Hoping this takes you directly to the comparison post, if not it's thread marked: https://www.resetera.com/threads/be...-ps4-games-on-ps5.320953/page-8#post-52578218
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PS5 SSD Storage Upgrade Is Coming This Summer
- Thread starter Jawbreaker
- Start date
Have you never had a noisy console before? This is my PS4 Pro currently, which is crazy loud at times
Don't tell me that's acceptable to you? I believe there are others with even louder consoles
That worked. Thank you. Good to see the community working for the greater gaming good.
No thank you I'm completely satisfied with my PS5 purchase. Why should they have waited ? At some point you just gotta launch the product.
Ps5 is already loud for me at times
the disc check and randomly gets fans going during apex legends
the disc check and randomly gets fans going during apex legends
Don't think so. But I do think Sony/MS should prioritize getting major patches out at least once a week until issues are largely ironed out
Probably worth noting that the article author is the one who asserted that the m.2 slot is locked due to overheating concerns:
The two are implicitly linked by the author.
It took me until 2021 to actually get them, so it kinda feels like that already. LOL
Xbox Series has viable solution for both cold storage and the SSD expansion. This is an exclusive PS5 issue
Is this really how people are interpreting this?
It sounds more like the firmware will just allow the fans to spin faster when needed, regardless of whether an SSD is installed. Fast M.2 SSDs can get hot, but unless there's a temp sensor or something in that bay, how would the system even know to ramp up fan speed? Just leave the cover off and let passive cooling do its thing.
I imagine it's because Sony wasn't ready with the hardware or OS and MS wasn't ready with the games. I'm enjoying both consoles regardless.
Not sure if I wast clear or you're just missing the point. The question isn't SSD vs platter-based HDD, it's going with an SSD at speeds that have been mainstream for years versus an SSD with speeds that are only barely available today and won't be reliably present in gaming PCs for years.
There's a known issue with some PS5 models where the fan can be heard whirring away (mine has this but it's nothing like my old PS4 Pro or as bad as others apparently have it). The article author states that the expansion bay is locked because of overheating concerns and will be unlocked when the PS5 firmware is updated to unlock higher fan speeds. Higher fan speed = more noise from the fan.
That's why some people are anticipating that their PS5 will get noisier if they add extra storage to it.
Oh wow! I had no idea. My PS5 is silent, so I got lucky I guess.
I mean I don't see anything wrong with speculating this.
Sony doesn't really have a good track record with silent systems so if Sony is saying they need to up the fan speed because of the NVME, Then yea, I can't see why people are worried especially if their current ps5 console Is already loud.
Happened with PS4, too. Some always said the console isn't loud. Don't get me wrong, a PS5 with the loud fans is still more silent than any PS4. But it was the same ignorance back then.
Wow. I can't get how people are not more upset with the continuing poor vs good fan roulette at PS, where everyone pays the same price for noticable different quality of products. Having different fans, due to the mass production goals is normal, but Sony should make sure that there isn't a noticable difference. But they got away with the roulette approach on PS4 and PS4 Pro. So why change?
I hope cold storage and others changes are coming in summer, too. It's about time.
In the deep dive Sony said they demand higher bandwiths for the SSD you put in. As I recall it was 7GB/s RAW minimum.
But are these definitely fact, is my point. I know the unnamed Sony person doesn't want to be named because it's not public yet, but it seems odd because the actual heat, even in that given space, likely wouldn't be enough to generate all of the "concerns" I'm seeing in this thread about noise. I'll happily eat crow if doing this absolutely, across the board (regardless of fan model), causes the PS5 to be appreciably noisier.
It goes by many names depending on the industry: cold storage, data at rest (though this is a tad more specific to just being on disk, but people use it a lot there too), just plain "storage" whatever. In this case with the PS5 games requiring faster speeds of the internal SSD, cold storage is definitely the correct term though.
It's the people who already have a noisy fan that are making the most noise about this from my reading (no pun intended). Not sure anyone is saying it will make ALL PS5's louder. We can only go on what the article and the author state, if this turns out to be wrong (though it sounds very believable) then good times, but it's a little bit unfair to dismiss the logical concerns of those who already have a noisy console.
I wouldn't worry too much about an SSD expansion causing the fan to ramp up. Even a gen 4 SSD only uses like 5 watts of power and it looks like there's plenty of room in the expansion bay to fit the heatsink that gen 4 SSDs often come with.
I think Sony mentioned in one of their presentations last year that the fan profiles are a thing that they would adjust over time as they collected real world usage data. They use an algorithm to predict what the processor load will be and then have the fan adjusted in time for it. It's a pretty interesting idea and the only downside is that it requires tuning it in as you get usage data so that the processor can be at a good temperature without too much fan noise. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it unless we actually start seeing a problem.
If Sony delayed they would have had 6-7GB/s expansion available at launch.
If MS delayed they would have had a much faster storage than 2.4GB/s.
Both of these choices are tied to the launch window. But it's crazy to suggest either should have delayed.
Is there some better solution that would be coming out next fall or something?
Probably they do because if it's off then the airflow would be messed up.
I think if you go back and read what Jim Ryan said you'll see that he only really addressed bringing Sony's back catalog to the PC. So for example, I would expect TLOU Remastered and TLOU 2, GoW, Spiderman, etc. to come to PC.
Let's revisit this once the first non-crossgen first-party PS5 game comes to PC. If we have to wait ~3 years for the port like with HZD and now with Days Gone, then we won't be seeing these ports until 2025. By that point we're probably talking a whole different ballgame in terms of what the hardware profile of the PC user base looks like.
What he described is a easy implementation, though. Sure even smaller things take time and Sony firmware team had probably plenty to do. But it's not like the team provided fast updates ever. I dunno if they are just to small of a team for the tasks needing to be tackled or not, so I won't blame entirely them. Could be Sony management....
That's completely false, because Sony plans to bring more games to PC and I dunno why the SSD is treated different than other hardware components. Just change SSD with CPU and then I can ask the questions, why does Xbox have a good CPU instead of a worse on in there? Why force PC people to upgrade their CPU some point? What's the problem upgrading to a SSD compared to getting a better CPU/GPU due to the baseline (aka consoles) being much higher compared to Xbox One ?
And btw I want to friendly, but what are you suggesting in the first place? That Xbox needs corridors for loading? Jesus christ if that's the case....
I can tell you now, yes games in the future will require a SSD on PC. Thus, Microsoft didn't let themselves get bottlenecked and based their decision around PC users. No, Xbox SSD doesn't need corridors, elevator or other nonsense.
I would like to know how many are working on these things at Sony, too. Some decisions are just odd and some things are taking way to long imo. Especially when it comes to storage solutions.
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I would guess that is to prevent users from installing drives that are too tall and then touch the plastic housing- a safety risk
All modern NVMe SSDs have on-die temperature sensors just like CPUs, though some lie about actual temp. Presumably the hardware qualification Sony will be doing to whitelist approved SSDs will calibrate an offset based on which SSD is installed.
People here are wildly speculating about heat though... NVMe drives average under 5W power consumption and maybe get up to 8W at peak sustained write. This is on a console that typically consumes 200W with a 350W PSU. 5W of heat is a drop in the bucket.
I think he is referring to better solution, which are out today compared to Xbox SSD, getting cheaper and this would be the case. Thus they could have build in a faster SSD for the same price point.
The SSD review posted in the thread earlier showed that an SSD speculated to be compatible can run as hot as 89 degrees. A lot of people are not going to agree with you that adding a component that can reach that temperature in a tiny bay with restricted airflow is 'a drop in the bucket" for the PS5
Edit!: Lol, it was you who posted it wasn't it! Hello again bruhaha, glad to see you're back in the thread :D
Edit 2: I've changed my mind, and I agree with you. Dealing with an extra ~90C of temp in a restricted airflow slot probably is a drop in the bucket for a PS5, it just needs the fans to run faster than they do now. Just like the article states.
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If my PS5 makes some noise after this expansion, it will make a noise for the first time. If it wasn't for the light on the front, I wouldn't know it's on for the most part. I feel either extremely lucky I got a silent PS5 or extremely lucky I don't listen to any noise it makes. Either way I'm good.
My point is a larger one regarding the whole launch cycle of this generation. It feels like it began too soon for a number of reasons.
Most significantly both companies are dealing with stock issues & lack of games.
To be honest I feel that Microsoft put out a significantly better launch version of their system but it lacks killer-app exclusive games.
On the other side of the coin there is little on the PS5 that merits a purchase right now either (though people will justify their purchase with Demon's Souls alone).
I think about how cagey both companies were last year leading into the launch and how toxic the conversation was around cross-gen vs next gen games. And yet here we are in a situation where cross-gen games are the rule rather than the exception.
Scalpers are devouring restocks.
People are running into storage walls four months in.
Controllers are breaking.
Fans and/or coils are loud.
Perhaps Sony felt pressure to match Microsoft's timeline whereas Microsoft felt pressure to start fresh after the poor showing of their previous gen.
Sony certainly didn't need to move on from the PS4 yet.
Microsoft on the other hand hoped to get a leg-up over Sony.
The thought experiment here is how this would look if the launches were planned for late 2021.
The systems and their OS would be more polished. The launch library of games would be stellar. The stock would have a better chance to meet demand.
All these factors can be argued to high heaven and back but I do not doubt this launch in particular will go down as underwhelming for gaming historians and the industry as a whole.
- Jim Ryan announced nothing other than that they bring more of their back catalog to PC. Nothing more.
- Watch the PS5 technical presentation from Mark Cerny. Their math was that they needed a certain threshold in order to avoid the loading/rendering bottleneck.
- The difference isn't SSD vs HDD, it's a 5.5gb/s SSD vs a 2.4gb/s SSD.
- I don't see where you're getting the corridor/elevator stuff from. You're tilting at windmills on this.
Absolute temperature is different from total heat. Fans and cooling dissipate heat (watts), not temperature. The cooling solution for a 30C gymnasium will have no trouble cooling a 40C bedroom.
You can have 1W of power heat the head of a pin to 200C but that is very easy heat to get rid of as long as there is somewhere for that heat to go. 5W is not a lot in the context of the whole console which has a fan designed for 200W+ of heat.
You posted as I edited, I'll just copy it here for convenience:
First (PS5) is a design issue because the M2 slot is already built in, the second (Xbox Series) situation was likely to keep costs down.
Noted, will wait for PS5 Pro.
It's not about what is available this fall, it's what could be designed into a product that required devkits to be ready in 2019, availability of parts and locked contracts for starting the mass production around june 2020.
A lot of the planning was based on predicting what could be available on time for launch. The more conservative they go, the lower the chance of supply issues and the earlier they can have faster drives.
A later launch would probably have given MS the time to integrate a drive twice as fast, because the timing for getting the faster low-cost controller on 4x Gen4 wouldn't have been as risky. They were going with off-the-shelf controllers so they were tied to it.
Sony however bypassed the supply issue by designing their own controller for the internal drive. Otherwise I think it would have been impossible. The biggest problem here is that they designed the expansion around a standard SSDs which needs to be 6-7GB/s. They ended up with a delay testing the external storage.
Sony could have solved this with a proprietary only solution externally too (basically an external version of their own internal drive), but the feedback about the Vita meant using a proprietary storage wouldn't be acceptable. So it looks like the non-proprietary expansion is the root of the delay, and now peeple would prefer a proprietary expansion because reasons.
Referring to those of us who want more storage as "digital hoarders" is really dumb. If you look beyond your own solitary gaming experience, you'd see that some of us actually have wives and children(or brothers and sisters) who play a completely different subset of games than we do, and the current storage situation is wholly unacceptable. Not to mention people with incredibly restrictive data caps. Not even having cold storage from day 1 is just incompetence.
I don't imagine the new fan curve will change for those with normal airflow to their system. Surely those who have media cabinets with less then adequate airflow will use it to prevent overheating. But unless the temperature threshold hits like 80C THEN the fans will really ramp up. I don't expect it to get any louder for me.
Jury's still out on real world implication of much faster storage than 2.4gb/s. So far loading time comparisons have been a wash. I expect Sony first party to take full advantage of the faster speeds but we will have to see when Ratchet comes out what that actually means in practice.
Cool examples now include jumping quickly to a mission via cards but what is the use case for that in regular day to day? Most people resume a game they are playing into the same level
It seems to have Death Star technology built in though.
But yes, the PS4 Pro can get insanely loud. PS5 is so quiet on the other hand, I love it and hope it stays this way, even with expanded storage.
Would be stupid if not.
My understanding from the chip diagrams posted from various presentations was that MS dedicated more die space for GPU compute units and sacrificed space for IO (PCIe lanes) on the APU die to do it. They only have 4 lanes split among 2 SSDs plus just a few more lanes for USB 3 gen 1 (5Gbps) and networking (WiFi 5). Sony has fewer GPU CUs and went with a more traditional IO configuration with being able to support 2 SSDs with 4 lanes each and USB 3 gen 2 (10Gbps) and WiFi 6.
I'm confused as to why there's so many speculative comments like this. Was it the rephrasing of the already known fan control functionality, or did I miss an official acknowledgement of thermal issues or future fan control requirements?