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PS5 System Message: "PS5 Games can't be played with the DS4"...but Sony Remote Play App doesn't care and it works fine?
- Thread starter TitanicFall
- Start date
Yes it's great for single player and a nightmare for multiplayer.
Wait really? So if you have old controllers they work on the new systems? That's crazy
I feel like this is the answer.
If use of the DualSense was not mandatory, I feel like devs would be less likely to include its features in their games. Now, devs can advertise DualSense features in their games, and expect that nearly everyone who plays will actually get those features.
For those users who dislike this policy: you can blame Sony's desire to introduce new features into their controllers literally every generation. Is it unreasonable for them to want devs and users to take advantage of said new features? Considering the volume of new features offered, I wouldn't call this unreasonable or anti-consumer.
Microsoft, on the other hand, did not reinvent the wheel, which is why XB1 controllers and XS controllers are 100% interchangeable. It's a decision that some call "consumer friendly" but I think that's just a side benefit. On the other hand, Xbox doesn't get any of those new features. There are pros and cons to every approach.
Not all that crazy when you consider that they're almost functionally identical. The only new button added to the SX controller is the Share button. If you lack that button, there are other ways to access the functionality.
Also, the SX controller works on the XB1. I grabbed one to use with my XB1X.
Did you know that the Series S/X also run the exact same OS as the XB1?
Yeah, I would imagine this is the case. The higher margins on these peripherals can allow them to offset loses they take on the consoles. Also, retail partners make far more money selling controllers than they do consoles or games. I'm sure its far more complicated than Sony being greedy.
You also wouldn't miss any mandatory feature by playing the PS4 version of the game (included, if you buy CoD for PS5) and you would have Dualshock 4 support.
I get why Sony wants mandatory Dualsense support with PS5 games. And at least part of it is, that it's features will hopefully be used more frequently by developers.
Developers won't have to worry, if every player has a dualsense and can use certain features.
I hope there will be more advantages to this strategy in the long run, but we'll see.
So, what happens when the PS5 gets third party controllers that do not have those features? Is the PS5 going to be the first system to not allow third party controllers in forever?
Third party controllers drop a lot of features to come out cheaper.
Everything the DualSense does that's unique can be turned off. That means functionally it's the same as a DS4.
Imagine having limited control in your hands or fingers, or having a controller designed to be used with your feet or mouth, or a one handed controller designed to take advantage of only having one hand, or any of a myriad of issues. Imagine spending vastly more than other gamers because you've been dealt a disadvantage to the mass market, because you're passionate enough about this hobby we share that you will invest even more than the average person to enjoy it.
Then imagine your community arguing that you should have to buy or mod a new one, because optional features in a new controller is more worthwhile than support for legacy hardware which is literally already being supported on the system but is gated off for no other purpose than to ensure propert spend more money.
Imagine these people in your community saying you're entitled.
This makes sense on paper, but people made the same argument for the DS3 not working on PS4. How many PS4 games required the use of DS4-only features? Maybe around launch, but it was completely optional features (that you could argue are under-utilized) that the DS3 could've worked fine around.
Funny note about that, I wonder how many people have forgotten the Wii, Wii U and Switch all support Gamecube controllers. It's kinda crazy the effort put into that one controller.
As pointed out the controller already works through remote play.
Besides I would have no issue if it was the default controller and developers had the option to add DS4 support themselves. But they don't. Sony has purposefully blocked it because they don't want it as an option for PS5 games. Consoles like the PS3 completely changed inputs. In this case we know the controller connects fine.
The thing that really makes this stupid is that it makes PSVR games on PS5 an issue and has lead to people needing to download both a PS5 and PS4 version for both modes.
yep but at the same time, once I had used the new series controller, I couldn't go back. it's nice as an option for friends/family though
also the old xbox one pc controller adapter still works, no need for a new one there either. now i'm curious if a wired 360 controller works on the series
What if a user turns off these features on the system level? Won't the game handle it?
No I didn't. Never had an Xbox before but looking to pick an S up if they ever go back in stock
This is actually one of the handful of reasons I switched up from Playstation to Xbox this time around.
Xbox is doing a lot of things right this time and are very pro consumer. Whereas Sony seems like they are doing whatever they feel like because they are the market leaders, and it is has been a little too reminiscent of PS3 era in my opinion.
Xbox is doing a lot of things right this time and are very pro consumer. Whereas Sony seems like they are doing whatever they feel like because they are the market leaders, and it is has been a little too reminiscent of PS3 era in my opinion.
They are not required though as you can turn it off at the system level which makes the dual sense fall into the domain of DS4 with different ergonomics.
I imagine this is part of the reasoning, but for current crossgen games it's really not worth the tradeoff and just results in frustration when players are arbitrarily locked out from using their DS4s to play local multiplayer with friends, and can no longer take advantage of the DS4 back-button attachment that Sony released less than a year ago.
Destiny 2 just released with a PS5 patch that provides literally zero haptic or adaptive trigger enhancements but it still locks players out from using DS4s and third party controllers.
Your going to give up Sony exclusives just because you can't use ds4?
What does this mean? Aside from the optional Dualsense features you can turn off at a system level, the controllers do exactly the same thing.
Not everyone cares about Sony first party (PlayStation is my "main" system over XBOX and I never play first party stuff) and they might not care about third party exclusives when most games are crossplatform.
This is silly. Devs can be certain that every PS5 owner owns a Dualsense and that should be enough for them to utilize features. It would make no difference at all if they also allowed DS4s.
I rather the focus be the DS, its likely easy to have support for DS4, since the XSX controller is similar to it. But I still want the focus to be on the DS, so there is less excuses when a dev doesn't support the DS features. Now if a game doesn't need or benefit from the DS, then fair enough, no need to support something that will only make the experience worse. But yeah I want no part of the DS4 to be used with PS5.
Microsoft does it. All these controllers people have bought over the past long while are still useful.
Can you still use non-Sony controllers (xbox, kishi, etc) when streaming from PS5 to an IOS device? That part was always interesting since streaming to other clients like Android and Windows forces you to use a Sony controller.
Cross gen COD ... I'm sure next year's will have proper support.
That's strange I don't know any multiplatform games better than sonys exclusives, you should try some more sometime
You can turn the features off at the OS level. None of the developer utilization focused arguments hold any water given that fact. There's no functional difference between letting people avoid the features through software settings or a hardware choice.
It is purely about selling Dualsenses, which is fair enough but I don't want to hear flimsy excuses about it.
I guess that's one major benefit to PC gaming. You can choose your input device. Your old keyboard and mouse don't become useless when you get a 3080 lol
I would assume those games have alternative control schemes built-in that rely on things like analog sticks, simultaneous button presses, etc, to "fill the gaps" when it's disabled.
At the end of the day, enabling the DS4 on the PS5 only hurts the DualSense experience, because it splinters the userbase. Not everything needs to be forwards compatible, and not everything needs to be backwards compatible. Obviously, given the tone of this thread at present, I'm not going to be on the "winning side" of the consensus here, and that's fine.
I'd much prefer the DS4 not be compatible with PS5 games to ensure more widespread adoption of the DualSense feature set. I don't buy that this is an "anti-consumer" practice, but I do acknowledge that it could potentially hinder those with disabilities who would prefer to use a DS4 for accessibility reasons. Even on that front, however, I'm more bothered that Sony hasn't invested any money into accessibility focused user input devices, where as Microsoft is absolutely killing it in that regard.
Anyway, I'm sure I'll get plenty of quotes after this so I'll go ahead and say it: I'm not interested in continued discussion just so someone can prove themselves "right" or me "wrong". If that's your goal, please don't expect a reply from me.
Yeah, no
A DS4 is a DualSense, but without haptics, that's it. Heck, if you go to the the ps5 settings and turn off the haptics, you're basically holding a DS4. Games should be able to support both because there's nothing to it. If I play horizon with a DS4 I'm aware that if I hold R2 I won't feel a resistance..... But that's fine, if I do use DS for it, I'll feel said resistance, but there's nothing fundamental that ds does that DS4 cannot
Most game systems evolve is what I am saying and most consumers just assume they will need to buy new hardware. This is the history with Sega, Nintendo and now Sony. Microsoft seems to be the only one who offers full BC which is great but again I think most of us who have been around just expect to buy new controllers. Speaking of ability, what does the PS5 controller not do that the PS4 controller does?
PSVR does make it more complicated, so yes you are right about that. I now concede, there is no need to purposely block it.
I gave up on Sony exclusives because of some of the anti consumer practices they have been doing lately, such as the topic of this thread, having a paid upgrade to a 2018 game in Spiderman Remastered, lacking backward compatibility support for PS4 games on PS5, completely ignoring some of their legacy platforms even existed, the increased PS5 game prices... theres more but those stick out.
People are free to stick by whichever console they like! But as I had said, I really like what Microsoft has been doing in the last few years after their disappointing Xbox One early years, and Game Pass is an industry revelation.
We now live in a fictional crazy world where people call Microsoft, MICROSOFT, pro consumer lol. Fucking hell.
Anyways yeah it's hard to argue with the DS4 not being allowed when it comes to disabilities. That's just fucked up.
At first I was like, why on Earth would anyone want to play with the DS4 when the DualSense is twice the controller.....but yeah, in my head I'd completely forgotten specialized controllers.
And also because it won't render my old DS4 controller useless for MP games and couch coop games
Plus it works with remote play, it's really silly, it already works lol they just want you to buy extra ds controllers just because, for $
Sony doesn't tend to make games I'm super interested in, especially not anymore. I liked Wipeout but they killed Studio Liverpool a decade ago. The combat in games like GOW or TLOU isn't really interesting to me and I'd rather play different action games. It's not that I think "wow these games are trash", but I'm not spending money or time on playing them.
In MS case, they didn't update their controller other than add a share button and misc revision. There is a reason some gamers are asking for a "refreshed" xbox controller to mimic DS feature set because DS does bring new functionality to the table.
If Sony would allow DS4 for all games, it would defeate the r&d investment to their new controller pad. Sony may as well just release a Dual Shock 5 with a new set of paint and charged you $70. Im sure they wouldn't have faced criticism there by the community. I am sure....
I mean sure, for a year until all of your friends also have PS5s and controllers and you'll have left the old controllers in the dust.
It's an inconvenience, I guess, but pretty soon DualSense controllers will be as common as the DS4. It just seems like a pretty minor deal. Every person who bought a PS5 that I know in real life also bought an extra controller for charging purposes.
Like I said I have no problem with them allowing DS4's, I honestly couldn't care less as it has no negative impact on my playing. It just seems like a pretty minor thing to throw a fit about at the end of the day.
The PS4 version supports Dualshock 4. You won't miss anything because there are no mandatory PS5 features right?
The PS5 version might look better and load faster but that's not mandatory.
Like with the dualsense - might feel better and has different feedback for weapons but it's not mandatory.
The XBOX Series controller has different ergonomics, is smaller (which allows more people to actually comfortably use it) and updated the d-pad on top of other things. It's also not 70 dollars, but 60 dollars.
And as I asked earlier in this thread: how are third party controllers going to be treated? Is Hori going to be allowed to make Horipad style controllers? Can third parties drop features? What about fightsticks? What about racing wheels?
I mean in general capitalistic companies are by nature greedy (their only aim is to generate profit and value for their shareholders). However, in this case they have to recoup the loss on the hardware and make profits through software, services, and peripherals or less the entire model of selling hardware at a loss would not make sense (the cheap hardware in a way is a subsidized gateway into a money making ecosystem).
Um, I remote play with my DualSense all the time though.
Locking out DS4s is not cool at all.
Did 3rd party PS4 controllers have touchpads or lightbars? Not being sarcastic, I honestly have no idea.
I don't have any research to back this speculation up, but I am speculating that the vast majority of console gamers never tinker with features, beyond what they absolutely have to do to make it work or free up storage space. This would put those arguments back on the table.
oh I know its very simple for sony and devs to support the DS4. I just want the main support to be the DS, otherwise it may become an afterthought.