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Put his name up there! - Neil Druckmann deserves to be mentioned amongst the Miyamotos, Sakaguchis, Kojimas and other all timers.
- Thread starter DominicanGlory
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The zack Snyder and Neil is a pretty good comparison I think. They both love the "dark and gritty and emo" look.
I don't agree with this at all. UC2 basically set the template for cinematic games for the next few decades, especially in terms of the use of interactive major set pieces. UC2 had these huge big budget playable set pieces that would have ordinarily been relegated to cutscenes, and I'd never experienced anything like it in the decades of games I'd played prior.
Stuff like this.
I think TLOU also pushed the genre forward in terms of narrative and characterisation. The only other AAA games I've played that really compare, are Red Dead Redemption 2 and The Last of Us Part II, maybe Bioshock as well but in a different way.
On that point, I think Part II pushes the genre forward again in narrative terms. I certainly have never played anything else like it, nor anything with nearly as nuanced, realistic, well realised, branching, unusually structured and emotionally impactful narrative and characters.
I agree to some extent but I also think that this is entirely in the AAA space. The biggest achievements people seem to grant ND is their ability with narrative and writing but honestly indie games have been doing way more interesting things with that space than ND and especially Rockstar.
That scene in uncharted is good but like...what does it actually change about video games? They're good at using system power but I don't think that adds much. Won't get too much into rockstar as I think they're vastly overrated.
The stories ND writes aren't particularly ground breaking, there's usually always a very easy to pick template film they've borrowed from.
I think games like Edith Finch, Gone Home, Journey, Outer Wilds all do significantly more interesting things with marrying narrative that can only be achieved in video games and gameplay.
Kojimas portfolio isn't really that different to Druckmann's in quality terms though.
I feel like even this take ignores that Miyamoto's NES to GCN span was 20+ years - and that's still not counting the arcade games he made before that, or any Wii stuff he did after.
Not to mention, for every modern game dev interview where people like to pinpoint Miyamoto for insisting on some gimmick they don't like, there's two more from well received games where the devs say having even a little oversight from Miyamoto was invaluable. IIRC, even the BotW devs attributed some of their decisions to him.
What greats currently in the industry were around in the 80s?
This too. Seems the demons/dark souls theme is catching on more and more.
Fr though Druckmann has had a hand in polished, well-crafted games that more pushed the industry forward in production values than in actual gameplay and storytelling innovations like Sakaguchi, Miyamoto, Kojima, etc
Pretty much. If Druckmann invented the narrative driven TPS then there would be more of an argument in his favor
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It's not only quality though. It's influence and innovation. Quality will always be subjective.
I think Kamiya has a better portfolio than Druckmann but I would argue that Druckmann has been more influential at this moment since cinematic gaming is the darling right now.
GOTY contenders against creators of games that literally define a genre.
Wow.
That gif is more close to a QTE to an actual gameplay sequence.I don't agree with this at all. UC2 basically set the template for cinematic games for the next few decades, especially in terms of the use of interactive major set pieces. UC2 had these huge big budget playable set pieces that would have historically been relegated to cutscenes, and I'd never experienced anything like it in the decades of games I'd played prior.
Stuff like this.
I think TLOU also pushed the genre forward in terms of narrative and characterisation. The only other AAA games I've played that really compare, are Red Dead Redemption 2 (which released in 2018) and The Last of Us Part II, maybe Bioshock as well but in a different way.
On that point, I think Part II pushes the genre forward again in narrative terms. I certainly have never played anything else like it, nor anything with as nuanced, realistic, hard hitting, well realised, branching, unusually structured and emotionally impactful narrative and characters.
Kojima did that years before. ND just had more budget.
Natla Tecnologies is literally a "large organization who have way more numbers and guns"
And I didn't ignore anything, you had nothing that substantiates the claim that Tomb Raider (2013) apes Uncharted in the entirety of your post
Druckmann is like, the Micheal Bay of movies. Makes popular stuff backed by a stupidly high budget.
It's just writing in video games is typically so bad, that something like TLOU2 gets heralded as generation defining.
It's just writing in video games is typically so bad, that something like TLOU2 gets heralded as generation defining.
I feel like you can just go look at both games and see it. It isn't hard to see the link from UC2 to the Tomb Raider reboot. This is honestly silly.
I agree with this, especially VNs and adventure games which I feel are often ignored when narrative and characterization are their bread and butter. I often feel much more comfortable with indies and their handling of much more sensitive topics and taking a stand on those topics than I do any AAA studio as well.
Lucas Pope also earns his medal of influencing creator, the question isn't to rank him, that's not what the tread title is insinuating but a lot of you read a bit to fast. Especially when Druckmann could the son of all those you've quoted.
Then don't include them, either, but I don't have a list to replace them all with. Even if we take away the crunch, Druckmann still doesn't stack up to how the others have influenced the industry at large.
User Banned (1 week): Hostility
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Bro you're an asshole
Lordy I need to just not go on the internet anymore when was this shift where everyone just decided to become complete asshats.
Again, I disagree.
Yes, interactive or playable set piece moments offer a uniquely entertainment type of interactive experience. They essentially put you the player inside these massive, complex, awe inspiring and bombastic sequences that can be absolutely thrilling and enjoyable.
Regarding comparing narrative and characterisation in the said (AAA) games vs indie titles, there are several indie games that have fantastic narratives in their own right, eg stuff like Disco Elysium and Soma, but they still don't have anywhere near the level of characterisation or realism of say TLOU or RDR2, because they largely rely on player interpretation and imagination due to not having complex looking characters, cutscenes, animations, visuals etc. In other words, they sort of offer a different type of indirect narrative, almost closer to a visual novel, whilst AAA games are generally closer to cinema or TV, thus have completely different considerations, delivery and complexities.
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Thers lots of quality gameplay in TLOU2. Your post sounds like trolling.
Why does Neil get all this praise? There was more than just him who made this thing. Y'all act like he sat at home making shit sit line by line, texture by texture by himself. Like, where the fuck are all of Halley Gross's threads of praise?
LOL!!!! Picture mentioning his name among greats like all those folks from Japan, Sid Meier, Warren Spector, Ken Levine, Gabe Newell, Chris Roberts, Ed Boon/John Tobias, Notch, PLAYERUNKNOWN, freakin CARMACK & ROMERO...
for a couple of derivative cover shooters with high production values. Because sure as hell Druckmann wouldn't be mentioned if he kept releasing on rail platformers. The modern gaming industry and it's endless inferiority complex with cinema...
One of the most Reset Era threads i have seen.
for a couple of derivative cover shooters with high production values. Because sure as hell Druckmann wouldn't be mentioned if he kept releasing on rail platformers. The modern gaming industry and it's endless inferiority complex with cinema...
One of the most Reset Era threads i have seen.
hahaha this is so true it hurts my soul. I'm sure he's had a good impact on a lot of games, but the bad impact on some games like Color Splash.... yikes.
With game development being the way it is, it would be almost impossible for anybody to catch up to someone who was established in the days when a handful or handfuls of people even could get together and make a bunch of games over a number of years. Now you can easily spend a decade or more on 1 or 2 games.
If he made games with fun gameplay he probably wouldn't be mentioned
Do you directly fight them? Their leaders? Is the leader the final boss? No. Where do you think all those Nathan Drake's a serial killer memes come from? And you can tell just from the set pieces the similarities between the two
I'd put him on the same level as Roberta Williams and Tim Schafer definitely. Seems like a more apt comparison.
Shift? I think it's has been like this since the late 90s. It was always like this.
People absolutely suck when they are anonymous.
I mean that's a really reductive and one-sided way of looking at things. I could easily counter this by saying that pretty much every single game Druckmann has every made has been afforded every single financial support of one of the richest companies in the world whereas Miyamoto's breakout game which you might have heard of got so little support that it almost didn't release outside of Japan just because a couple of people who tried it out didn't like it for some reason. And that little game is called Donkey Kong.
All gameplay TLOU has is subpar shooting and presiing triangle to loot everything, that's not what I would call quality gameplay.
As to your first point I don't think they do that particularly well, I think Infinity Ward did that way better with the call of duty campaigns.
I don't think ND create anything outside of archetypes though, good archetypes, but archetypes nonetheless.
All of the characters in uncharted have their 1 to 1 with characters in Indiana Jones. Joel is an amalgamation of basically every post apocalyptic being a daddy issues character.
Again, that doesn't make them bad but it means they aren't nearly groundbreaking enough to be considered amongst the GOATS.