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Karak

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
Then why is a big deal being made of this versus its competition? Based on what you're saying this isn't like the SSD situation.
Well one part would be that Sony made a big point of talking about it. Which as a big music fan that's great. It is also the newness of the news and people digesting everything said today. However, until we see how everything comes together, its difficult to say how their end implementation will differ, or if the majority of people will be able to tell if they both do a good job.
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
United Kingdom
This is similar in some aspects i guess as a really rough example, to how I have separate sharc cores from my UAD interface/satellite setup for Mastering primarily for effects and plugins. Offloading my core cpu for a boost running such plugins in realtime.

Now "Tempest" offers up new raytraced audio, sound propagation effects along with convulation reverb... exciting times.

but yeah I'm not doing VR/binaural/3d/multichannel mixdowns yet but I can do so if a client chooses... but with the way this progressing would be fun to experiment.
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,026
I'm really excited for this. Focussing on this type of audio processing along with ray tracing the sources will be amazing for immersion.

I'm ok with using headphones but I hope they don't take too long to implement support for surround sound setups. You can't get that bass feeling through headphones. It was also a bit odd that Cerny didn't mention any kind of atmos or height channel set ups and specifically just said '6 channel' audio.
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
United Kingdom
I'm really excited for this. Focussing on this type of audio processing along with ray tracing the sources will be amazing for immersion.

I'm ok with using headphones but I hope they don't take too long to implement support for surround sound setups. You can't get that bass feeling through headphones. It was also a bit odd that Cerny didn't mention any kind of atmos or height channel set ups and specifically just said '6 channel' audio.
He said, "More speakers such as..." Base minimum for a usual standard surround setup is 6-channel or 5.1: L, C, R, RS, LS, SUB

Also PS5 would most likely to support higher channel speaker counts and Atmos/TrueHD/DTS:X/DTS-HD due the the UHD player or support for a receiver to decode the info.
 

ody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,116
With how much work they're putting into the audio I hope there's a system wide EQ without having to own their headphones to access an app. I have a pair of headphones that are a touch harsh in the high end and would love a way to tune it down.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,483
Austin
Really looking forward to seeing what DICE does with this, Battlefield already sounds fantastic.
Yup cant wait to see how teams like them, Infinity Ward with the new Cod engine, and horror studios take advantage. I really hope 3d audio stays important and support doesn't fade over time since now both platforms support hardware for it.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
Really hyped about any audio stuff they can do, personally. Excited to see (and hear!) where this goes.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
Yeah, improved audio is a game changer. I think people will be surprised by how significant improved audio could be to gaming.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Definitely interested in experiencing, feels like something you have to hear first hand.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Ironically, my Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones actually required photos of my ears as part of the surround sound and sound balancing calibration. I thought it was weird, but I guess it tunes frequencies to your specific ear canal shape or something. Presumably the PS5 will do something similar?
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,846
The tech itself is pretty cool and the chip is powerful. But I have my doubts about many devs paying attention to audio now simply because there's this chip in PS5 now...
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
United Kingdom
Ironically, my Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones actually required photos of my ears as part of the surround sound and sound balancing calibration. I thought it was weird, but I guess it tunes frequencies to your specific ear canal shape or something. Presumably the PS5 will do something similar?
it's for hrtf and they've recently released 360 reality audio to try through TIDAL and few other music streaming apps.
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
United Kingdom
The tech itself is pretty cool and the chip is powerful. But I have my doubts about many devs paying attention to audio now simply because there's this chip in PS5 now...
it's not about paying attention to audio, dev's already do that. It's about advancing the capabilities of what audio is doing and the immersion this will provide for gamers through this tech. Also when it comes to fighting for resources this will help a bunch, especially in VR games.
 

Hanbei

Member
Nov 11, 2017
4,089
With Sony focusing alot on sound, they really need to get PS5 to $399 so they can setup a "now as good as all the sound features of the PS5 are, we know you're really going to love the sound of its price...$399!" joke. Or something like that lol
Not going to happen.
 

Sonicfan059

Member
Mar 4, 2018
3,024
As someone with a PSVR, I can use 3D audio in headphones and in flat games that support it and it's awesome but this will be EVEN better as Cerny said.
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
I think it'll be really hard to market (a bit like VR or HDR) but that sounds impressive.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,515
UK
The audio segment was easily the most impressive sounding thing about the PS5. I'm not super into the details but I've always loved good sound.
 

Fuchsia

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,641
As an audio engineer, I'm VERY excited at the possibilities here.

I really appreciate Cerny's focus on audio with the PS5 and could feel he was also buzzing with the thought of all the possibilities. He seemed genuinely proud and excited, which I loved.

The HRTF solution is interesting. As he said himself, the tech has always worked best when you have your own personal profile created. There are companies that are able to do a pretty solid version of this by simply looking at a video of your ears. I do wonder if they'll eventually offer that as a service so that you can load up your own profile and have the 3D audio be as accurate as possible.

The issue of each user's individual room dimensions, and thus acoustics, kind of puts a weird wrench in how they can calculate 3D audio as the effect will depend on the listening "sweet spot." Like, if you have your couch right up against your back wall, that will affect reflections differently than if you had some space behind you before the wall. The technology relies on altering things like the phase of waveforms in such a way that it tricks your brain into thinking something is really coming from a certain direction. The factors of a user's listening environment could affect the phase of waveforms significantly and thus potentially mess up the 3D audio calculations when listening through speakers. As such, the listening experience may vary depending on: how close one of their 5 HRTF profiles matches the user's ears, the quality of the listener's room acoustics, actual quality of speakers they're listening through, and listening position. My Interest is piqued to hear how well it works out in different spaces and for different people (as the make up of your actual ears matter here)! But I trust Cerny and Co. to get it right and I can tell he believes strongly in the tech.

Beyond that, it really seems like they are nailing this and have thought of a way to bring 3D audio to a broad range of consumers in a meaningful way. For developers, the possibilities are very exciting. I hope people take it seriously. I don't know what audio engineer working in games wouldn't want to take advantage of this in a big way though. As far as the pipeline goes for films and games, audio is often seen as, sadly, less important and this gives it a chance to shine more and show how much it can add to the experience in terms of immersion. An audio team firing on all cylinders should be able to create some really mind blowing stuff now!

Thanks for caring, Sony!
 
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Ringten

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,195
I am one of those people that does not pay attention to sound. Maybe subconsciously it does affect the overall feel and enjoyment of a game but I have never put too much thought into it.
Only because of the introduction of a headphonejack in the dualshock 4 did I start using headphones. That is when I realised some of the finer details. Decided to purchase a PS Gold headset aswell recently. However I still have no issue using my tv speakers at times.

But I am curious to see what this new tech brings in store. Audio is not a make or break situation for me when it comes to purchasing next-gen, but shows the vision Sony is going for I guess. SSD/ Audio/ Haptic all seem stand out features. Its cute to see Cerny so excited and proud lol
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I can tell Era first hand, this HRTF technology is nothing short of revolutionary. Once you get your ears measured and get an accurate HRTF profile, you can sit in a large Dolby Atmos theatre with headphones on and play Atmos material into said headphones and it will be virtually indistinguishable from hearing the material played through the actual Atmos sound system.

Yes, it definitely lives and dies by the accuracy of the HRTF profile, and it is only applicable to headphones.
Even better is that the end-goal of HRTFs personalized to your ears in combination with propagation of sound is that it solves the sense of sound, completely.

When we get to that point, 1/5 of our senses can be 100% immersed just as it would in the real world. A Battlefield game would sound like an actual battlefield, a club would sound like being at an actual club.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,483
I'm excited about this. I enjoy audio in games when its good and it can transform the experience so much. It really annoys that so many games don't even bother with this aspect, games just playing canned sound effects at specified effects. Its ridiculous we still have that in the majority of games. No doppler effects, no reverb, and echo's and material sound effects whatever other technical terms there are for audio, none of that in the majority of games. I'm still sceptical that the majority of games won't really use this though, only first party no one else will be bothered as per usual. But it would be great if some did.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,287
Exciting stuff ahead of us. Having experienced what better audio can do with PSVR, I'm very excited to see what the PS5 has in store for us in this department.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,589
I heard that the 3D Audio calibration shipped with the PS5 is Mark Cerny saying "I'm here" or "The bathtub is ready" and shaking bottled bathtub salts like macarenas from different angles

Joke, on a side note this thread reminded me to charge up my Astros A50 and PS4 Wireless headsets. I think it's been a year or more without use I hope the batteries didn't get busted
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
DF's explanation and run down of some of the audio stuff is absolutely amazing. Really excited to see how it pans out. Positioning individual rain drops. Like. Wth lol.

 

Doom_Bringer

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,181
As an audio engineer, I'm VERY excited at the possibilities here.

I really appreciate Cerny's focus on audio with the PS5 and could feel he was also buzzing with the thought of all the possibilities. He seemed genuinely proud and excited, which I loved.

The HRTF solution is interesting. As he said himself, the tech has always worked best when you have your own personal profile created. There are companies that are able to do a pretty solid version of this by simply looking at a video of your ears. I do wonder if they'll eventually offer that as a service so that you can load up your own profile and have the 3D audio be as accurate as possible.

The issue of each user's individual room dimensions, and thus acoustics, kind of puts a weird wrench in how they can calculate 3D audio as the effect will depend on the listening "sweet spot." Like, if you have your couch write up against your back wall, that will affect reflections differently than if you had some space behind you before the wall. The technology relies on altering things like the phase of waveforms in such a way that it tricks your brain into thinking something is really coming from a certain direction. The factors of a user's listening environment could affect the phase of waveforms significantly and thus potentially mess up the 3D audio calculations when listening through speakers. As such, the listening experience may vary depending on: how close one of their 5 HRTF profiles matches the user's ears, the quality of the listener's room acoustics, actual quality of speakers they're listening through, and listening position. My Interest is piqued to hear how well it works out in different spaces and for different people (as the make up of your actual ears matter here)! But I trust Cerny and Co. to get it right and I can tell he believes strongly in the tech.

Beyond that, it really seems like they are nailing this and have thought of a way to bring 3D audio to a broad range of consumers in a meaningful way. For developers, the possibilities are very exciting. I hope people take it seriously. I don't know what audio engineer working in games wouldn't want to take advantage of this in a big way though. As far as the pipeline goes for films and games, audio is often seen as, sadly, less important and this gives it a chance to shine more and show how much it can add to the experience in terms of immersion. An audio team firing on all cylinders should be able to create some really mind blowing stuff now!

Thanks for caring, Sony!
this is good to hear
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
To everyone wondering how it would sound and how will they use your own ear, they're already doing it right now, you need to download an app to configure it and some sites like deezer offer special recording of songs in 360 audio.

101619_sony_360_reality_audio.jpg


The app even lets you chose what kind of (sony) headset you have to match it perfectly. As Cerny said this kind of tech works the best with an headset.
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,879
Yeah while I don't really need it, having the potential to do so is good, just like BC.

Hard to imagine devs will allocate the resources to 3d audio etc though..
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
This is gonna be great, already have a good pair of closed back headphones that will come in handy!

I loved this part of the presentation the most, really mind-blowing what they are attempting to do. Also cool that they are honest about it being work in progress and that we shoukd have improvements in the next few years.

I was under the impression that all of the audio will be handled this way without any effort from the devs. Am I right? I mean, it is all about reproducing the audio in a way that gives the 3d audio feeling.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,477
Seattle
People underestimate the impact audio can have on an experience like this. I was lucky enough to get a private tour of Skywalker Ranch from a friend who was working there, and seeing the way they brought scenes to life one audio layer at a time was mind blowing. In VR it's going to be hugely important, of course, but with a decent sound system while sitting in the sweet spot or with headphones it also has a lot of potential. The fact that it's all baked in and available to every developer so that improvements can affect every game already developed is also huge.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
DF's explanation and run down of some of the audio stuff is absolutely amazing. Really excited to see how it pans out. Positioning individual rain drops. Like. Wth lol.



Yeah, it was my favourite part of Cerny's presentation and DF sealed the deal for me, it's going to be amazing.
 

liquidmetal14

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,094
Florida
This type of stuff will yield major results for years to come.

I hope the media notes this as this seems to be truly next gen audio and I don't give a damn who you are, that matters.

I don't have a nearly 1k setup for nothing.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
Sounds neat, assuming we can hear the audio and the PS5 doesn't sound like a jet engine taking off like the PS4.
 

Geode

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,457
Sounds cool, but we'll see if most games take full advantage of it. I doubt most multi-platform games will. I know Series X will have 3D sound as well, but we don't know if it's comparable to what Sony is doing yet.
 

Razgriz417

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,107
Is it likely that these consoles will support wireless headphones over bluetooth?
i think that's doubtful as Bluetooth may be too slow to keep up with games. Lot of nicer bluetooth headphones all have reviews dinging them for use with video due to delay. Getting audio lag when watching video with bluetooth is already bad, it'd be pretty insufferable with gaming
 

Pikelet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
i think that's doubtful as Bluetooth may be too slow to keep up with games. Lot of nicer bluetooth headphones all have reviews dinging them for use with video due to delay. Getting audio lag when watching video with bluetooth is already bad, it'd be pretty insufferable with gaming
I'm no expert, but I don't think this is really the case any more with things like Aptx low latency.

I watch video on my iPad using both my Sony XM2 headphones as well as my airpods, and neither have any noticeable delay (certainly nothing that regular consumer would notice).

Also - if you have ever piped audio through a ps4 controller that would also be bluetooth, and while the quality there is pretty bad it's not noticeably laggy.
 

sun-drop

Banned
Aug 21, 2018
1,121
wellington , new zealand
i'm super glad i held off buying a new headset this month ..i was trying to decide between the new Gold's , or the platinum ... the difference basically was the later had 3D audio ... which a few games support, but not many.

this Ps5 feature basically makes this 3d audio the default ....and ...makes it work on any normal stereo headset you choose to use. freaking cool