Well good news for you. Sack boy PS4 looks and runs fantastic on the PS5... and it's free. And you get to use DS4's with it! Same thing I did over thanksgiving and we had a blast playing.
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PS5 System Message: "PS5 Games can't be played with the DS4"...but Sony Remote Play App doesn't care and it works fine?
- Thread starter TitanicFall
- Start date
People like to mock the term, but the fact you can use the DS4 for remote play of PS5 games, as well as turn off all DS-specific functions in the OS, makes this genuinely anti-consumer.
You also can't tell me they're going to enforce haptics and resistive triggers on third party controllers.
You also can't tell me they're going to enforce haptics and resistive triggers on third party controllers.
The dualsense having toggles for all of its unique functionality makes any argument to force it moot. Without the controller having an actual extra button (like the DS4 having the touchpad) there's no reason it can't have other controllers work.
This is done purely to get people to buy more new controllers and will just result in me avoiding the PS5 as a local co-op platform, when I eventually get one. It's just too expensive buying three extra controllers, when other platforms allow you to use your old ones.
Why would you post something like this? It seems like you have a personal interest in people not being able to use the DS4 for PS5 games, as if it somehow affected you directly or something. You can turn off all the unique features of the DualSense on a OS level, effectively turning it into a DS4. There's zero reason why you would need to use a DualSense instead of the DS4, and there's zero reason why you should play a PS4 version of a game instead of the PS5 version because of the controller options.
This is so Sony doesn't have to support the DS4 and so developers have every excuse to be able to use its new features. This is a common thing in platform development.
If a game somehow works not as well with a DS4 in a PS5 game, that's bad. But if it doesn't work well over cloud, ehh Sony can say we don't support DS4 on PS5 games.
If a game somehow works not as well with a DS4 in a PS5 game, that's bad. But if it doesn't work well over cloud, ehh Sony can say we don't support DS4 on PS5 games.
A lot of people explained this. If something can be turned off, you can still require it, because it can just be turned on again. But if something can be removed completely with a different controller, then Sony is going to get complaints and they refuse to deal with that.
If you play a game that say, has a mechanic that only works with the midway trigger feature, and you cannot continue because of it due to you having turned off that feature on your controller, then you can just turn on that feature on your controller. But let's say your Dualsense breaks and you want to get a replacement so you just use the DS4 you already had lying around from your PS4. Then you can't advance in the game. Maybe you try to get a refund for the game. Maybe you complain about it and make Sony spend time on you. They aren't interested in that at all.
Lmao
*Give up*
Its not like his married to them or something. Also not everyone who own Sony cares about their exclusive.
OT
Money OP, It's all about money.
Turning off Dualsense features is your choice. Turning on Dualsense features on a DS4 is not possible therefore its reducing choice.
Of course having the option for DS4s for multiplayer games makes sense but I'm pretty ok with dualsense being mandated for single player at least - and everyone will have one. I'd go further and suggest that the systems (both PS and XBox) should by default support usb/generic controllers for multiplayer games.
If they ever want to take on MS and really push PS Now they aren't going to be able to have games need Dual Sense anyway. Be as well allowing DS4 to be used.
Yeah I'm not even slightly convinced by any of the arguments for Sony's decision on this. We're gonna get cheap third-party controllers for PS5 that don't have all the haptics and trigger features and they'll work just fine, perfect for people on a budget in need of a second and third controller. There's no reason why a DS4 couldn't effectively work the same, but then Sony would be losing money. It's not necessarily greed but it does feel like a business decision. Reading this thread I have a feeling some people would advocate blocking the sale of third-party controllers just to 'protect the integrity' of some triggers.
Except again, the ps5 titles work just fine with DS4 via remote play. Also I'm pretty sure querying the controller device for supported capabilities has been a thing since forever.
Lol. People affect me. Not the hardware or the software. Coming up with every hypothetical situation to try to make a point is so stupid to me.
Chettlar and others explained it best, but I was trying to suggest a solution that works. You wanna play Sack boy with 4 players, boot up the PS4 version that works with the controllers. Resume back on PS5 when the party's over.
This was known before the PS5 came out. What's the sense of crying about it now especially after you've known this and still made the decision to buy a PS5?
I feel bad for the op if the controller is uncomfortable, but there's no other way around it, the Dualsense is a big part of the PS5 wether you turn its features off or not.
I guarantee that there will never ever be a game on the PS5 that relies on a midway trigger feature to progress. I'd imagine if there was one it'd fail certification.
Nobody should be defending this, it's an awful decision that is in no way helping the player experience or creators, and I say that as a creator.
My sister in law has serious issues with her hands and finds the DS4 significantly
Nah, if you can turn something off in an OS level accessibility setting then games would never be allowed to rely on them as a mandatory thing.
My sister in law has serious issues with her hands and finds the DS4 significantly
Nah, if you can turn something off in an OS level accessibility setting then games would never be allowed to rely on them as a mandatory thing.
Make the DualSense mandatory in a game that absolutely requires its features (none so far), make any other PS4-compatible controller (DS4, third-party alternatives) an option for games that don't require them (all of them so far). There, problem solved.
People affect you? How do I affect you by playing a game the way I want? Let's not give people options, be them for personal preference or accessibility, because it affects you. Woah.
Seeing what's been written, I think you either skipped the posts you didn't like or completely missed the point. If anything, it's people who oppose supporting the DS4 who are coming up with hypothetical scenarios on why it shouldn't be like that. See Chettlar's post, the very same that you mention. So far, no game needs anything of what they mention. No, the vast majority of us see this is plain and simple: support the DS4 by default, limit its use in games that absolutely require the use of the DS features on a case-by-case basis (should there ever be one). Your "solution" is the same as we have a product for you, the Xbox 360.
Also, you really, really need to come down your high horse. Nobody is "crying" over this. People are expressing their opinions, whether you like them or not. Especially after seeing how superflous all the DS features have been and how easy it's to turn them off. You have not outlined a single feature that makes the DS needed for PS5 games. You've just dismissed anyone arguing why supporting the DS4 (or derivatives) is a good idea.
sure but I'd consider remote play an abstracted experience so its reasonable to not support dualsense features as you're likely using a secondary controller. Sony want you to use the dualsense on the actual console. Like I said - I agree it should support DS4s for players 2-x
Yeah. I agree, hypothetical situations that don't exist are pretty dumb. Can you imagine if people did it on behalf of a company instead of the rights of consumers haha that would be crazy.
I hope you corporate apologists consider going to ablegamer.com and making a contribution of at least the bare minimum the worth of a controller, because if you've got this much love for Sony you should revel in the chance to help some gamers that get fucked by their decisions enjoy some of their games.
Have there ever, in the history of gaming, been such a case? Where a game actually requires you to change system levels settings in order to work properly. And even if you manage to find one such case your whole point is still mute. The benefit for the consumer being able to use their old controllers far outweigh any such far reaching hypothetical edge case scenario.
And the whole "developers wouldn't use the dual sense features if players can use their ds4s"-argument. I don't even know how to respond to that. Do you really honestly think that?
Sackboy? Also, I'm assuming there will be more games released after these launch titles.
I don't think anyone in here expects 100% perfect compatibility with all PS5 games. I don't think anyone who owns a DS4 expects it to magically start providing haptic feedback.
It's sufficient to slap on a "not compatible with DualShock 4" label if the game truly breaks without haptics, or perhaps even a "plays best with DualSense" label in case haptics significantly contribute to the experience.
But I think there will be few, if any, games where disabling haptics will render the game unplayable. It could possibly even be part of Sony's cert process to disallow it.
Not everyone cares about Sony's games, as indicated by their sales figures being significantly less than the console install base.
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DS5 is just a little bit too bulky. It introduces a tension in my hands after an hour or so that I have never felt in any controller before. Going back to play BC games with DS4 and Xbox one pad on PC instantly alleviated the hand pain I had been getting since playing my PS5. If I Could continue with the DS4 I would purely for health and longevity reasons. RSI is no joke
It's not free if you bought the PS5 version though...
Except one problem is the save data isn't bidirectional because Sony has a poor way of managing save data.
But if the DualSense is a big part of the PS5, and yet you turn off those features so it's the same as the DS4, then how does that big part of the PS5 make any impact? Not to mention it's on a game that's cross gen which means the game is perfectly functional with a DS4. There's no reason to make this a universal limitation rather than a limitation that can at the very minimum be decided on a case by case basis.
Plus "crying" about things has changed how companies handle things. Not always, but if enough outcry happens over it, things can change. So it's not pointless to simply just take it without voicing issues about it. Sony can change this policy so that's the sense of "crying" about it. Hell it's amazing you say just take it as is without complaining when we're literally witnessing what a lot of people complaining does with what's going on with Cyberpunk.
You can turn the DualSense features off, so your argument doesn't hold much weight. The game needs to function without the special features, hence there not being even one reason why DS4 shouldn't work. With the exception of *here comes the moneeeeyy*
First of all I'm not on a high horse. This situation makes you angry/ upset. I'm not upset that I can't play with DS4 controllers on my PS5. That's my opinion. The post I quoted sought to have a problem with playing Sackboy with 4 players, so I said you can play the PS4 version which solves that problem. I mean you're not using the DS features anyway so what's the big deal!?
Frankly, none of you have made a strong case for this on why this is a big problem.
This is what you call a high horse.^^^^^^
Nah, I'm no corporate apologist. And don't need to be to disagree with you.
and as far as the other half of your shit post..
I've already donated hundreds to children's hospitals these past couple of months and have fed the less fortunate 4 times this week alone. I also aided some era members from other countries buy games they don't have access too. What the have you done lately?
*Turns off all the new controllers features *
"See it's the same as a DualShock!"☺
The PS5 physical release does not give you the PS4 version. Also, save data isn't bidirectional. There's two issues right there.
Uhm, no. The big deal is that you want to force people playing the PS4 version, when Sony could easily allow DS4 on PS5. I don't want to compare you to him, but the argument somewhat reminded me of Don Mattrick and his 360 argument.
Yep.
Arguing for something that greatly benefits the consumer (not having to spend $$$ on additional controllers, having more options for comfort etc, making it easier to arrange local multiplayer), as well as the environment, over lining a corporation's pockets is not a strong case?
Some of y'all must have shares in Sony.
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How can you defend Sony here, when you can already turn off all of the Dualsense's features anyway, therefore making it just a fancy DS4?
How can you defend Sony here, when you can already use a DS4 for PS5 games... over remote play.
There's LITERALLY no excuse besides greed!
How can you defend Sony here, when you can already use a DS4 for PS5 games... over remote play.
There's LITERALLY no excuse besides greed!
I feel like there has been some genuine confusion when it comes to crossgen games. So PS5 games are DualSense-only, while PS4 games work with the DS4 as they always have. Great.
But when an old game like Destiny that's been around for years on PS4 gets a PS5 version (which is essentially just a 4k/60fps patch and doesn't utilize the DualSense capabilities whatsoever, by the way), suddenly it's DualSense only. Just...why?
Same with Sackboy or any recent games with both unique PS4 and PS5 listings in the PSN Store. If the PS4 version works fine with the DS4, why shouldn't it work on the PS5? The PS5 version is literally more limited for no good reason.
So now you have people like us installing the PS4 versions of games on our PS5s just so we can play some local multiplayer without selling a kidney to replace all our DS4s right at launch. Is that really the outcome Playstation is aiming to achieve? It seems more like an oversight to me.
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But then my recommendation to play the PS4 version isn't justified? You actually get what you want with a decent version of the game.
The Dualsense is a big part of the PS5. You're more than welcome to cut the stuff off but I'm pretty sure if you bought a PS5 it was to enjoy those features at your leisure.
I am well aware that complaining about things can get stuff done. But going in knowing what you're getting after the fact kinda relieves you of that luxury. I'm not try to stop or get in the way of anyone's campaign, I just personally don't see the big deal. Especially after you bought a PS5.
But the PS4 version and the digital version does and has been well known before launch. And you can use your DS4 controllers with it. Like I said before, that's what I resulted to and we were fine.
Like, If Sony is going to change it so you can use the DualShocks, then that's good for that need it.
There's no defense about this. 99% of the time it's reactions to weak arguments:
-"They have to sell those controllers!"
People are still gonna buy new controllers regardless. Albeit shock or sense. But yes using DualShock wouldn't be bad.
-"You can turn off all the feature"
Yea, if you did that it'd the same as any controller.
These are weak arguments to me. That's all really, but interesting discussion.
There you go again, projecting. This issue is not making me "angry/upset". What makes me "angry/upset" is that you systematically shut down anyone who isn't agreeing with you, disregard any issues with being forced to use the DualSense and resort to a snarky, holier-than-thou tone throughout all your messages.
Come on, now. At least be honest. You're not interested in any kind of discussion related to this matter.
Giving the ability to use DS4 games doesn't somehow negate the existence of the DualSense controller. Every system comes with one. At a bare minimum there's no reason to not allow the developer to make the choice on what controller is supported rather than Sony determining for all developers that you cannot allow the use of DS4s. Heck, even if you want to mandate that the DualSense must be used at a minimum, that doesn't mean secondary controllers should ban DS4s.
You don't see the big deal of being forced to pay $70 per controller to play local multiplayer games? Overcooked All You Can Eat is PS5 only and doesn't do very well as a single player game. The only way that game really shines is multiplayer which means you're forced to put down an extra $210 in order to have a family of four play that game. Explain to me how the DualSense is a necessary part of that game and why a developer shouldn't be allowed to determine that people can use DS4s for extra controllers? Heck, the developer benefits from this because it means it's more likely that someone will have enough controllers to play that game the way that most people enjoy it.
If someone got the game as a gift, they wouldn't have that option and would be stuck behind an unnecessary restriction. Or someone could have bought the PS5 version not knowing about either the restriction of the DS4s not being allowed or not knowing that the PS5 version didn't have the PS4 version included where as the reverse does and the digital does. Two of three options offer it, one doesn't and they're all the same price. There are plenty of ways that someone could have the PS5 version and stuck behind this restriction.
I don't see how they're weak arguments when it shows that the features of the DualSense aren't mandatory for the game to work. Heck, the fact that the game exists in the PS4 shows that DualSense is not mandatory for the game to work. There's absolutely no good reason for Sony to make the determination across all developers that you cannot use a DS4 on a PS5 game rather than leaving it to the developer to decide what's good for their game design. It would be like denying people using arcade sticks for fighting games because Sony wants you to use a DualSense instead rather than letting the developer to make that determination.
This kind of threads are always amusing to read because when its about a company making a shitty, indefensible decision based purely on greed you get to watch the fanboys squirm as they desperately try to defend it. The mental gymnastics that are on display here are truly something else.
This is the way.
Similar to the last time we got this kind of sea change in controller design with the original Dualshock, you had maybe one or two games that absolutely required it like Ape Escape, games where it greatly enhanced the experience like Metal Gear Solid, and most games that just sort of did the bare minimum.
I agree with both of you. You know, if there wouldn't be system wide option to basically turn the DualSense into a DS4, then there would be one argument to defend this. But this isn't the case, thus there are literally ZERO arguments that DS4 shouldn't work from a consumer pov. How can anyone defend this?
That's why I recommended the PS4 version in my first post. My thing was a work around the problem as I don't see Sony going back on this.
Well let me try to clear this air. My opinion is not more important than yours. I don't think like that. I just stand by my opinion. I'm well aware that I'm in the minority in this thread. Maybe a lil snarky, but not holier than thou or some shit.. lol
To your first paragraph, I don't agree. The PS5 is the PS5 and should be supported for those versions of whatever game. Sounds like you're saying a dev should be able to make a PS5 game and only support the DS4 if they choose too. While I'm all for devs, nah.. that's madness.
I mean, if we're talking hypothetically; what if you only had one controller and wanted to play 4 players.. are you still "forced" to buying more controllers? Right now if you wanted to play 4 players on sackboy you either buy more controllers or just play the PS4 version like I suggested 2 hours ago. Lol
I have never in any real world situation went out and bough multiple controllers for a rare gaming sesh. People have always brought their own, we shared what I had or I had enough. I'm not buying no damn 2 controllers to play 4 players once or twice a year. Either we pass that thing around or they bring their own. Or break out what I do have enough controllers for.
like I said before I'm not defending anything and likewise you won't see me pulling out "what if's" and what abouts to make my point. I like the Dualsense features and naturally can't agree with some arguments. But to just toss aside an easy fix like playing a lesser is kinda unreal. Of course it's be dope if you could just use old controllers in these instances, but ifyour company want to play the PS5 let em play it in it's entirety with the DS.
If I get more @'s (I'm sure I will) I'll respond tomorrow, I'm tired.
Or steering wheels?
Edit: apparently these and fight sticks can but they're having to be certified on a case by case.
Good lord how are people defending this shit. Stop yourself. Just like the lack of cold storage option in the other thread. "Who plays more than one game at time?!" These are multi billion dollar corporations - it's okay to be critical of them.
It should at least be an option for developers to enable DS4 support.
I can see how Astro's Playroom would have you use a DS5, and even there it's not impossible to play with a DS4. The only time where a DS5 would be necessary is if the game uses the microphone in a way that simply does not have an alternative. Everything else the DS4 can do just as well.
I can see how Astro's Playroom would have you use a DS5, and even there it's not impossible to play with a DS4. The only time where a DS5 would be necessary is if the game uses the microphone in a way that simply does not have an alternative. Everything else the DS4 can do just as well.
It's baffling to be honest. I am glad people with higher standards exist, because otherwise we would get consoles with 120GB SSD, PS2/Xbox/GC OS, 8 DVD's (who needs br?), download speed of 10mb, and so on.
Going back to the topic it's insane this gets defended, because there exist no game currently, which doesn't work with DS feature turned off. Not even one and since this is a system level feature, there will probably never be a game that needs the DS features to work. So I want to know from those people defending this, what's so special about the DualSense, if you turn everything off? What's the reason a consumer needs a DualSense, when everything is turned off? Why doesn't a DS4 work?
It's almost fascinating, like some people think any criticism of Sony will somehow affect the company so defend at all costs.
Reading threads here that start with any criticism of Sony no matter how small almost always are flooded with defense posts to where the OP is the one to get criticized
Would you be interested in selling me your PS5? It seems you don't need one. I have a base PS4 I can include in the trade. I bet you won't miss much.
Maybe you should actually read what I said. I specifically say you can mandate the use of a DualSense while giving the option for secondary controllers for multiplayer games to be DS4s. Also, I gave an example of what you're saying is fighting games can't exist to use arcade sticks because they are required to use the DualSense. So should fighting games not be allowed to use arcade sticks?
DS4 controllers would still be cheaper than DualSense controllers though and they person would have options in how they would want to proceed.
Oh good, I'll go tell my kids to bring their own... Great idea... No wait, it's a terrible reason to excuse this.
You absolutely are defending it by being so vocal and active trying to downplay it. Nobody is saying the DualSense is bad or shouldn't be used; it's a fantastic controller but there's no good reason to make a universal ban on DS4s. Why not ban arcade sticks? They don't have DualSense functionality and the DualSense can perfectly play fighting games if Sony wanted to mandate it. There is absolutely no good reason why games like Sackboy and Overcooked should require everyone to have a DualSense controller and the option DS4s to be used as second, third, and fourth player controllers should be allowed as an option. It serves no purpose to try and down play or defend people not having that option for games that don't require the functionality. Heck, why even allow DS4s to work on the system to begin with to play PS4 games when people can play them with a DualSense? Heck, it would make a whole lot more sense if DS4s just didn't work on the PS5 to begin with as a reason why this isn't allowed but that's not the case.
If I had to guess why Sony does this, it is less to differentiate the PS5 from the PS4. It's to differentiate the PS5 from the Xbox ecosystem. When you get rid of the dual sense, you lost a big part of what makes the PS5 a PS5.
That differentiation may not be meaningful to some, but it's not insane that Sony would do this. The dualsense is kind of awesome and probably represents quite a bit of R&D cost to Sony.
That differentiation may not be meaningful to some, but it's not insane that Sony would do this. The dualsense is kind of awesome and probably represents quite a bit of R&D cost to Sony.
if the dualsense is truly a differentiator, it should stand on its own