd have in other cross-play multiplayer titles (so all game behaviours need to be updated as traditional patches rather than as service downloads), patches may take a little longer than expected to come out, as we have to group a lot of changes together at once and then push them to all the platforms at once.

Tl;Dr there's a lot of fixes for things already in the works, and they'll all be grouped together for efficiency due to the many platforms that need to be updated at the same time.
thanks for the explanation! that is really helpful in understanding the process and much better than just hearing nothing (which so often happens with other games). much appreciated.
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
That's great to hear, hopefully patch isn't far off.

BTW, is there a way to force specific button prompts? I'm using DS4 but I (currently) need Steam Input to fix the aiming, and I would like to be able to use it alongside correct button prompts. There is r_gamepadStyle command in kexengine.cfg, but putting "playstation" or "dualshock" instead of "detect" doesn't work.
You had the right idea, but that cvar is for a different system presently not used in Quake (though for the record, you'd have wanted "ds4" if it was used). The type is automatically obtained by the vendor ids of the device itself, and Steam obfuscates those.

Turn on view bob (disabled by default for some reason)
Motion bobbing was made off by default as we found it was causing motion sickness more often than not.
 

Koklusz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,547
You had the right idea, but that cvar is for a different system presently not used in Quake (though for the record, you'd have wanted "ds4" if it was used). The type is automatically obtained by the vendor ids of the device itself, and Steam obfuscates those.
That's a shame, oh well. Thanks for the answer anyway.
 

Planet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358
I'd really like to know a rough time frame when we can expect current gen versions of this game. As I intend to buy it for PS5 but I don't want a mostly empty trophy list for PS4 by accidently earning one or two. XD
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,991
Motion bobbing was made off by default as we found it was causing motion sickness more often than not.
Personally, I find that view bobbing in Quake is fine, but view rolling is what makes me motion sick.
That is easily fixed by setting cl_rollangle 0
Perhaps it could be added as a subset of the view bob option?

So it turns out my issue seemingly is unrelated to interpolation (I'm playing at 60pfs), instead It's caused by... weapon wheel? It's odd, but I've seen this suggested on steam forums (so I guess I'm not the only one that have this problem) and avoiding using this feature does in fact fix stuttery movement for me.
For what it's worth, this is not the cause of the stutter I reported earlier.
I'm using keyboard & mouse on PC, and had no idea there even was a weapon wheel.

Limiting the game to 72 FPS seems like an easy way to show the problem if you're using a variable refresh rate display.
It's far more obvious in person than this video shows:
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
Speaking of head bob, am I seeing things or does it feel different? The way it moves looks weird but I haven't compared the OG and this
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
I've finished the main campaign. It's remarkable how almost every enemy type in this game is an annoying fuck, lol.
E99BHZSX0AIwOAe
 

Koklusz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,547
For what it's worth, this is not the cause of the stutter I reported earlier.
I'm using keyboard & mouse on PC, and had no idea there even was a weapon wheel.

Limiting the game to 72 FPS seems like an easy way to show the problem if you're using a variable refresh rate display.
It's far more obvious in person than this video shows:
Yeah, hopefully Nightdive will be able to fix it as well. I found another video showing this, apparently this was captured with the game running at 240 fps and slowed down.




EDIT: Better video, remaster vs vkquake at 120fps slowed down 50%

 
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KainXVIII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,282
It's better that some players feel motion sickness?
No, people asked for authentic software experience that's why i advised to turn it on ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's in there as an option, whether it's on or off by default doesn't matter.
View bob option is kinda hidden in gameplay settings (i only found it recently lol), maybe somebody else will play Quake without knowing about it, that's all.
 

b00_thegh0st

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,017
No, people asked for authentic software experience that's why i advised to turn it on ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

View bob option is kinda hidden in gameplay settings (i only found it recently lol), maybe somebody else will play Quake without knowing about it, that's all.

And that won't drastically change their experience, will it? I looked for the option and turned it on because I knew something was missing from my initial experience with the game, but I totally understand Nightdive turning it off by default if they got reports of players feeling sick because of it.
 

Serious Sam

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,354
I've finished the main campaign. It's remarkable how almost every enemy type in this game is an annoying fuck, lol.
E99BHZSX0AIwOAe
Haha I killed end boss by mistake. I completely forgotten how this fight works. I entered the portal a few times and then Congrats screen popped up. For a moment I thought my game glitched. Then I revisited boss level and played it again and remembered what's going on.

As for enemies, yes a lot of them are very annoying but I think this is what makes the game so good and a timeless classic :)
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Haha I killed end boss by mistake. I completely forgotten how this fight works. I entered the portal a few times and then Congrats screen popped up. For a moment I thought my game glitched. Then I revisited boss level and played it again and remembered what's going on.

As for enemies, yes a lot of them are very annoying but I think this is what makes the game so good and a timeless classic :)
Sure, you need to play with the surroundings to keep the enemies at distance/not get hit by their attacks. It's certainly part of the design and it still works today.

How does the last boss suppose to work? I just killed all the enemies on the way to the portal and went through the portal. I once tried to enter the portal without killing everything, but I just ended up in the lava and died.
 

Koklusz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,547
How does the last boss suppose to work? I just killed all the enemies on the way to the portal and went through the portal. I once tried to enter the portal without killing everything, but I just ended up in the lava and died.
The spiky thing flying around the map is a teleporter, you need to wait for it to fly inside the boss and then jump into the portal.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
Sure, you need to play with the surroundings to keep the enemies at distance/not get hit by their attacks. It's certainly part of the design and it still works today.

How does the last boss suppose to work? I just killed all the enemies on the way to the portal and went through the portal. I once tried to enter the portal without killing everything, but I just ended up in the lava and died.
When you enter the portal, it teleports you where the flying orb is at that moment. You're supposed to wait until it goes into the boss to enter the portal, which kills it by telefrag.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,274
São Paulo - Brazil
I replaying the main campaign on the remaster and I must say the music is very subtle. When it works it works great, but sometimes I feel it's barely there. Also, a easy to forget mechanic from the game that is really cool is how those zombies can only be destroyed with explosive (or huge damage), the spike ball thing in the expansions also had a clear weakness (the nails). This is something that makes FPS more engaging, as weapon choice is still free, but the game encourages you to optimize strategy (especially on harder difficulties). Doom Eternal in the best arcade-y FPS partly because of this.
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,081
San Jose, Costa Rica
Turn on view bob (disabled by default for some reason)

Thank you, yeah. It was the first thing I turned on (it doesn't make me dizzy, unlike the Descent games)

To answer some of the other suggestions: I have the game in both the Series X and Steam but I prefer the Xbox experience so I can't really mess with variables on this version.

Disabling the fog and the color lightmaps really hit the spot in making it look like "my brain-Quake". I like how it looks BOTH ways and I'm happy I can choose between them from time to time.

Devs: thank you!
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
Yup, I found a math problem with the wheel where the timer used to determine the game speed could technically exit just short of a couple of frames, so the timer didn't always return back to 60hz, creating some oddities. The fix is now sitting in an upstream branch.

Because of the extremely cross-platform nature of the project, including multiplayer, and how the cross-play isn't governed by the usual GaaS backend that you'd have in other cross-play multiplayer titles (so all game behaviours need to be updated as traditional patches rather than as service downloads), patches may take a little longer than expected to come out, as we have to group a lot of changes together at once and then push them to all the platforms at once.

Tl;Dr there's a lot of fixes for things already in the works, and they'll all be grouped together for efficiency due to the many platforms that need to be updated at the same time.
Oh, it's great that they're addressing many issues at once!

Also can't wait to see what other mods to get officially curated. As much as I want Arcane Dimensions, I believe there were a few other classic Quake mods that had a very good single player campaign, like Beyond Belief and Contract Revoked.

Edit: I'm also hoping the team at Nightdive takes a crack at their Quake modding skills (particularly the ones working on the System Shock reboot) and make their own maps/campaign. It's a good way to flex those level-design principles.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,560
I replaying the main campaign on the remaster and I must say the music is very subtle. When it works it works great, but sometimes I feel it's barely there. Also, a easy to forget mechanic from the game that is really cool is how those zombies can only be destroyed with explosive (or huge damage), the spike ball thing in the expansions also had a clear weakness (the nails). This is something that makes FPS more engaging, as weapon choice is still free, but the game encourages you to optimize strategy (especially on harder difficulties). Doom Eternal in the best arcade-y FPS partly because of this.

I found the original Doom did that, too, but in a more subtle way. You naturally get into a rhythm of switching weapons depending on the situation (ammo, enemy, encounter design, range, etc.). Doom Eternal seemed to do that a bit more bluntly.

I'm switching all the time in Quake, too. The grenade launcher is great for checking around corners, for example.

I dropped Quake during my boomer shooter spree last year because of the music issue, and yeah, it surprised me how Doom 64-y it ended up being. I dig it, though.
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,081
San Jose, Costa Rica
It's excellent. It even has new (and fairly meaningful) content.

Thank you. Buying right now.

I know the devs are reading, personal wishlist, in case any of these are doable in console with controllers and software vs accelerated "visuals" toggles:
  • Quake II
  • Half-Life 1 (I played it in software mode back in 1999 and I swear it looked … better than the current Steam version?)
  • Shogo
  • Sin
  • Blood 2
  • Hexen 2
  • Heretic 2
  • Heavy Gear 1/2
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
There is Black Mesa, which ports Half-Life to the Source engine. Not developed by Valve, but endorsed by them.

 

Spook & Spell

Member
Aug 3, 2021
1,086
Thank you. Buying right now.

I know the devs are reading, personal wishlist, in case any of these are doable in console with controllers and software vs accelerated "visuals" toggles:
  • Quake II
  • Half-Life 1 (I played it in software mode back in 1999 and I swear it looked … better than the current Steam version?)
  • Shogo
  • Sin
  • Blood 2
  • Hexen 2
  • Heretic 2
  • Heavy Gear 1/2
Shogo and Heavy Gear would be so good. They would definitely have to consider KBM on consoles out of the gate though. Shogo's hit scan instant trigger enemies wouldn't work well with analog aim at all.
 

Listai

50¢
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,655
There is Black Mesa, which ports Half-Life to the Source engine. Not developed by Valve, but endorsed by them.

Not sure who this is in response to, but Black Mesa is a complete ground up remake of Half Life. Half Life: Source is where valve just straight ported the original game to the source engine.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
You know it is funny, I am replaying Quake 4 right now and I am actually enjoying it more than 2.

Quake 1 is still the most fun but for some reason 4 feels more fun than 2 even though it doesn't even feel like a Quake game (not that 2 did but it still had some stuff in common).
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,940
I replaying the main campaign on the remaster and I must say the music is very subtle. When it works it works great, but sometimes I feel it's barely there. Also, a easy to forget mechanic from the game that is really cool is how those zombies can only be destroyed with explosive (or huge damage), the spike ball thing in the expansions also had a clear weakness (the nails). This is something that makes FPS more engaging, as weapon choice is still free, but the game encourages you to optimize strategy (especially on harder difficulties). Doom Eternal in the best arcade-y FPS partly because of this.
I'm pretty sure the volume control for the music is bugged. In the original the music was cranked up. I can barely hear it when the slider is at 10.

I had to reduce sound effects to 3 abd turn my speakers up louder than I have ever had them to get the mix right, but that causes some distortion in my speakers.

Hopefully this gets addressed as well
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,006
Canada
Played through the first episode with a bunch of friends. Having an absolute great time so far. Can't wait to check out the new Machine Games episodes.

Thank you. Buying right now.

I know the devs are reading, personal wishlist, in case any of these are doable in console with controllers and software vs accelerated "visuals" toggles:
  • Quake II
  • Half-Life 1 (I played it in software mode back in 1999 and I swear it looked … better than the current Steam version?)
  • Shogo
  • Sin
  • Blood 2
  • Hexen 2
  • Heretic 2
  • Heavy Gear 1/2

Seeing as how Nightdive did the D1 port for Steam, I'd absolutely love it if they brought D2 to modern hardware so that more people could try out that gem.
 
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