PS5 System Message: "PS5 Games can't be played with the DS4"...but Sony Remote Play App doesn't care and it works fine?

[TitanicFall]

This is a bit annoying. I think the DualSense controller is fine. I like the extra features it has, but I do find that the DS4 fits my hands better and I personally like a controller that is lighter in weight. It would be great to be able to natively switch over to the DS4 for some games, but the system won't allow it. However use Sony's remote play app and DS4 or DualSense, it doesn't matter. It works. So Sony seems to be arbitrarily imposing this restriction.

Sony, please give us the option to use the DS4 natively with all PS5 games, or at least leave it up to the devs on a case by case basis.

 

[jwk94]

Yeah it's dumb. They're trying to sell ds5s, and get devs to adopt the controller's features. If they limit console play to ds5s that guarantees to devs that their player base is at least using the same controller with the same features.

 

[zma1013]

Also, you can completely turn off the lightbar on their PS4 controller on PC but not on their console. Why? I don't know.

 

[TheGhost]

It's for money reasons only. There is nothing your dual sense can do that your dual shock can't do when it comes to movement and playing the actual game.

the sticks work the same, the buttons are the same, there are no new extra buttons. Just people with expensive Third party DS4 controllers wanting to connect and play their ps5 games with them.

 

[DieH@rd]

They are keeping the ecosystem stable for PS5 developers so that they can safely focus on unique DS features for each game. So they know that every PS5 user will interact with their game with one type of a gamepad.

Remote Play DS4 compatibility is a optional benefit.

 

[Le Dude]

I remember people clamoring about how it would be necessary for some games, but can't you turn off the features at a system level?

The limit to Dualsense is purely so they can sell more controllers, and it's a dissappointing decision.

It's particularly dissappointing because there's some people who have custom modified Dualshock 4's due to disabilities and to move to PS5 they will have to go through the process of modifying a new controller.

It's also wasteful because there's so many Dualshock 4 controllers out there that now can't be reused for the new console. That's what? Hundreds of millions of pieces of plastic that can't be reused on the new console purely to drive profits?

I wish people would make a bigger deal of it so Sony would cave and add support. It's an indefensible position IMO.

 

[defaltoption]

I wouldn't personally use the 4 as I do prefer the new one but the fact that the option isn't there for those who do want it is ridiculous. Especially since the dualsense is nothing new in terms of actual control and honestly while I enjoy the other features a lot they're not some gaming revolution they're nice to have upgrades.

It's not like the ps5 doesn't still come with a new controller or as though everyone will use the ds4 instead. The features have the same chance of being supported regardless.

 

[vrcsix]

If they limit console play to ds5s that guarantees to devs that their player base is at least using the same controller with the same features.

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The vast majority were always going use the controller that came with the console. This is purely about getting that money from people buying second and third DualSense controllers for friends and family. Sony have not changed the core concept of their controllers since 1997. That none of the Bluetooth ones and especially the DS4 are compatible is just purely anti-consumer and anti-environmental.

I'm not sure why some want PS4 controller support on the PS5 system if the system comes with a PS5 controller? Devs should not have to worry about adopting or supporting last gen controllers for PS5 titles.

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To not have to run out and spend over $200 on DualSense controllers to invite some friends over for local multiplayer, when the group likely can gather a couple of DS4s easily? And it would be a pretty shitty SDK if developers explicitly had to target a particular controller model for things like button presses when the DS4, apart from the haptics and other non-essential stuff, is basically the same controller.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I wish people would make a bigger deal of it so Sony would cave and add support. It's an indefensible position IMO.

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Agree but Sony won't care unless they lose sales over it. MS have back compat on their controllers and I've seen only a few posters saying they're going xbox over ps5 due to its back compat games stance, and none that say they are doing it over controllers.

It's an annoyance but one that barely changes purchasing decisions so they just carry on. New features and requiring new controllers are all part of believing in generations, I guess.

 

[btkadams]

The most annoying part for me is I've grown so used to using my Astro c40 in shooters because of the back paddle buttons. I can't use it in cod or destiny because they are native games now, but if I install the PS4 versions of those same games on PS5 I can use the Astro controller.

 

[TitanicFall]

They are keeping the ecosystem stable for PS5 developers so that they can safely focus on unique DS features for each game. So they know that every PS5 user will interact with their game with one type of a gamepad.

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Every PS5 sold has a DS controller packed in, so having the option to use a different one doesn't change that. Also what difference does it make when you can turn all that off anyway?

 

[Deleted member 51539]

Yeah, it's bullshit and they know it.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I agree. DS4 feels better in my hands, and would prefer to use it in games where haptics/adaptive trigger aren't needed (or people want to turn them off and not use those features).

I get it right, they want to sell DS5s and have a baseline for devs. But for the devs, each ps5 comes with one. They are guaranteed to have 1.

I think it's bullshit personally. I haven't upgraded my MK11 copy to the ps5 version, as I would rather use the DS4 to play.

I'm playing all my BC PS4 games with a DS4. The DualSense is just collecting dust besides astrobot, haha.

 

[Night]

As it should be.

Developers should expect you to have the DS features when playing their games.

 

[KanameYuuki]

I remember an old threat with people defending that decision from sony that it was all in the name of innovation and how not having the dualsense features would basically break games on ps5. It would be nice if they let us use DS4 at least as 2nd / 3rd controllers.

 

[Iron Eddie]

The PS4 controller should work for all PS4 games through BC on the PS5. The PS5 controller should only be playable on PS5 games. I'm not sure why some want PS4 controller support on the PS5 system if the system comes with a PS5 controller? Devs should not have to worry about adopting or supporting last gen controllers for PS5 titles.

 

[DerMarc]

It's for money reasons only. There is nothing your dual sense can do that your dual shock can't do when it comes to movement and playing the actual game.

the sticks work the same, the buttons are the same, there are no new extra buttons. Just people with expensive Third party DS4 controllers wanting to connect and play their ps5 games with them.

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Don't think that's true. It would be hard to do with Dualshock 4, what Housemarque's doing with Dualsense for example.
"By using the Adaptive Trigger players can move seamlessly between aiming down sights and activating Alt-Fire: Squeeze it halfway down to aim down the iron sights; squeeze it all the way down to activate your rechargeable Alt-Fire attack. Switching between modes on a single trigger will become second nature in no time."

I could imagine there are more things that developers can think of, that can only be done with Dualsense.

 

[Deleted member 51539]

The PS4 controller should work for all PS4 games through BC on the PS5. The PS5 controller should only be playable on PS5 games. I'm not sure why some want PS4 controller support on the PS5 system if the system comes with a PS5 controller? Devs should not have to worry about adopting or supporting last gen controllers for PS5 titles.

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Did this pandemic go on for so long that people forgot local multiplayer exists?

 

[Vexii]

The PS4 controller should work for all PS4 games through BC on the PS5. The PS5 controller should only be playable on PS5 games. I'm not sure why some want PS4 controller support on the PS5 system if the system comes with a PS5 controller? Devs should not have to worry about adopting or supporting last gen controllers for PS5 titles.

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It literally does work for PS5 games without dev input through remote play though. Or did you just come in here with your high-horse because you're bored?

 

[Nif]

Don't think that's true. It would be hard to do with Dualshock 4, what Housemarque's doing with Dualsense for example.
"By using the Adaptive Trigger players can move seamlessly between aiming down sights and activating Alt-Fire: Squeeze it halfway down to aim down the iron sights; squeeze it all the way down to activate your rechargeable Alt-Fire attack. Switching between modes on a single trigger will become second nature in no time."

I could imagine there are more things that developers can think of, that can only be done with Dualsense.

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I guess the game will be impossible to play for those of us who've disabled the adaptive triggers.

 

[DCBA]

Pretty stupid that I have to install the PS4 version to play Fifa and CoD locally with my friends in the future.

 

[TitanicFall]

The PS4 controller should work for all PS4 games through BC on the PS5. The PS5 controller should only be playable on PS5 games. I'm not sure why some want PS4 controller support on the PS5 system if the system comes with a PS5 controller? Devs should not have to worry about adopting or supporting last gen controllers for PS5 titles.

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What's the difference between a DualSense and a DS4 when you go into the system or game settings and turn those features off? So what exactly is going to be the hardship on devs?

 

[SteviaRelievingYa]

Completely scummy. I'm happy to have 4 working Xbox one controllers in addition to the Series X controller that came with the console.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

Just my gut feeling but I can see them patching in DS4 support in the future once Dual Sense features become a standard.

 

[Edward850]

Devs should not have to worry about adopting or supporting last gen controllers for PS5 titles.

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Shouldn't we? I would have no problem with adding support for two slightly different controllers, given I already have to do that across different platforms.

And it can lead to some rather inventive solutions, such as the vibration renderer we made to handle the Switch's HD rumble and regular rumble motors on other platforms using the same set of files.

 

[formasymphonic]

As it should be.

Developers should expect you to have the DS features when playing their games.

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The guarantee that the play should be playing with a DS5 as standard likely helps with adoption of DualSense feature support so I'm inclined to agree with this.

 

[TheGhost]

Don't think that's true. It would be hard to do with Dualshock 4, what Housemarque's doing with Dualsense for example.
"By using the Adaptive Trigger players can move seamlessly between aiming down sights and activating Alt-Fire: Squeeze it halfway down to aim down the iron sights; squeeze it all the way down to activate your rechargeable Alt-Fire attack. Switching between modes on a single trigger will become second nature in no time."

I could imagine there are more things that developers can think of, that can only be done with Dualsense.

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What is COD doing that requires a dual sense? Since that's what the major third party controllers sell to that crowd.

 

[Jakenbakin]

Yeah when I tried out remote play and it was like "connect your dual shock 4" I was like wait what the fuck. It's bullshit and they know it, and the way it fucked over numerous gamers with disabilities that have invested into ways to play is beyond reprehensible. It literally targets a group of people that already have to invest more (not to Sony, of course, they don't care) and tells them to figure their own shit out all over again.

 

[Iron Eddie]

The vast majority were always going use the controller that came with the console. This is purely about getting that money from people buying second and third DualSense controllers for friends and family. Sony have not changed the core concept of their controllers since 1997. That none of the Bluetooth ones and especially the DS4 are compatible is just purely anti-consumer and anti-environmental.

To not have to run out and spend over $200 on DualSense controllers to invite some friends over for local multiplayer, when the group likely can gather a couple of DS4s easily? And it would be a pretty shitty SDK if developers explicitly had to target a particular controller model for things like button presses. Apart from the haptics and other non-essential stuff, it's basically the same controller.

Click to shrink...

Shouldn't we? I would have no problem with adding support for two slightly different controllers, given I already have to do that across different platforms.

And it can lead to some rather inventive solutions, such as the vibration renderer we have to handle the Switch's HD rumble and regular rumble motors on other platforms using the same set of files.

Click to shrink...

What's the difference between a DualSense and a DS4 when you go into the system or game settings and turn those features off? So what exactly is going to be the hardship on devs?

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OK, let me ask because maybe I am looking at it wrong. When people bought the PS4, could you use the PS3 controller for all games? How about when people bought the PS3, could you use the PS2 controller for all games?

 

[DerMarc]

What is COD doing that requires a dual sense? Since that's what the major third party controllers sell to that crowd.

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Let's see what they will do in the future. For now they aren't doing anything, that requires a PS5 as far as I know.

 

[L.O.R.D]

maybe there is no driver to support DS4 on PS5, yet.
this is the most reasonable thing i can think right now.

 

[platocplx]

Doesn't remote play not support anything rumble etc? that's the reason why it works there is nothing but straight playing with a pad.

 

[Edward850]

OK, let me ask because maybe I am looking at it wrong. When people bought the PS4, could you use the PS3 controller for all games? How about when people bought the PS3, could you use the PS2 controller for all games?

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The PS2 could have PS2 games optionally support the PS1 controller, it was up to the developer.

 

[8byte]

It's for money reasons only. There is nothing your dual sense can do that your dual shock can't do when it comes to movement and playing the actual game.

the sticks work the same, the buttons are the same, there are no new extra buttons. Just people with expensive Third party DS4 controllers wanting to connect and play their ps5 games with them.

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False. Some games have a half press for the triggers that would be incredibly hard to accurately execute on a DS4 without the resistance in the triggers.

 

[Iron Eddie]

The PS2 could have PS2 games optionally support the PS1 controller, it was up to the developer.

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OK, what about on the PS3 and PS4?

 

[Exposure]

False. Some games have a half press for the triggers that would be incredibly hard to accurately execute on a DS4 without the resistance in the triggers.

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Question:

What happens when you play these games on a PS5 that has haptic feedback and/or adaptive triggers turned off at the system level?

 

[TheGhost]

Let's see what they will do in the future. For now they aren't doing anything, that requires a PS5 as far as I know.

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Exactly, so instead of mandatory use of the dual sense, the additional features should be optional.

 

[Edward850]

OK, what about on the PS3 and PS4?

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What about them? Just because they did or didn't do something, that shouldn't be the end all of your opinion now. There's no hard and fast rule about these things, especially when the technology is there to achieve it.

 

[Patitoloco]

What is COD doing that requires a dual sense? Since that's what the major third party controllers sell to that crowd.

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Not 100% on topic, but I wanted to point out that Black Ops Cold War might have one of the coolest usages of the triggers I've tried, as they weight more to aim the bigger the gun, and bounce with automatic firing, for example. That + the rumble, which is really well tuned, makes it super good to play, and single handling salvages the downgrade in gunplay from Modern Warfare.

 

[reclaimerzzzzz]

maybe there is no driver to support DS4 on PS5, yet.
this is the most reasonable thing i can think right now.

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That's not it, you can play PS4 games on the PS5 with the DS4. The answer is Sony doesn't want to support the DS4 on PS5 games.

 

[J-Soul]

For the people saying that the point is to guarantee Dualsense features for the developers... why does remote play allow you to use a DS4 then? Is remote play not "valid" in some way? Why is it allowed to subvert the rules?

 

[oni-link]

Yeah it's annoying

Is this also an issue with Xbox?

I assume One controllers don't work with Series consoles, right?

 

[Sonicfan1373]

I think part of it is because they are selling the system at a loss and trying to recoup costs through DS5 sales (like how they did so with the Vita, where they used proprietary memory cards instead of SD). The other part is that they are trying to push developers to use things like adaptive triggers and the unique vibration features; though since they are giving 1 controller per system that really shouldn't be an issue.

 

[TitanicFall]

OK, let me ask because maybe I am looking at it wrong. When people bought the PS4, could you use the PS3 controller for all games? How about when people bought the PS3, could you use the PS2 controller for all games?

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Well there is a functional difference between a PS3 and PS4 controller. PS4 added a touchpad and lightbar, mostly for VR. You couldn't replicate that functionality on a PS3 controller. Also PS4 didn't support PS3 games anyway, so it would have been pointless to add that support in the first place.

PS2 to PS3 was a switch from wired to wireless, and adding gyro functions, and analog triggers. You couldn't replicate that on a PS2 controller.

PS4 and PS5 controllers functionally have all the same input controls. The extra features the PS5 controller does have, can be turned off, making it the same as the PS4 controller.

 

[Iron Eddie]

What about them? Just because they did or didn't do something, that shouldn't be the end all of your opinion now. There's no hard and fast rule about these things, especially when the technology is there to achieve it.

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I am all about options but I think some people are really heading into entitlement territory. When the PS3 came out the controller had built in features the PS2 didn't, it was an evolution. When the PS4 came out same thing. The DualSense looks to continue that tradition so I can see why they would want all devs to make it the default controller and not worry about the PS4 controller.

 

[Traxus]

Yep. It's feels like a really stupid and arbitrary limitation for crossgen games. I've run into two situations where this really sucks so far, so much that I'm actually considering installing the PS4 versions of these games, which is just a fucking shame.

Destiny 2 - Being locked out of using a DS4 with back-button attachment in the PS5 upgrade feels like a step backward and actually puts me at a disadvantage in competitive play.

Sackboy - For the very rare occasion my wife shows interest in playing co-op I already have a bunch of DS4s she could use but nope, we can't play co-op unless I fork out $70 for another DualSense. It's not worth it to me at this point for the amount of time we'd use it, so we'll probably never play Sackboy together.

I hope Sony backtracks on this policy for crossgen games like Destiny and Sackboy. It just doesn't make a lick of goddamn sense in these situations.

 

[Edward850]

Yeah it's annoying

Is this also an issue with Xbox?

I assume One controllers don't work with Series consoles, right?

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No they actually work on all titles on the Series S|X, but what's more the Series S|X controller works on the Xbox One as well. It's rather surprising to see that.

 

[Dolce]

OK, what about on the PS3 and PS4?

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The PS3 went fully wireless and didn't have PS2 connectors so that is obvious. The PS3->PS4 is closer to where we are now, where Sony arbitrarily decided you couldn't, especially when you could play PS4 games through Vita remote play.

 

[androvsky]

I am all about options but I think some people are really heading into entitlement territory. When the PS3 came out the controller had built in features the PS2 didn't, it was an evolution. When the PS4 came out same thing. The DualSense looks to continue that tradition so I can see why they would want all devs to make it the default controller and not worry about the PS4 controller.

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But they do have to worry about the PS4 controller because their games support Remote Play, which uses a DS4.

 

[vrcsix]

OK, let me ask because maybe I am looking at it wrong. When people bought the PS4, could you use the PS3 controller for all games? How about when people bought the PS3, could you use the PS2 controller for all games?

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You're just highlighting Sony's shitty history with this stuff. It's not just Sony, but right now Microsoft are setting an example. Nintendo's situation is a mess with all their different controllers.

You could use a PS1 controller on PS2. I'll buy the fact that it would have cost them money to put PS2 controller ports on PS3. But once in Bluetooth-land, it's purely a matter of OS support. There was no reason to not at least offer developers the ability to allow use of DS3 in their PS4 game. There weren't many, if any, games where the DS4 touchpad was central to the experience.

Is this also an issue with Xbox?

I assume One controllers don't work with Series consoles, right?

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The Series consoles and games are compatible with most One accessories, including the controllers. And the Series controllers are compatible with One consoles and games too.