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Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,209
I wanted this make a separate topic on what the PS5 is doing with audio. I got approval to make it so here we go!


Now I not a super big audio person but this stuff sounds amazing for someone without a great sound system setup. I never really appreciated good audio until the PS4 so I been a fool for awhile lol

So does any devs want to chime in on this? Feel free to do so :)
Seriously, this is hardcore. In conversation with Mark Cerny, he laments that he gets to meet very few audio engineers on his regular visits to developers and publishers - and that for delivering a next generation audio experience, Sony itself had to take point. Audio itself has been fairly poorly served across the current generation, typically getting a fraction of a Jaguar core to deliver 7.1 surround - far less than audio enjoyed in the PS3 era, where the SPUs proved ideally suited to audio processing tasks. In fact, Cerny points to PSVR as a modern-day standard bearer of sorts for surround audio, as it features a bespoke audio unit capable of supporting "50 pretty decent sound sources". PlayStation 5's new Tempest Engine supports hundreds - delivered with a much higher quality.

It's all based around the key tenets of presence and locality. Cerny describes presence vividly. In games today, rain is a simple, single sound. With the Tempest Engine, PlayStation 5 aims to engender the feeling of actually being in the middle of the shower by simulating the sound of individual raindrops hitting the ground around you. Locality? This is more about being able to precisely track where objects are located - and the science in delivering this is simply astonishing, having to taken into account the shape of your ears and even the size and shape of your head.

To precisely simulate accurate positioning, Sony needs to generate a table called the Head-related Transfer Function - HRTF - ideally on a per-person basis. How you perceive audio can be simulated by processing the soundscape through that table - a computationally expensive task to say the least. The Tempest Engine is effectively a re-engineered AMD GPU compute unit, stripped of its caches and relying solely on DMA transfers - just like a PS3 SPU. In turn, this opens the door to full utilisation of the CU's vector units.

"Where we ended up is a unit with roughly the same SIMD power and bandwidth as all eight Jaguar cores in the PS4 combined," Mark Cerny reveals in his presentation. "If we were to use the same algorithms as PSVR, that's enough for something like five thousand sound sources - but of course we want to use more complex algorithms, and we don't need anything like that number of sounds."


In short, the Tempest Engine opens the door to a genuine revolution in game audio - and while there are challenges ahead in seeing the system reach is fullest potential, one thing you don't need to worry about is buying into high-end audio hardware to enjoy the experience. In the short term, the simple solution will be to use headphones: two ears, two speakers - it's all you need and the Tempest Engine will handle the rest. Going forward, Sony is optimistic about great results from virtual surround from TV speakers and sound bars, with multi-speaker systems also due for support.

However, the ambition of the surround audio system is such that we may not see its potential fully realised for some time. Processing audio via the HRTF system presents challenges in that everyone's head and ears are different. Sony has modelled HRTFs for around a hundred people to get some idea of the variation and come up with five presets for launch. A configuration tool will ensure that the best is selected for you. Obviously though, being able to input your own HRTF will present the ultimate experience - and achieving this is ongoing research.

"Maybe you'll be sending us a photo of your ear, and we'll use a neural network to pick the closest HRTF in our library," suggests Mark Cerny. "Maybe you'll be sending us a video of your ears and your head, and we'll make a 3D model of them and synthesise the HRTF. Maybe you'll play an audio game to tune your HRTF, we'll be subtly changing it as you play, and home in on the HRTF that gives you the highest score, meaning that it matches you the best. This is a journey we'll all be taking together over the next few years. Ultimately, we're committed to enabling everyone to experience that next level of realism."
www.eurogamer.net

Inside PlayStation 5: the specs and the tech that deliver Sony's next-gen vision

Sony has broken its silence. PlayStation 5 specifications are now out in the open with system architect Mark Cerny deli…
 
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kurisub

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27
Really looking forward to seeing what DICE does with this, Battlefield already sounds fantastic.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,800
I'm enjoying Sony's focus on designing for immersion with this console.
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,797
Honestly, this is something that probably has to be experienced.

I have never sat in front of my PS4 and thought to myself: I wish the sound in this was better
 

Kalik

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
4,523
so this improved audio is mainly for people using their TV's built-in speakers or a cheap soundbar?...this is not for people who already have high end dedicated 5.1 or Atmos etc audio setups?
 

Mubrik_

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,725
Hoping respawn implements this somehow into Apex legends after ps5 launch
Would be absolutely crazy
 

Lagspike_exe

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
1,974
so this improved audio is mainly for people using their TV's built-in speakers or a cheap soundbar?...this is not for people who already have high end dedicated 5.1 or Atmos etc audio setups?
It's for everyone. People will high end setups will probably be able to benefit the most because their hardware will be able to actually accurately project all this stuff.
 

Augemitbutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,290
love good sound. I hope more people will appreciate their sound setups next gen. MGS was so very good with sound, sad not many followed on their footsteps.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,921
The Netherlands
its funny that my ex-gamedev buddy who now works with high end stuff was actually most excited about this regarding the two reveals, hehe.

Im looking forward to what it will enable, but audio is one of those things you have to experience so it will be a tough sellingpoint.
 

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
I'm going to send in a picture of my ear so I can get the best sound possible 😌
 

mentallyinept

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,403
This has massive potential, but essentially requires the use of headphones at the moment to take full advantage of it, and to have a HRTF that is close to one of their models.

If Sony first parties are doing this on all their games, I'm definitely picking up a nice set of wireless headphones to use with the PS5.
 

ObbyDent

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,910
Los Angeles
Can someone explain in layman's terms how this is different than the audio stuff that Microsoft talked about?
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
I can tell Era first hand, this HRTF technology is nothing short of revolutionary. Once you get your ears measured and get an accurate HRTF profile, you can sit in a large Dolby Atmos theatre with headphones on and play Atmos material into said headphones and it will be virtually indistinguishable from hearing the material played through the actual Atmos sound system.
This has massive potential, but essentially requires the use of headphones at the moment to take full advantage of it, and to have a HRTF that is close to one of their models.

If Sony first parties are doing this on all their games, I'm definitely picking up a nice set of wireless headphones to use with the PS5.
Yes, it definitely lives and dies by the accuracy of the HRTF profile, and it is only applicable to headphones.
 
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joeblow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,930
Laker Nation
Through my PSVR and headphones I've listened to some impressive 3D audio demos on Youtube, and the 3D audio in a few games like Uncharted 4 was pretty cool as well (audio fed through PSVR via PS4 Pro, but I played the game watching my big screen HDTV).

Too bad there probably isn't an easy way for PS4 owners to experience the PS5 version in a Sony-made demo.
 

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,399
I really enjoyed the audio part of the conference today. 3D audio in the few games I have tried it has been a game changer for me. I've used it with regular pair of headphones, and it made PSVR, and games like hellblade that much more immersive. I'm glad some effort is being put in to audio, since its been largely ignored in past gens. If you want pictures of my ears... send me a DM
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,227
I was a believer when I first fired up the RE7 VR demo. You start in that TV room and you hear Jack walking around upstairs... and it actually sounds like he's up above you to the left or right, on cheapo $5 earbuds

Glad to see audio get some attention for a change
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
This is definitely something Sony is pushing and someones baby over at Sony, but I couldn't have cared less during the presentation. Yes the tech is impressive, but better audio is not in my top 5 or top 10 things I would have wanted them to focus on.

Maybe it is a "experience it to believe it" thing, we'll see, but in reality, audio is good enough as it is, and making it better isn't going to make a game better for me at least. I'm sure audio people out there want this.
 

FTF

Member
Oct 28, 2017
28,418
New York
With Sony focusing alot on sound, they really need to get PS5 to $399 so they can setup a "now as good as all the sound features of the PS5 are, we know you're really going to love the sound of its price...$399!" joke. Or something like that lol
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
I really wished there was more focus on the propagation of audio instead of the processing.



^ this could be accomplished with a single CPU thread on PS5.
 

•79•

Banned
Sep 22, 2018
608
South West London, UK
This has massive potential, but essentially requires the use of headphones at the moment to take full advantage of it, and to have a HRTF that is close to one of their models.

If Sony first parties are doing this on all their games, I'm definitely picking up a nice set of wireless headphones to use with the PS5.
Sounds absolutely ideal for a horror game, Resident Evil or a Silent Hill…
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,024
NYC
Hopefully 3D Audio via headphones is a thing devs utilize next gen. Between this & xbox dolby atmos, it's gonna get very immersive.

Do we know if the PS5 controller has a headphone amp in it?
 

SuperBoss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,531
This stuff sounds amazing actually. I can't wait to play through a thunderstorm level..

...oh god horror games are gonna give me a heartattack!!
 

Bad_Boy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Tempest sounds like an hardware evolution of their 3d Reality tech from 2019 ces. Even using the same idea of using a picture of someones ear for better results. I remember seeing this guy demo it and him being utterly amazed by the results.


Anyone looking forward to the 3d audio should watch this!



I can't wait to try it out on the PS5.
 

YukiroCTX

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,996
I really hope it works with any headset. Sound is very much underappreciated and in dire need for a lot of games which rely heavily on sound. MP games in general or Stealth being able to accurately pinpoint sound but also the accuracy and quality of the sound distances but that rain example would be incredible.
 

Necron

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,292
Switzerland
That Dead Space mention makes me wish we'd get a new one.

Imagine it now with those 3D audio improvements on PS5 + headset...
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,664
They demoed their 3D audio tech last year and most journalists came away impressed with it over stuff like Atmos virtualization.

www.pcworld.idg.com.au

CES 2019: 3D Audio was one of the loudest trends on the show floor

While 8K and rollable TVs made for some of the flashiest tech on the CES 2019 showfloor, 3D and spatial audio tech was also on the rise.

It even has the whole taking picture of your ear thing detailed in the article although it seems it was another company doing that.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
so this improved audio is mainly for people using their TV's built-in speakers or a cheap soundbar?...this is not for people who already have high end dedicated 5.1 or Atmos etc audio setups?

You should generally be able to hear it even if you have a Atmos setup or a headset.
 

Lom1lo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,433
I have no clue about audio, has the Xbox sx also something like this ? Sounds great !
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,119
Probably works the best with headphones. Isn't this the stuff Sony was working with for with VR? I wonder third party titles will support it or if it's only for Sony's own games.

I have no clue about audio, has the Xbox sx also something like this ? Sounds great !

The Series X uses Atmos which is what the 1X and PC has supported since 2017.