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Psychedelics give a glimpse of enlightenment
- Thread starter Forerunner
- Start date
A lot of the discussion here is kind of misunderstanding this research. If you want to understand how brain imaging under the influence of psychedelics is helping us understand the phenomenon of consciousness, then this talk by Dr Robin Carhart-Harris about his groundbreaking brain imaging study - that this paper cites repeatedly - into patients injected with psilocybin in an fMRI machine is very revealing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNR4o5JZEi0
Basically, there are multiple networks in the brain. One of the major ones is the 'Default Mode Network', which is responsible for mediating our experience of being focused on something, or daydreaming idly. Typically, we'll switch between these states freely. For example, you might be concentrating hard on a book or a lecture, but then you look out the window and see a cat in the street and start imagining where it might be going or what kind of adventure it's on. Psychedelics interfere with the regulation of this network, and in doing so change the mode of perception.
So, it's not that there is a 'higher' state of consciousness. It's just that ordinarily our brains coordinate and filter our perception to construct our reality. Psycadelics have the potential to change this to our benefit - but obviously, there is also the risk of harm.
Basically, there are multiple networks in the brain. One of the major ones is the 'Default Mode Network', which is responsible for mediating our experience of being focused on something, or daydreaming idly. Typically, we'll switch between these states freely. For example, you might be concentrating hard on a book or a lecture, but then you look out the window and see a cat in the street and start imagining where it might be going or what kind of adventure it's on. Psychedelics interfere with the regulation of this network, and in doing so change the mode of perception.
So, it's not that there is a 'higher' state of consciousness. It's just that ordinarily our brains coordinate and filter our perception to construct our reality. Psycadelics have the potential to change this to our benefit - but obviously, there is also the risk of harm.
DJ Koze - XTC (PAMPA024)
Release date: june 15, 2015 - get it here: https://pamparecords.com/products/pampa024-xtc-e-pDJ Koze's 2013 album opus Amygdala has continued to bewitch all ...
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I heard you say once that a lie is sweet in the beginning and bitter in the end.
And truth is bitter in the beginning, and sweet in the end.
I have been meditating, but I don't have the experiences people report from the drug ecstasy.
Is the drug like the lie, and meditation the truth? Or am I missing something that could really help me?"
Dunno about perception, but I have heard that it can help to rewire your brain with guidance. Help with addiction and such. Which, of course, doesn't mean "just take it and you'll be one with your inner oneness" or whatever.
I have had truly enlightening and amazing experiences on lsd that have changed me so I believe it
Micro-dosing mushrooms can be very effective at maintaining a positive mindset.
Only if you are in a good place mentally, a safe environment, not on any anti-depressants or other similar drugs, and only if you're sensible.
My friend is doing it and having very positive results,nieve read a lot of anecdotes too.
Mushrooms as a whole are very cool for taking for the psychedelic effects, too. Again, safe environment and a good place, they can break down inhbitions and help you gather perspective and male peace with troubles.
Only if you are in a good place mentally, a safe environment, not on any anti-depressants or other similar drugs, and only if you're sensible.
My friend is doing it and having very positive results,nieve read a lot of anecdotes too.
Mushrooms as a whole are very cool for taking for the psychedelic effects, too. Again, safe environment and a good place, they can break down inhbitions and help you gather perspective and male peace with troubles.
Man that article is dumb. Physics says everything is connected!
No it doesn't you woo idiots. The only thing psychedelics do is make you sound stupider than you normally sound.
But my mind is connected to the universe, man!
Shut up you hippie.
No it doesn't you woo idiots. The only thing psychedelics do is make you sound stupider than you normally sound.
But my mind is connected to the universe, man!
Shut up you hippie.
Oh……kay? Of course they are "drugs" but how exactly, in this context, does that matter? Pharmaceutical drugs can have healthy benefits, lol. Are you trying to deny the same for psychedelic drugs?
I'm so thankful I tried Psilocybin after decades of being terrified of psychedelic drugs. It helped me in ways I couldn't imagine. It lowered the amount of migraines I had for like a whole year from one dose. And it increased my mental state of well being tremendously. If it wasn't for "shrooms" I would probably be in a very dark place right now.
Obviously in the context of the thread I'm saying I don't believe a psychedelic experience is insight into some sort of heightened reality or divine presence.
User Banned (1 Week): Hostility towards another user, history of similar behavior
You absolute ignoramus. Please stop speaking on things of which you have no idea. Unless you're familiar with the subject you are talking about it's best you stay silent and listen to people smarter than you instead of saying stupid shit like this.
"Hippy"…really? Grow the fuck up.
User Banned (1 Week): Hostility towards another user, history of similar behavior
Wow, did you forget to take your happy pill today?
You sound like all druggies I've ever met. Grasping at straws to try to convince yourselves that your vice is something other than that.
You are messing with the chemicals in your brain, not entering the 5th dimension.
Exact type of response I expected from you. You're not funny or clever. Just plain…ignorant
i mean yeah if you're saying psychadelics interfere with the brain to alter perception that's kind of a "no shit" thing, that's why they're classed as psychadelics. that's not to say it isn't worthwhile to stufy exactly how that works for any given psychadelic drug, that's obviously very useful and has tons of applications in medicine, but just saying psychadelics alter perception is not a particularly interesting or novel observation
Given that they seem to be treating previously untreatable depression and PTSD with psychedelic therapy in a controlled environment tells me there's definitely more than just drugs here.
I believe it was this one!
Psilocybin-occasioned mystical-type experience in combination with meditation and other spiritual practices produces enduring positive changes in psychological functioning and in trait measures of prosocial attitudes and behaviors - PubMed
Psilocybin can occasion mystical-type experiences with participant-attributed increases in well-being. However, little research has examined enduring changes in traits. This study administered psilocybin to participants who undertook a program of meditation/spiritual practices. Healthy...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Don't bring that shit up let the people who have that boomer vitriolic hate for psychedelics show their asses imo
This is so wrong it has me second guessing myself because no one would type something this obviously incorrect.
i mean curing illness is the point of drugs. the fact that they can help with this stuff is fantstic, but it's not a sign that they're inducing a state of higher conciousness or giving you englightenment or anything like that because those are wholly unscientific concepts. it's important to communicate science with the correct language because using charged words like "enlightenment" inherently adds an extra layer of context divorced from the actual science that muddies conversations
Are these sufficiently large and properly conducted studies that track progress and effects for a sufficient period of time? And are there enough to make meaningful conclusions about them?
I would not be surprised if some psychedilics helped with depression and trauma. I mean that's what modern antidepressants do, change your bran chemistry.
But no it doesn't enlighten you and reveal the secrets of the universe to you. That sort of nonsense is so dumb.
(Not saying you are claiming that).
This is how this shit goes for some of these people. It's just ignorant woo. Can anyone be surprised that someone willing to mess with their brain for recreational purposes might believe stupid shit like this?
Joe Rogan has been trying to create a demand for a psychedelics market to get in on it early. Others on the right and UFO field have had similar interest. Weird overlap between anti-government people, conspiracy theorists, and capitalism/free-market/libertarians.
This is a pretty unfair characterization of those who may have perfectly reasonable skepticism of the broader psuedo-spiritual claims that are suggested in the OP.
I'm not sure where the studies are at, but people that meet certain conditions can qualify for therapy and I think some insurance may be starting to cover it. This is unthinkable to me 10-20 years ago.
And yeah antidepressants change brain chemistry but to my understanding psychedelic therapy using ketamine and MDMA actually forms new connections within the brain, which is a whole other ballgame than antidepressants.
So yeah experiencing a "heightened sense of reality" is obviously unscientific and BS.
But consider someone who's been trapped in a cycle of depression and PTSD for a long time due to horrific trauma they've experienced. After psychedelic therapy these people experience relief for the first time in what could be a called a higher reality when they're really just joining everyone else who hasn't had to deal with trauma.
Being finally free from long standing mental health issues is entering a new reality(in a manner of speaking) for trauma survivors.
So I suspect that might be the reasoning for such wording.
I can't think of anything constructive coming from my experiments with psychedelics. Had fun though.
You can definitely "see" things that you wouldn't normally perceive. But hardly anyone understands or can comprehend the unveiling of reality. Like when people try DMT and they see the fabric of the universe and "machine elves" and stuff, they can only reference what they've learned as humans, which is so limited.
But you can still learn lessons from the experience, you can have an almost religious experience and can look at your past actions and current addictions or issues/problems differently. Psychedelics can help you become better, it can initiate change. I guess that is a form of enlightenment, it works for some. But it can also scare you and shock your psyche. You have to know you can handle it and be ready, set and setting matter.
Even a huge dose of THC can really help you "slow down" and appreciate reality, kill your ego/ego death, and make you understand why you are the way you are, make you feel regret and disgust, and it can make some things clear. A lot of people don't feel bad about the poor way they treat others, for example, until they try something like LSD. Then they realize how wrong they were, the drug makes them confront their demons, and they learn to be better and do better.
But you can still learn lessons from the experience, you can have an almost religious experience and can look at your past actions and current addictions or issues/problems differently. Psychedelics can help you become better, it can initiate change. I guess that is a form of enlightenment, it works for some. But it can also scare you and shock your psyche. You have to know you can handle it and be ready, set and setting matter.
Even a huge dose of THC can really help you "slow down" and appreciate reality, kill your ego/ego death, and make you understand why you are the way you are, make you feel regret and disgust, and it can make some things clear. A lot of people don't feel bad about the poor way they treat others, for example, until they try something like LSD. Then they realize how wrong they were, the drug makes them confront their demons, and they learn to be better and do better.
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For most people their reality is simply what they've experienced, hallucinogenics allow for new ways to perceive. You don't have to take drugs, perform rituals or meditate and or pray. Lot of people will scoff at the notion of a spirit world and the human spirit interacting, but typically a "higher reality" is just accepting physical and non physical components that without us getting in the way, do a fine job of operating. Possibly at a much smaller scale even these spiritual components can be explained or analyzed, but as of now most people relegate it all to just superstition, myth and ignorance.
It's cross-cutting. Cory Booker also has a weird fixation on psychedelics.
There are studies that suggest they can help with addiction and depression, but only when used in conjunction with a psychotherapy (administered by an actual psychologist, not a life coach or whatever.)
I don't subscribe to the original article and it's connecting to enlightenment through psychedelics(because I don't understand it). But to liken people attempting to find new avenues of mental rehabilitation to "hippys" is boomer shit. Like, why is that so hard to grasp? You can be skeptical without being an ass about it. I truly believe there a medicinal properties in psychedelics, but NO ONE knows how consciousness really works. Why are articles, researches, and in general, people who work to find out more about concisousness and "the beyond" met with so much hostility? It's beyond me. We're decades past the hippy uprising that boomers were so terrified of let's maybe stop repeating their rhetoric so long after the fact
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Love the edit! Let me start off by saying. I'm not a fucking "druggie". I haven't take psychedelics in over two years and I used to for migraine relief. I have my vices. None of them are drugs. You presumptuous jerk. I've never once taken a psychedelic in search of something "beyond" or for "enlightenment". EVER. It was purely for medicinal reasons.
You sound like a really fearful and ignorant person tbh.
Anyone who uses the term "happy pills" is an idiot. And then you follow it up with the next sentence.
I did LSD back in the late 80's-early 90's around age 17-20ish a handful of times. I experienced Ego Death and I have never had a fear of death since then. It also made me realize that I never once believed in God and I walked away from religion entirely without any hesitation or regret. It 100% changed my life in a profound way, and not one that is easy to explain or discuss. LSD shepherded me through the hardest and most difficult philosophical internal debates that I watch those around me struggle with all the time. I consider myself lucky and fortunate to have had the experience. Not bad for $5 a hit and a 8-12hr trip done 4-5 times in my youth.
If you have never seen this clip, you should watch it. It is fascinating. Those that have done LSD know how true this experience is.
And here is an entire series of short stories of people sharing thier stories of being on hallucinogens that is a lot of fun.
My story matches yours 1:1. I experimented with acid back in that period too. Mostly it was just fun and giggles, but one specific time we were lying in a field watching a shower of shooting stars and in an instant the boundaries just melted away. The profoundness of that moment (never repeated) has carried through my whole life and brought an immense sense of peace. Glad to hear of your experience too.
I argue fun is constructive!! But yeah its just being high lol
You think only Joe Rogan types are interested in psychedelics? People have wanted to study these things in an academic setting for years.
This sounds like pseudoscience. 🤷♀️
Edit: I don't doubt the benefits psychedelics can have on a person's psyche, how it can make you reflective, change your perception, help you work through your personal challenges and mental issues. But the way it is framed in this article makes it sound like the secret to unlocking higher brain functionality to connect to the universe, which. I mean. That sounds like pseudoscience.
Edit: I don't doubt the benefits psychedelics can have on a person's psyche, how it can make you reflective, change your perception, help you work through your personal challenges and mental issues. But the way it is framed in this article makes it sound like the secret to unlocking higher brain functionality to connect to the universe, which. I mean. That sounds like pseudoscience.
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I take spravato, an FDA-approved psychedelic, because about twenty different antidepressants "messed with the chemicals in my brain" in a way that was not helpful for me personally. That's how it goes for some people with treatment-resistant depression. Spravato saved my life.
I haven't reviewed this study in detail but the overall evidence for the benefits of psychedelic treatment for some expressions of depression, anxiety and ptsd are growing, not narrowing. Psilocybin was legalized in Oregon on the strength of that evidence and I firmly believe that legal state will only expand from here. Spravato is legal nationally in the US, and abroad, for this purpose.
People can get with the program or not but the statements made by the banned user in question are insulting and ignorant and I can hardly blame VeryHighlander for their defensive reaction to them. That is more than hostility, it is unduly prejudicial and destructive. There's no justification for any of that.
I haven't reviewed this study in detail but the overall evidence for the benefits of psychedelic treatment for some expressions of depression, anxiety and ptsd are growing, not narrowing. Psilocybin was legalized in Oregon on the strength of that evidence and I firmly believe that legal state will only expand from here. Spravato is legal nationally in the US, and abroad, for this purpose.
People can get with the program or not but the statements made by the banned user in question are insulting and ignorant and I can hardly blame VeryHighlander for their defensive reaction to them. That is more than hostility, it is unduly prejudicial and destructive. There's no justification for any of that.
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"Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy.DJ Koze - XTC (PAMPA024)
Release date: june 15, 2015 - get it here: https://pamparecords.com/products/pampa024-xtc-e-pDJ Koze's 2013 album opus Amygdala has continued to bewitch all ...
I heard you say once that a lie is sweet in the beginning and bitter in the end.
And truth is bitter in the beginning, and sweet in the end.
I have been meditating, but I don't have the experiences people report from the drug ecstasy.
Is the drug like the lie, and meditation the truth? Or am I missing something that could really help me?"
This song fucking rips, and always has.
Yeah I think the word they're looking for is intrinsically. Complete fuck up there lol
I just went through the article.
Psychology Today is a pop science rag and I don't think we should take anything they suggest here too seriously. It's a review of more than one study that is framed to be scandalous and stir discussion. PT is guilty of more than one case of "scientist invents time travel," if you catch my drift. It's not a peer-reviewed journal in and of itself and the reporting here is plainly faulty.
There are useful measures of this notion of enlightenment (which have been measured in relation to the therapeutic application of psychedelics). Examples would be tracking a subject's sense of inner peace, calm, or fear of death. Spravato therapy practitioners regularly use the more modest measures of a patient's trendlines of depression, anxiety, focus and sleep patterns. I'm not convinced that the studies in question use quite the same language as what is presented in Psychology Today's piece, in a manner which is perhaps unhelpful. But I want to emphasize their role and motive here.
