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Deleted member 19767

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,098
The only GPU over $1000 is the 2080Ti (excluding the RTX Titan since no sane person buys that card anyway) which is more powerful than the ones in both the XSX and PS5. You can certainly find a 2080 or 2070 Super and a solid SSD without breaking $1000.

Maybe, but it will be close. When I looked, the SSD (at similar XSX speeds) was ~$300. Regardless, my point is you're not building a similar PC in Australia for anywhere close to a console price point. Not even close at this stage. We'll see how it looks in 12-18 months, but I think it's going to take a while.
 

Derktron

Banned
Jun 6, 2019
1,445
It's obvious that these consoles are basically PC in nature. The only thing that's different is that you can't do upgrades or do major changes to your game like on PC. Ohh and one thing to point out is that they have different UI making them different.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,198
I would say yes, but I imagine a lot of people are waiting to upgrade (like me). I may just do what I did this generation and wait about 2 years into the generation to have a much more powerful pc than a console and a more affordable price.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Back in the day, the $299 360 was comparable to a $1100 + PC that was built only 8 months before the 360 launch. It had GPU features like programmable shaders that were not available in literally any PC GPU.
Cool, I didn't know that. I loved the 360, it was such an underdog after Sony's PS3 hype and the Xbox 1.5 mocking, ended up as the main platform for multiplats for me until this gen when I jumped into PC gaming.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
RDNA2-1.jpg


Radeon-RX-Navi-2X-2-IPC.jpg

Marketing graphs are a misinformed way of discussing technology, but the reason I'm replying is to think about how silly it is to have a performance / watt graph like that and not show mobile processors. You'd need a log graph to even show the points... Meanwhile Intel don't care (about perf per watt in desktop applications).
 

Deluxera

Member
Mar 13, 2020
2,592
"Better" in what way ?
The advantages of PC gaming aren't purely about performance and raw power.
 

tATu

Alt Account
Member
Mar 18, 2020
255
I'm sure the new consoles wll be pretty powerful. But by the time they come, AMD and Nvidia will have their new line of cpu and gpu's already out, or about to come out. And those products will be what the new consoles are compared to in terms of performance

As a pc gamer I want the new consoles to be as powerful as possible since those are what games are designed around, it will just mean games can look even better than they would otherwise, regardless of what platform I play them on
 

Altair

Member
Jan 11, 2018
7,901
Maybe, but it will be close. When I looked, the SSD (at similar XSX speeds) was ~$300. Regardless, my point is you're not building a similar PC in Australia for anywhere close to a console price point. Not even close at this stage. We'll see how it looks in 12-18 months, but I think it's going to take a while.

I mean if you're looking for an SSD with the exact speeds as the one in the XSX then yea, but that just seems like a waste to me. The performance you'd gain from that isn't remotely worth the significant increase in price over another solid SSD. Anyway, I agree with you that when looking at it from purely a gaming standpoint that the Series X and PS5 have PCs beat in regards to price/performance, but there's a whole lot more to a PC than just gaming.
 

TacoSupreme

Member
Jul 26, 2019
1,720
Even among dedicated high-end gaming PCs there are probably a lot of people who haven't upgraded their CPUs in 5+ years. I know I'm still getting by fine with an ancient ass Intel Haswell i7. I bet AMD is going to sell a LOT of Ryzens over the next year.
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,906
According to steam stats less than 5% of people have GPU like GTX 2080ti,2080 super,2070/2080 SLI. PS5 has 10.3tf rdna 2 and [...].
According to my personal stats 0% of people do own a PS5.
You can't compare the usage stats of current high-end equipment with some other equipment that isn't available on the market.

Also please: stop comparing Teraflops. It's one of the most useless numbers to compare performance. Probably the worst stat.
 

Jimbojim

Banned
Jan 10, 2018
685
On a persdonal note, in november 2018, I built a new gaming pc with a 8600k, 16gb DDR4 paired with a 1080ti along with a 1440p/144hz/G-Sync monitor and to me it was a game changer. I'm fully aware that by the time the PS5/XSX come out, my pc might start to be a slight underdog but even then, the experience of gaming on a high refresh rate monitor is just something I can't give up. I will still get a PS5 for the exclusives for sure as I always have but if the main graphic upgrade is going towards 4k@30~60fps(depending on games) I will still prefer to play the same game at a lesser resolution like 1440p but with higher framerates to have a much smoother experience. Only aspect that might be affecting a game purchase until my next gpu upgrade will be games on console having great ray tracing since my pc can't handle that just yet.

Like many of you, I intend to start saving up for when 3000 series launches for that ray tracing candy.

With all that being said, I can't wait for the ps5 nonetheless!
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Marketing graphs are a misinformed way of discussing technology, but the reason I'm replying is to think about how silly it is to have a performance / watt graph like that and not show mobile processors. You'd need a log graph to even show the points... Meanwhile Intel don't care (about perf per watt in desktop applications).

A thing is sure RDNA1 is much better than GCN, another thing is sure RDNA2 has better per watts than RDNA1 if it was not the case PS5 and XSX GPU clock would be impossible after we need to wait what is the improved perf per clock by AMD for sure from GCN to RDNA1 there is a huge perf per clock improvement.

And for sure PS5 GPU is more powerful than a 5700 or 5700XT and with a better feature set. By how much? We need to wait for AMD RDNA2 GPU presentation.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
A thing is sure RDNA1 is much better than GCN, another thing is sure RDNA2 has better per watts than RDNA1 if it was not the case PS5 and XSX GPU clock would be impossible after we need to wait what is the improved perf per clock by AMD for sure from GCN to RDNA1 there is a huge perf per clock improvement.

And for sure PS5 GPU is more powerful than a 5700 or 5700XT and with a better feature set. By how much? We need to wait for AMD RDNA2 GPU presentation.

Yeah it's definitely a relevant factor of discussion for the consoles, but I never trust marketing slides. I'll be real curious to see real world performance when the PC GPUs come out!
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I'm sure the new consoles wll be pretty powerful. But by the time they come, AMD and Nvidia will have their new line of cpu and gpu's already out, or about to come out. And those products will be what the new consoles are compared to in terms of performance
Yeah that's my feeling as well. They're too closely related to PC hardware now and PC tech evolves too quickly, so unless the consoles have some unknown special features they'll essentially be mid-range PCs soon after the launch. I expect Pro and X (lol) upgrades within 3 years this time as well.
 

DarkFlame92

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,644
Right now yeah probably. But they are also 6 months out from release. GPU and CPU market will be very different then as well.

this plus a gaming PC is both a console and a PC,which means that even if the equilevant PC in terms of raw power costs 200$ more than consoles,it's actually cheaper in the sense that it does more things than a dedicated console.

It's like saying that a a fast car is cheaper than an equilevant fast car that has the ability to both fly and drive the roads. Well yeah,of course it does
 

JudgmentJay

Member
Nov 14, 2017
5,222
Texas
Glad I'm part of the 5%.

Really though most people on PC play at lower resolutions so they don't need nearly as much power. You can also tweak settings to match your setup.

But yes, consoles are amazing value.
 

Terbinator

Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,257
It's way more, around $1500 and you can't get an O/S for £5 unless you are using an illegal method to do so.

Also like I said, you need to go up again to beat the XSX.
Windows 10 is basically free. You can just download it from MS and install it and never activate like everyone else who didn't have an upgrade option.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
Considering all components based ln the same architecture (here, RDNA2/RYZEN/RADEON), aren't there other differences to take account of when comparing raw performances of a SoC/APU and a single board computer with a GPU over PCI lanes ?
 

McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,973
The most difficult thing to account for when comparing consoles to PC is the customization that makes the consoles outperform the raw specs that they are often compared to. So while I'm not able to spec out a comparative PC build I would imagine $1000 absolutely would not be enough to build a PC that performs the same as PS5/XSX overall. With RDNA2 and blazing fast SSD and the extra chips to reduce bottlenecks, I just don't see that happening. But maybe I'm just really mistaken.
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,261
Is the Steam survey still random/voluntary? I can't remember the last time I participated. I think I was running a i7 3770k, GTX 690 and 16GB ddr3 at 1330mhz. Ive done 4 GPU upgrades and 3 CPU/mobo upgrades since then...

Yeah. But they are changing this for VR (Valve time). They're going to start posting stats for how many people have used a particuliar HMD in the past 30 days.

Speaking of VR, it's the only real reason I care about power these days anyways. If Nvidia goes batshit with their pricing again, I'll probably just keep riding with my 1070 and wait to see what Sony's plans are for PSVR2.
 

Deleted member 25042

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,077
As of now, it's not even a debate.

The Series X for example has a 2080 class GPU, 8C/16T Zen 2 CPU, 16GB GDDR6, very fast 1TB SSD
You won't finds specs like these in 5% of gaming PCs
 
Last edited:

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,489
Austin
For only gaming of course since remember how much more a pc can do but yes I'd bet it's better then at least 90% of gaming PCs.
 

DirtySprite3

Banned
Sep 13, 2019
810
Yeah I'm not talking about the money, that's a boring discussion, I'm well aware of the cost to have a powerful gaming PC after jumping from ti to ti too many times. But it's interesting that without people upgrading the XSX will be ahead of the majority of gaming PCs in power. Multiplats will look and run better on console than on most PCs. That's new.
But PC gaming is constantly evolving and fast forward 6 months and add the upcoming GPU launches and the majority of gaming PCs will likely be ahead, not in cost but in power. You may wait until 2023 for your upgrade but many of us won't. I'm building a new rig whenever the 3000 serie launches.
I doubt the "majority" of pc gamers will have a near 2080 equivalent within the next six months. Unless you believe the ampere equivalent of a 1660 is closer to a 2080 then a 2070. It will alter the percentages but the majority of dedicated graphic cards will not be stronger. Not everyone who buys graphics cards go all out and post on forums. The majority are in the low-mid tiers. We can deduct that next gen low-mid tier will not match the price point of a 2080 at half the price and wattage. At most we can expect PS5 tier graphics at the $250 -$300 price point of nvidia next gen and that's being optimistic with their pricing history lol
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Yeah it's definitely a relevant factor of discussion for the consoles, but I never trust marketing slides. I'll be real curious to see real world performance when the PC GPUs come out!

I am a console guy and I find a bit premature to compare the performance/price of next-generation console and PC. It is better to wait the end of the year after the release of AMD Zen3 CPU, RDNA2 GPU, Nvidia Ampere GPU, and the lower price of Zen 2 CPU and Turing GPU.
 

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,631
This is a big reason I haven't upgraded. Once the rumors really started flying I realized my ancient pc looked like a wagon compared to these new consoles and I'd have to pay an arm and a leg to meet them. So I'll probably get these consoles and wait to upgrade my pc for a few years.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
I am a console guy and I find a bit premature to compare the performance/price of console and PC. It is better to wait the end of the year after AMD Zen3, RDNA2, Nvidia Ampere GPU, and the lower price of Zen 2 CPU and Turing GPU.

I'd say that people should at least wait until the consoles are out and we can see how they actually perform in real games. When someone like DF does an analysis we can guess at PC-relative settings and get some real world comparisons going.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
They had better be since they are expected to last 5-10 years, and by about year 2-3 they'll already be showing their age relatively speaking.
 

zen1990x

Member
Jul 1, 2019
459
Not by the time xsx releases.
even still, if that prices halves, which it probably won't, you still have to factor other things, like an Gen 4 SSD, CPU and RAM along with a Motherboard. That is more than likely double the cost of the XSX.

Consoles will never be beaten in terms of price.

95% of pc owners will have a system that is probably worse than an XSX. Only a small fraction are willing to upgrade every couple of years.
 

Megamind.

Member
Nov 18, 2019
1,006
And people very often can hunt down builds using deals, sales, refurbished, second hand, etc... to put together systems that fall way under estimates people make like this. Happens all the time in PC threads about building.

One of the best things about PC building is the huge breadth of options available when putting together a build. Very often people state top end prices for things like this.
And the exact same thing can be said about consoles. You can buy used, second hand or deals. There is almost the same variety of options here.

These consoles will offer performance and price that PCs just cant compete with.
 

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,115
Tennessee
You aren't crazy. It has a similar but beefed up CPU to mine and I have a 1080ti while it has 2080-ish. Add in NVME and RAM and...yeah if I wanna compete i am basically going to need to build a whole new PC.
Considering consoles are always specialized and therefore squeeze out even more magic sauce, and the power of these consoles is...terrifying lol. I can't wait to see first party offerings after a couple years it's going to blow people's minds.
 

c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,206
Glad I'm part of the 5%.

Really though most people on PC play at lower resolutions so they don't need nearly as much power. You can also tweak settings to match your setup.

But yes, consoles are amazing value.
Most people on PC are likely playing old games anyway if Steam is any indication. There''s a lot of older games listed in the top games by current player count and that's only 100 of thousands of games being played on Steam. There's not much point being in that 5% if all you do is play Dota 2, or Team Fortress 2 or, in my case, Guild Wars. :D
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,977
And the exact same thing can be said about consoles. You can buy used, second hand or deals. There is almost the same variety of options here.

These consoles will offer performance and price that PCs just cant compete with.
Yeh I get that, I was referring to the specific prices mentioned not the fact you can't match 1:1 which has always been the case.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,489
Austin
Yet I constantly read people on here say they'll get the PC version of Xbox exclusives.
There's 3 types of people who say this

1. PC/Switch/PS5 gamers who weren't going to buy an Xbox anyway but now get to play those games on PC.

2. PC/Switch/PS5 gamers who would've bought an Xbox secondary and a couple games over it's lifetime, now they may buy many more Xbox games overall or the same amount as usual, all on PCs.

3. Fanboys for another console who have no intention of buying anything and want to put down a system to make theirs look better.

Microsoft has been putting a lot of work in to secure all three groups. That's why there in such a good position going into next gen overall to be successful.

1 - Makes them extremely happy and is a lot of new customers.
2 - They're okay with gambling on because at minimum they sell a few games.
3 - They're working hard on the Xbox platform to try and convert at least some of them but they know they have a lot of work to do.
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902
What? I paid 300% more for my 2018 build, and it gives over 250% more performance compared to the Pro. If you're talking about building a brand new PC right now vs next-gen, then I don't know. We won't really know until the new cards are released, but the "leaks" make them seem like they too will be a gigantic upgrade over the current GPUs.

I think I was talking more about high end and top end stuff in general. For example, you can get a pretty decent surround setup for 1500€ but you can also spend 10000. Now going from 0 to decent surround setup is a much much much bigger jump than going for decent to top end but the absolute cost of goes up exponentially to a ridiculous degree. i got into PC gaming with a GTX 1080 in a pre built that I got used for 700ish which trumps both pro consoles but would going from my 1080 (let's say I payed 350 for it) to a 2080ti really give me the equivalent amount of power compared to price? I don't think so. That's what I meant. If you wanna beat these consoles early in their lifespan it is going to cost you way more for small improvements. This obviously only takes into account gaming performance and not other stuff that PC can do.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,519
I'm honestly surprised it's at 5%. I'd expect it to be <1% on Steam.

With PC's, the vast majority of people are using older hardware than even current non-refresh consoles. The people who actually are hardcore is way in the minority. The rest just have a machine for League, or Fortnite, or CS GO etc.

I think the new consoles are better value hardware-wise than the start of this gen, but I don't see why you're surprised about it. What percentage did you think it was back then?
 

Fall Damage

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,061
As a PC gamer first I love that this gen consoles are coming in stacked. Same with the potential mid gen upgrades. My hope is that console price/performance might have some effect on NVIDIA pricing.
 

filkry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,892
Yes. I've been primarily a PC player since 2009 but I expect to use a console more for a few years to save money. I'm not even sure the IO speeds on consoles are going to be possible on PC short of a complete change in how PC IO hardware is conceptualized - they both have hardware live decompression and much fewer layers to go through for IO requests. Then you think about how much the consoles can use compute due to shared memory...

I think PCs will need to be significantly more powerful than the console to brute force past these limitations.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,983
A 5700 is not comparable, RDNA2 is more powerful than RDNA1 and the GPU is more powerful than 5700XT. At the end of the year, maybe a 6700 RDNA 2 GPU with 36 CUs and the higher clock will release it will be comparable to the PS5 GPU. A 5700 does not have raytracing an so on.



You need a better GPU to match PS5 GPU too, perf per clock is better on PS5 5 RDNA2 GPU, the GPU has more flops and more features like raytracing...

RDNA2-1.jpg


Radeon-RX-Navi-2X-2-IPC.jpg

While power efficiency may increase, that doesn't mean the PS5 would be running at the same watts as a 5700xt, a 225w gpu. It probably is closer to the equivalent of what will be a mid-range ~150W RDNA2 gpu, so performance might be similar.