PS5 System Message: "PS5 Games can't be played with the DS4"...but Sony Remote Play App doesn't care and it works fine?

[Teamocil]

it's so stupid. not to mention the concerns around accessibility controllers made for PS4–those likely don't work with the PS5 either. Just a stupid money motivated decision.

I assume the DS4 is cheaper to manufacture too, and I'm willing to bet that if someone was looking at buying some backup controllers theres a higher chance they'd said "nah" at a $75 controller. making the DS4 compatible means they could grab those people at $50 each.

They are keeping the ecosystem stable for PS5 developers so that they can safely focus on unique DS features for each game. So they know that every PS5 user will interact with their game with one type of a gamepad.

Remote Play DS4 compatibility is a optional benefit.

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lol you ate that line right up huh

 

[Cyanity]

Here before Sony patches out ds4 support for remote play because of this thread

 

[Kyonashi]

The thing I'm struggling with at the moment is not being able to use the DualSense on iPad remote play. I don't have any accessible laptop or DualShock 4s to hand, so I just can't make remote play work at all right now until that's supported.

 

[RedHeat]

"The DualSense is the most next-gen thing so far! It's amazing!"

"Nah, I'm gonna turn that shit off anyways. Fuck that shit, lemme buy more DS4's."

 

[L.O.R.D]

That's not it, you can play PS4 games on the PS5 with the DS4. The answer is Sony doesn't want to support the DS4 on PS5 games.

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WTF, this is really stupid.
it will be funny if a donlge like mayflash managed to fix that.

 

[OGM_Madness]

People will defend it, but it really sucks. Using Dual Sense for single player games makes a little sense, but if I want to play Sackboy co-op with the family, I rather give my kids a DS4 than a brand new controller, plus it could be easier for them to hold/grasp.

 

[NLCPRESIDENT]

To not have to run out and spend over $200 on DualSense controllers to invite some friends over for local multiplayer, when the group likely can

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And what PS5 game is this exactly? 🤔

People will defend it, but it really sucks. Using Dual Sense for single player games makes a little sense, but if I want to play Sackboy co-op with the family, I rather give my kids a DS4 than a brand new controller, plus it could be easier for them to hold/grasp.

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Why don't you just play the PS4 version of Sackboy?

 

[2shd]

Say a game requires the use of haptic feedback - what then?

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Then a DualSense would be required as that would be the developer's decision.

However, it probably wouldn't be a wise one given you can turn off DualSense features at the system level.

There's no reason why a DS4 shouldn't be able to be used otherwise. The justification for locking out DS4s across the board as a blanket policy is nonexistent.

 

[Deleted member 18400]

The "during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC" stinger to make reasonable criticism sound unreasonable here is a bit much here.

We're talking about blocking support for controllers that already are fully functional and compatible with the system. I find it hard to believe allowing DS4 support for PS5 games in this case is an extreme ask.

Perhaps Sony should let your extra controllers that are already fully recognized and working with the system not be software blocked, so your family can play too without having to spend an additional $70 during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

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This forum exists in a room where everyone just hears their own echoes.

This entire post just proves my point and is presented as some kind of counter argument instead.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

I use my PS5 via remote play most of the time so it's a 100% bullshit restriction. It works just fine with a DS4 (or any controller you can trick remote play into thinking is a DS4). Crazy to see people defend this stuff

 

[Alvis]

Say a game requires the use of haptic feedback - what then?

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That specific game would be incompatible with the DS4 while the rest of the catalogue wouldn't? It's kinda common sense

 

[Navidson REC]

OK, let me ask because maybe I am looking at it wrong. When people bought the PS4, could you use the PS3 controller for all games? How about when people bought the PS3, could you use the PS2 controller for all games?

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So because something hasn't been done in the past means it shouldn't be done in the future? What the fuck kind of argument is that? Nintendo and Microsoft have shown that this is entirely possible.

Wait really? So if you have old controllers they work on the new systems? That's crazy

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It's great! The moment I unboxed my Series X I had 4 controllers ready to go without needing to shell out another 200 bucks. Local MP sessions have been a blast! :)

That's strange I don't know any multiplatform games better than sonys exclusives, you should try some more sometime

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Uh what. Sony isn't the only company with exclusives, and not everyone is into their games. Maybe you should try more games on different platforms sometime? (Btw, not trying to discount their games. Stuff like TLOU and GoW is great. But so is stuff like Zelda, Smash, Forza, or Halo.)

We now live in a fictional crazy world where people call Microsoft, MICROSOFT, pro consumer lol. Fucking hell.

Anyways yeah it's hard to argue with the DS4 not being allowed when it comes to disabilities. That's just fucked up.

At first I was like, why on Earth would anyone want to play with the DS4 when the DualSense is twice the controller.....but yeah, in my head I'd completely forgotten specialized controllers.

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The only thing missing from this post is "M$"

Microsoft is a huge, diverse company with a long history. They aren't saints, but not the devil either. Plenty of space in between those extremes for nuanced opinions.

 

[bsigg]

Say a game requires the use of haptic feedback - what then?

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This isn't possible (games requiring the use of haptics or the trigger effect) since there is a system level toggle to turn it off.

 

[dep9000]

They are keeping the ecosystem stable for PS5 developers so that they can safely focus on unique DS features for each game. So they know that every PS5 user will interact with their game with one type of a gamepad.

Remote Play DS4 compatibility is a optional benefit.

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So is remote play on ps5 not stable with the ps4 controller? It sounds like it is stable. So it's not an issue with stability. It sounds like it's more an issue of money and Sony trying to sell controllers

 

[Revan Ren]

The most annoying part for me is I've grown so used to using my Astro c40 in shooters because of the back paddle buttons. I can't use it in cod or destiny because they are native games now, but if I install the PS4 versions of those same games on PS5 I can use the Astro controller.

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Yeah, I have Battle Beaver sticks in my C40 - it's a great controller but of course can't use it on my PS5.

 

[Jakenbakin]

This forum exists in a room where everyone just hears their own echoes.

This entire post just proves my point and is presented as some kind of counter argument instead.

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Yeah, I'm still waiting for your response saying that those who are against anti-consumer and ableist practices are whiny (oh and entitled).

And no, that post doesn't prove your point either. Unless you happen to think gamers (including those who have to buy cost prohibitive special equipment) are being done a favor by Sony's corporate interest in selling new accessories when the old ones are still supported, and support every essential function that the new accessory does.

I'd say you could do with some introspection but it's clear nothing gets through and you just hear an echo in your head.

 

[Porygon]

"The DualSense is the most next-gen thing so far! It's amazing!"

"Nah, I'm gonna turn that shit off anyways. Fuck that shit, lemme buy more DS4's."

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Read the thread

There are really valid complaints about this, one of them being accessibility options

 

[Deleted member 51539]

Here before Sony patches out ds4 support for remote play because of this thread

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They would have to patch out the entirety of the Remote Play app because the DS4 is the only controller that works for it

 

[2shd]

This forum exists in a room where everyone just hears their own echoes.

This entire post just proves my point and is presented as some kind of counter argument instead.

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The post was meant to show how silly it is to toss around the "during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC" stinger to try to shut down discussions. It seems we agree on that then.

Again in the broader scope this is effectively a software block/policy decision, and not something involving extraordinary expectations that warrant that sort of hyperbole.

 

[Lunchbox]

I'm mostly playing 4 games so it's nice to have two controllers for now, I get it for PS5 games because honestly I want devs for single player games to use the haptic triggers more.

 

[Walnut]

I should be able to use my DualShock 4's on PS4 BC games

It's really silly that you can't

 

[Darknight]

Sackboy - For the very rare occasion my wife shows interest in playing co-op I already have a bunch of DS4s she could use but nope, we can't play co-op unless I fork out $70 for another DualSense. It's not worth it to me at this point for the amount of time we'd use it, so we'll probably never play Sackboy together.

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Yep! This is the reason I went with the PS4 version and I'm happy that the PS5 allows both the PS4 and PS5 version to coexist on the machine. It would have been perfect if the save data was bidirectional but unfortunately it's not. So on my PS5, I load the PS5 version when I'm playing alone and then I run the PS4 version when more people want to play. It sucks, but damn it beats shelling out $70 per controller to do something that I should be able to do with my existing controllers for a game like this where it would be perfectly fine on a DS4.

 

[MaulerX]

Say a game requires the use of haptic feedback - what then?

Every decision you disagree with doesn't need to be a money-making scheme by Sony. It's been this way for a while and it makes even more sense with the DS.

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You have the option to turn off haptic feedback. The Dual Sense will work exactly as the DS4 and vice versa when you do.

 

[KanameYuuki]

Say a game requires the use of haptic feedback - what then?

Every decision you disagree with doesn't need to be a money-making scheme by Sony. It's been this way for a while and it makes even more sense with the DS.

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Lol, it is nothing more but a decision made so sony sells more dualsense, and in the rare case that a game is simply so unplayable, broken and even crashes because it must need a dualsense the devs can simple put a message saying "use the new premium controller you fool." much like some games on Switch need Joycons, you don't see anyone compaining they can't play the jump rope game or Ring Fit with their pro controllers.

 

[btkadams]

I should be able to use my DualShock 4's on PS4 BC games

It's really silly that you can't

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Huh? You absolutely can do this. I use a PS4 controller for apex legends on PS5.

 

[Darknight]

Are people here talking about using a PS4 controller on the computer remote play app? If so you cannot compare it. The controller connected to the PC is just sending inputs it sends to the PS5, same as if you played with a keyboard or third party controller.

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Why can't you compare it? It shows that the games are perfectly playable with a DS4. Otherwise, why allow Remote Play to exist if you don't have a proper controller to use during Remote Play?

 

[Deleted member 46493]

Why can't you compare it? It shows that the games are perfectly playable with a DS4. Otherwise, why allow Remote Play to exist if you don't have a proper controller to use during Remote Play?

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Unless I am 100% wrong, the PS5 doesn't know or care what controller is being used via remote play. All it cares about is the signals Remote Play sends it, which are captured from the computer via keyboard or any controller. That said I do agree with the thesis of the thread that PS4 controllers should still work.

 

[MnM]

Fuck Sony and their shillers.

 

[Alek]

I wouldn't even be mad if they had released a Pro version of their controller. Like if they want us to move to their new pad with the new system, fine, but that pad better be objectively better or on par with my current setup.

For a competitive player the Dual Sense offers nothing interesting and some features even feel a little bit worse. The dpad doesn't feel as responsive for fighting games, the controller feels a little bit harder to claw, and the face button presses feel less 'definitive' (more squishy less clicky) than the DS4.

While being touted for its new haptics and whatnot, Sony need to realise that they're leaving a lot of people behind. Microsoft are offering an elite controller, one of my friends picked up an X1X because of the controller, and that's the type of mindset that competitive players have. I don't know why Sony ignore this stuff. I get that not everyone wants paddles, but the market is clearly big enough that they should care when Microsoft's pro controller offering is clearly popular.

Heck, there are like 7 different brands of competing pro controller on PS4, but Sony almost act as if this market doesn't exist.

 

[Trisc]

As it should be.

Developers should expect you to have the DS features when playing their games.

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Which ones, the better rumble motors that I turn off, or annoying adaptive trigger motors that I turn off?

 

[Deleted member 11370]

Funny enough I was totally able to play through Astros Playroom with a DS4 on remote play. The DualSense Features are NEVER required. Unless you are specifically sending morse code to the player through haptics or something stupid like that they WILL NEVER be required.

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Sure. When I said "required", I meant "they add something to the experience beyond the simple physical feedback of the enhanced haptics" :P

I could see a game like MGS3 using the pressure-sensitive features of the DualSense, but, right now, there's nothing that wouldn't work with a DS4. I'd love to use my Nacon Revolution 2 with those amazing back buttons and programmable schemes with PS5 games.

Say a game requires the use of haptic feedback - what then?

Every decision you disagree with doesn't need to be a money-making scheme by Sony. It's been this way for a while and it makes even more sense with the DS.

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In that case, make it so you have to use a DualSense for that specific game. Right now there are no games like that, AFAIK. You can even turn off everything that makes the DualSense different from the DS4 at a system-wide level! There's absolutely no reason why Sony should prevent a PS4 controller from being used with a PS5 game at the moment, solely based on a possible future scenario that would affect a very specific game.

 

[Darknight]

Unless I am 100% wrong, the PS5 doesn't know or care what controller is being used via remote play. All it cares about is the signals Remote Play sends it, which are captured from the computer via keyboard or any controller. That said I do agree with the thesis of the thread that PS4 controllers should still work.

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Ya, that much is true which is how it gets around the issue of the PS5 blocking DS4s but when it comes down to it, how it handles it doesn't really matter when the end result works so it seems like we agree with the bottom line.

 

[Scottoest]

There's no reason for it, beyond Sony artificially limiting DS4 compatibility to ensure people "have" to use the DualSense - and thus devs also getting to rely on that assumption. So they both can force people to buy new controllers, and can ensure there's an installed base for the new technology in the controller.

If you're fine with that arrangement, then fair enough. But those are literally the only reasons, and they are far from self-evidently good ones. The second reason is also the same reason Microsoft opted to pack in the Kinect 2.0 with the Xbox One - to "force" an installed base so that devs had a good reason to explore Kinect features in their games.

You can disable DualSense features at the system level. There's literally no mechanical reason you'd have to use one.

 

[Perfectsil]

Yeah it's silly to play local madden multiplayer I can't use the PS4 controller I have but remote play works just fine

 

[Traxus]

Excuse me have you read this thread? Saying that Sony not supporting the DS4 has nothing to do with accessibility is flat out the most tone deaf possible conclusion you could draw from this thread by page 3. I'm a predominantly Sony player, so how is it "idiotic console war bullshit" to FACTUALLY state arbitrarily gatekeeping hardware includes gatekeeping disabled gamers that had to buy specialized equipment, modded controllers that can be extremely cost prohibitive? PLEASE, do go on about how TLOU2 made it so a one handed gamer can play the latest Call of Duty on PS5, I'm extremely interested in hearing about it.

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For sure! That's a very good point. I just overreacted seeing a bunch of posters jumping in with console war drivebys.

 

[mute]

Seems like a flimsy excuse, there is at least one dual sense out there for every PS5 game being played.

If P2 people want fancy features they still will go out and buy one, no reason to lock out DS4s entirely.

 

[jak153]

Yes it's bs and I don't understand the "splitting the user base" argument when it comes with a dualsense and using the DS4 from what I've seen is people like me that want to play the PS5 version of sackboy which is crossgen yet for some reason cant use the DS4 for coop. Atleast the remote play workaround works but I can't seem to use more than 1 dualshock. Not like the dualsense features are that mind blowing anyway in that game to lock out the DS4.

When I only had 1 DS4 I actually used the same workaround using the PSTV to use 2 DS3s for BO3 and they worked just fine. There's no viable reason to lock out the DS4 and I hope atleast and adapter comes out from a third party.

 

[Dolce]

Unless I am 100% wrong, the PS5 doesn't know or care what controller is being used via remote play. All it cares about is the signals Remote Play sends it, which are captured from the computer via keyboard or any controller. That said I do agree with the thesis of the thread that PS4 controllers should still work.

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The thing is, PlayStation 5 games CAN support PlayStation 4 controllers and input. It's why a lot of peripherals from the PS4 are still compatible on the PS5.

 

[Vilam]

I need DS4 for PS5 games until Sony releases a back button attachment for the DualSense (and they fucking better.)

 

[Traxus]

I need DS4 for PS5 games until Sony releases a back button attachment for the DualSense (and they fucking better.)

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I feel like there are only twelve of us who actually got a back-button attachment but yes, absolutely. Having to claw grip in Demon's Souls to run and control the camera or jump in Destiny 2 feels so silly after having back buttons on my DS4 for the past year. 😭

Yep! This is the reason I went with the PS4 version and I'm happy that the PS5 allows both the PS4 and PS5 version to coexist on the machine. It would have been perfect if the save data was bidirectional but unfortunately it's not. So on my PS5, I load the PS5 version when I'm playing alone and then I run the PS4 version when more people want to play. It sucks, but damn it beats shelling out $70 per controller to do something that I should be able to do with my existing controllers for a game like this where it would be perfectly fine on a DS4.

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Yeah, I'll probably do the same. So silly we have to install two versions of the same game to play with our families, or go out and buy a whole new set of controllers.

Honestly, I likely wouldn't have a problem if this were the case a year down the line, but the artificial obsolescence of my DS4s in crossgen games when the DualSense costs $70 a pop is just a bit much.

 

[Lindsay]

Wait, you can disable the PS5 controllers gimmicks? Which then leaves you with... a bigger, heavier controller? No thanks! I dun got a PS5 but whenever I get around ta doing so I'd really, really wanna use my DS4s instead!

 

[Walnut]

Huh? You absolutely can do this. I use a PS4 controller for apex legends on PS5.

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I thought you couldn't

I have no complaints now lol

 

[Shoshi]

The environmental impact of all plastic from DS4 going to waste is really concerning for me.

We need a petition on Change.org for "Full DualShock 4 support for PS5" mentioning the various Environmental- and Accessibility aspects.

 

[Traxus]

I thought you couldn't

I have no complaints now lol

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PS4 games that run in Backwards Compatibility mode work just fine with DS4s.

The complaints here have mainly to do with PS4 games that have had official PS5 upgrades resulting in a totally separate "PS5 Version" install.

eg. Destiny, Sackboy, CoD, sports titles like FIFA and Madden, and other crossgen games.

In these cases, the PS4 version works with DS4 controllers while the PS5 version arbitrarily does not.

Which gets even weirder when you consider PS4 games like Days Gone and Ghosts of Tsushima that have received patches to run at 4k with unlocked framerates on PS5 and essentially run like next-gen games, are still running on their old PS4 sku and are thus compatible with DS4 controllers. 🤔 😕

 

[Vilam]

I feel like there are only twelve of us who actually got a back-button attachment but yes, absolutely.

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Only because they manufactured so few of them. Seemed like the demand for the back button attachment was sky high - people were paying big markups in the reseller market for them.

 

[SenseiX]

Don't think that's true. It would be hard to do with Dualshock 4, what Housemarque's doing with Dualsense for example.
"By using the Adaptive Trigger players can move seamlessly between aiming down sights and activating Alt-Fire: Squeeze it halfway down to aim down the iron sights; squeeze it all the way down to activate your rechargeable Alt-Fire attack. Switching between modes on a single trigger will become second nature in no time."

I could imagine there are more things that developers can think of, that can only be done with Dualsense.

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What makes it a DualSense only thing? This should be doable on every controller with analog triggers no?

 

[LSauchelli]

Can you even use DS4 for PS4 games?

 

[Darknight]

Can you even use DS4 for PS4 games?

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Yes.

 

[OGM_Madness]

Why don't you just play the PS4 version of Sackboy?

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because frames, resolution, graphics, loading time?... why buy a PS5 then? -,-

no one is going to buy a PS5 to play PS4 versions of PS5 games

 

[Dunlop]

What has Microsoft done with the Xbox that you view as anti consumer.

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I'm predicting you will not get a response to this.

I didn't realize you could turn off the DS featured at the OS level, so it really it just a monetary reason to get people to purchase peripherals and not a technical one.

Pretty crappy for the consumer, smart business wise