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Bungie

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,782
Gyro usage in multiplayer games should be something that disables aim assist imo. If you're getting extra precision through a secondary input, why should the game also slow your cursor over targets on top of that?

The easier it is for players to put their reticle on a target, the less skill factors into the game.
 
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Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,282
Houston, TX
Gyro usage in multiplayer games should be something that disables aim assist imo. If you're getting extra precision through a secondary input, why should the game also slow your cursor over targets on top of that?

The easier it is for players to put their reticle on a target, the less skill factors into the game.
Fortnite already does that.
 

Xiofire

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,133
It's not standard. Controller players generally don't matchmake into Mouse and Keyboard matches by default, and they shouldn't matchmake with Gyro nonsense either. I didn't buy into HD console to flop my controller around when playing; it's completely unenjoyable.

Tell me you've never used gyro aim without telling me you've never used gyro aim.

Please pin the Nerrel video to the OP. It's required viewing at this rate.
 

Xeteh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,377
The "no I don't want more options" crowd never fails to amuse me. I promise no one will hold a gun to your head and demand you play with gyro controls if they were to be implemented, you'll be okay.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,123
We're back at square one... turn off aim assists for a traditional shooter vs. those mouse aimers on PC and report back. Here's a quote from one of the best Xbox Titanfall players in the world backing this up as he describes how difficult it is to get frags against quality opponents without aim assists enabled on a controller:



I mean, the basic laws of physics show that stick aiming (without assists) can never be as good as mouse or gyro aiming, all else being equal. It really isn't much of a debate to suggest otherwise.
Turning off aim assist would not deter me from using sticks. I already know PC and gyro players have advantages. I'm not trying to prove anything other than I'm not doing any worse than I was before with controller players.
 

JomanC137

Member
Oct 27, 2017
290
Yeah, not adding gyro or built in battery was incredibly cheap from them and a short sighted decision that hindered gyro aim adoption
 

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
Tell me you've never used gyro aim without telling me you've never used gyro aim.

Please pin the Nerrel video to the OP. It's required viewing at this rate.
It's like people saw the Wii Music gif and literally nothing else relating to motion controls before or after, and they hold onto that as how it works across the board. Flopping your controller around what a fuckin stupid thing to say lmao
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,053
Posts like this make it very clear who has used gyro aiming and who has not. You're not shaking the controller around when using gyro aiming. You make slight adjustments with the controller while aiming with the sticks for greater accuracy and speed

I didn't say shaking, I said rocking - which you absolutely are doing with gyro. Try again.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,585
What we should be asking for is more console mouse and keyboard support anyway. Always love it when an XBox game offers that.
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
Oh neat. I didn't even know they did one. Cheers
Ye. You'll notice an extra set of 4 pins inside the battery compartment on one side, those are what's used for charging and power for the Xbox battery packs. You can sometimes find third party ones that use those pins as well, though they are curiously rare. Probably it's cheaper to manufacture their own door and using an existing integrated charging method.
 

wollywinka

Member
Feb 15, 2018
3,094
I would have to imagine (and am hoping) that a new Elite update will be including this soon (hopefully with better build quality)
Yup, the build quality of the elite controllers is abysmal. I have gone through about four of them. Stick drift, peeling grips, bumper failure, unresponsive buttons. I must have spent £500 on the fucking things. Quality aside, the controllers are phenomenal, but still, it's really not good enough.
 

kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
California
Think it'd be an awful look if standard features on other controllers were locked behind the elite price tag.
I'm kind of torn on it, honestly. I really don't care for the haptics or triggers on the DualSense, and I've never liked gyro controls. On the one hand, I can understand the expectation that Microsoft would add it to the "standard" controllers, but I kind of like not having to pay $70+ for a new controller. I'm all for more choice, but I don't want to pay significantly more for a controller for features I have no interest in using.
 

joeblow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,928
Laker Nation
Turning off aim assist would not deter me from using sticks. I already know PC and gyro players have advantages. I'm not trying to prove anything other than I'm not doing any worse than I was before with controller players.
I got ya. You're simply saying you will always use the control scheme you enjoy, not that you use it to dominate an objectively better one. I have no issue with that.

In fact, I'll go so far to say I hope console game makers don't eliminate thumb stick controls with aim assists if gyro aiming continues to become more popular. If that's how people are comfortable playing, it's fine with me.
 

KanameYuuki

Member
Dec 23, 2017
2,645
Colombia
How I wish MS would release an addon that connects to the bottom of the controller, make it 30usd no questions asked, heck make an addon with paddles and gyro and charge what you must.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
How I wish MS would release an addon that connects to the bottom of the controller, make it 30usd no questions asked, heck make an addon with paddles and gyro and charge what you must.

That would be a neat add-on idea but without standardized implementation, the odds that developers would support it would be extremely low... lower than it is on platforms that already have it standardized.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,322
Flick Stick is the greatest thing ever for Shooters on controller. I'm super Salty I can't play this way in Halo unless I play on PC
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
I will never quite understand that the Xbox still doesn't have Gyro, two generations after the Wii/PS3 introduced it and pretty much every single device these days have it. They really went completely against it for no real reason...
 

KanameYuuki

Member
Dec 23, 2017
2,645
Colombia
That would be a neat add-on idea but without standardized implementation, the odds that developers would support it would be extremely low... lower than it is on platforms that already have it standardized.
For sure, I can't imagine that many devs or any at all revisiting games to patch gyro support but you gotta start somewhere, much like how sony just now started to add gyro to some of their titles after 2 gens (granted DS3 wasn't that precise I imagine).
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,064
Good good.

I wouldn't even consider buying another xbox until they implement gyro. I'd instantly buy a controller to use for pc if they did.
 

Bonfires Down

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,813
Before 60 fps on consoles: "Meh, it's useless. They shouldn't waste performance on 60 fps. I can't see any difference."

After 60 fps on consoles: "30 fps is like a slide show."

It's gonna be the same with gyro once people get used to it.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,409
Gyro usage in multiplayer games should be something that disables aim assist imo. If you're getting extra precision through a secondary input, why should the game also slow your cursor over targets on top of that?

The easier it is for players to put their reticle on a target, the less skill factors into the game.

That is generally how it's done, yes.

Aim assist with gyro would be a nightmare, it'd actually be counter productive.
 

OgTheEnigma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,803
Liverpool
I can never get gyro aim to work well for me.
There are many ways to set it up, so it may require some experimentation until you find something you're comfortable with. One of the more beginner friendly configurations is to use it is just for ADSing. Keep the sensitivity at 1, or maybe lower it down 0.5 to start off with. Then you can just focus on using gyro for precise long range shots, and use the right stick for everything else.

Of course, the feature is completely optional, so there's no problem in turning it off and ignoring it either.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Before 60 fps on consoles: "Meh, it's useless. They shouldn't waste performance on 60 fps. I can't see any difference."

After 60 fps on consoles: "30 fps is like a slide show."

It's gonna be the same with gyro once people get used to it.

I'll never get used to gyro. I'd have to unlearn tens of thousands of hours of muscle memory. I can understand why younger generations gravitate toward gyro but I just can't do it. I've tried multiple times to get used to it and its just an awful experience for me.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,409
I'll never get used to gyro. I'd have to unlearn tens of thousands of hours of muscle memory. I can understand why younger generations gravitate toward gyro but I just can't do it. I've tried multiple times to get used to it and its just an awful experience for me.

People said the same thing about dual stick aiming too.

If it becomes universal, you'll just put another tens of thousands of hours into learning this as well.
 

Zyae

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Mar 17, 2020
2,057
Before 60 fps on consoles: "Meh, it's useless. They shouldn't waste performance on 60 fps. I can't see any difference."

After 60 fps on consoles: "30 fps is like a slide show."

It's gonna be the same with gyro once people get used to it.

this is such a bad comparison, gyro is a nice option for those who want to use it but it will never be better than stick aiming in a competitive shooter. Moving both your wrists to move a controller is just less precise and slower than moving a stick with one thumb.
 

Garcia el Gringo

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,657
NJ
Besides Splatoon, has there really been many tentpole flat console shooters with default/good gyro onboarding?

I've been dual sticking since Halo 1, but I took to Splatoon quickly. Fortnite is a little wild west to attempt Flick Stick with, because outside of the news video when you start up the game (that suggests you experiment with the controls in Creative or throw in a solo to practice aiming at wildlife and NPCs) you're just dropped into the deep end. I'm sure this will change in the future with playable tutorials in new games.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Please pin the Nerrel video to the OP. It's required viewing at this rate.
On god. People still see all motion controls as waggle and it's tiring. It's like arguing we should do away with buttons and sticks because of mashing and fast-rotating minigames. Bad implementation isn't an indictment on an input method as a whole.
this is such a bad comparison, gyro is a nice option for those who want to use it but it will never be better than stick aiming in a competitive shooter. Moving both your wrists to move a controller is just less precise and slower than moving a stick with one thumb.
Wider range of motion = More accuracy.
It's true whether you go from analog sticks to gyro, pointer or mouse aiming. It's simple.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Finally have a way to partially close the gap between controller and mouse and it's met with huge resistance for 15 years. Please people get on board with this.
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,927
this is such a bad comparison, gyro is a nice option for those who want to use it but it will never be better than stick aiming in a competitive shooter. Moving both your wrists to move a controller is just less precise and slower than moving a stick with one thumb.
That's the thing about gyro aim, at least the sort being discussed/requested in this thread.

It literally is stick aiming - but with an extra layer of mouse-like fine aim control tacked on. It is by nature faster and more precise than sticks alone.

See, if you were talking about Wii-era pointer controls, I'd be right there with you, even if I'd probably meet some resistance from folks who loved that style of control.

Gyro aim quite simply isn't that, though. It's like you're holding an air-mouse that lets you make precise and immediate adjustments to your stick aim. It feels just like using a mouse because it operates on the same principles - immediate, consistent 1:1 motion->response, rather than how sticks work, where you're adjusting the velocity of your camera movement.

Think of it like this - imagine using dual analog sticks alone, vs. using dual sticks PLUS you've got a third arm holding a low-sensitivity mouse.

That mouse you're holding in your third hand - you're not going to be using that to turn your camera facing. That's what the sticks are for. Except now you've got freedom to crank up your right stick sensitivity, so that you can make quick changes to your camera facing at any time - without sacrificing fine aim control, because your third hand can just use the mouse its holding to line up that cursor with ease.

That's what gyro aim is, and it's awesome. I've played a lot of shooters over the years and the only reason I generally refuse to play them on consoles these days (outside of cases where M/KB is supported) is because gyro aim hasn't been adopted as a standard yet. Sticks alone just feels cumbersome and limiting now that I'm used to its alternatives.

--

That said, I def understand why someone would find it unintuitive on paper. Moving your controller is something that you're already doing unconsciously every time you use it. Even just tweaking your grip'll do it. That said, gyro control is neither as cumbersome or as prone to interference caused by natural motion as one might assume. It actually feels very natural after just a little while of using it. Not to mention the fact that most well-implemented gyro control setups have inbuilt software solutions for those issues that allow players to decide for themselves exactly when gyro aim is or isn't active.

I hope I've made a decent case for why well-implemented gyro is innately faster and more precise than just using a stick. To me, it just makes intuitive sense that it would be - considering that it's just straight-up stick aiming, but with 1:1 mouselike aim control stapled on top.
 
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Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
this is such a bad comparison, gyro is a nice option for those who want to use it but it will never be better than stick aiming in a competitive shooter. Moving both your wrists to move a controller is just less precise and slower than moving a stick with one thumb.
You are supposed to use both at the same time. It's basically adding mouse to a stick. And yes it is less complex to use than it sounds.
 

OgTheEnigma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,803
Liverpool
this is such a bad comparison, gyro is a nice option for those who want to use it but it will never be better than stick aiming in a competitive shooter. Moving both your wrists to move a controller is just less precise and slower than moving a stick with one thumb.
"this is such a bad comparison, mouse is a nice option for those who want to use it but it will never be better than stick aiming in a competitive shooter. Moving your whole arm to move a mouse is just less precise and slower than moving a stick with one thumb."
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,509
I'd like Xbox to have haptics and gyro, and I'd like all console manufacturers to include paddles. I do NOT want, however, adaptive triggers -- even if you can turn the functionality off. I've read too many horror stories about them breaking on here, and it seems kind of ridiculous for something that also ramps up the price (and has mixed reviews).
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,316
this is such a bad comparison, gyro is a nice option for those who want to use it but it will never be better than stick aiming in a competitive shooter. Moving both your wrists to move a controller is just less precise and slower than moving a stick with one thumb.
This is satire right?
 

Bonfires Down

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,813
this is such a bad comparison, gyro is a nice option for those who want to use it but it will never be better than stick aiming in a competitive shooter. Moving both your wrists to move a controller is just less precise and slower than moving a stick with one thumb.
I'm thinking this is probably sarcasm but you can never be sure with Era.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
People said the same thing about dual stick aiming too.

If it becomes universal, you'll just put another tens of thousands of hours into learning this as well.

Yeah but dual sticks quickly overtook the industry as the defacto way to play video games on a console like you literally don't have a choice. Gyro aiming will probably gain popularity but I can't ever see it becoming so prevelant that it overtakes dual sticks as the default.