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Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
Lol this argument makes no sense.

The BC is clearly not a focal point for PS5 like it is for the Series X, and is not anywhere as robust. This is not surprising. This has been clear for like a year.

This has zero implications for games designed for PS5.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,911
The Netherlands
So backwards compatible games can basically be manually enhanced on Xbox, but not on Playstation (because Xbox views One X and Series X games as the same without any sort of backwards compatibility layer, while Playstation views PS4 and PS5 games as separate, running PS4 games in a backwards compatibility profile on the PS5.)

That's the thing; in the end, the Xbox still runs a (form) of a Windows based OS with abstracted APIs exposing the hardware. This abstraction makes things a bit less efficient; hence DX12 being introdced so developers are able code more directly towards the hardware itself.

On PS4; Sony has always allowed more direct access to the hardware; making it hard to just run the same piece of software on a new piece of hardware like the PS5; unless (as I've understood things to be):

- A PS4 game runs in a BC-mode exactly mimicking the PS4 (Pro) hardware. This happens when the game is not able to run in the boost mode and might show faulty behaviour)
- The PS4 game is able to run in the PS5 mode ('boost mode') and use whatever extra resources are available (as long as they dont break the game). So dynamic resolutions will peak more often and framerates will stick to their target more often; but its basically the PS4 game that has some extra juice available. But it wont magically get a 120fps mode, or use raytracing. Its still the same piece of software.
- Patched/Updated: To really use the PS5 hardware; the game will need a probably significant patch/update.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Ghost runs at a higher resolution? Do you have a source for that?

People keep pointing out that God of War wasn't patched. Fact is, there was a patch. We just don't know if it had anything to do with how it runs on PS5. I get that it most likely would have been able to achieve 60 fps without a patch.
Yes it runs at a higher resolution than the resolution used for the "higher framerate" setting on PS4 Pro, being literally at the "higher resolution" setting while running at 60fps. Unlike God of War which, as it wasn't patched to take advantage of the added processing power, only runs at 60fps on the mode that already had a 60fps cap on PS4 Pro, while its "higher resolution" mode remains at 30fps.
 

degauss

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,631
I know you might not think you are concern trolling, but the time for this thread is in like... minimum 6 months time, maybe a year, maybe more, if this is still a problem

We aren't even a week in and you can only point to three games, one of them using an engine which definitely isn't ported to the PS5 yet.

I'll also say squadrons is definitely looking a lot better in PSVR on PS5, I think they undersold them BC patch.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Whatever the Microsoft backwards compatible team has done to make these updates easy is fantastic but the PS5 is doing a lot better with backwards compatibility than we were expecting earlier in the year.

In regards to the framerate output limit, it's hard to say they actually did anything. If like PS4 Pro games on PS5, the Xbox Series X can only run XB1 games at the max framerate of the XB1, we would not know yet simply because the XB1 itself can already output at 120hz.
 

Darkkahn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,350
No offense to the OP but I think these type of threads need to be locked immediately. We already know that the Microsoft solution is better than Sonys and for the new games we'll just have to wait.
 

Stall_19

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,992
The only implication is that Sony doesn't care as much about backwards compatibility as Microsoft does.
 
OP
OP
Hail to Starscream
Oct 27, 2017
416
No offense to the OP but I think these type of threads need to be locked immediately. We already know that the Microsoft solution is better than Sonys and for the new games we'll just have to wait.

I got no problem with that.

Me after creating this thread:

05onfire1_xp-jumbo-v2.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,918
If you have to preface this by saying not you are not concern trolling you are concern trolling
He's not acting concerned, the OP is straight up saying Sony fucked up.

We live in an age where the life span of the most popular individual games is longer than an entire console generation. If anything, adopting a system like what Xbox has would incentivize more hardware sales/conversion of PC players to console.
 

MP!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,198
Las Vegas
this basically falls in line with each company's philosophy

Sony- "We believe in generations"
MS- "Generations don't really exist anymore"
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
I never said the 60fps upgrade would only affect the "higher framerate" setting. I should have pointed that out better.
You said they had "no improvement besides framerate" while lumping both God of War and Ghost of Tsushima in there. Tsushima literally increased the resolution at which it runs at its best framerate. Which God of War could have done if it was patched for it.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
9,619
Projecting issues with a handful of BC patches onto future cross-gen games is a terrible extrapolation. Here's a list of 120fps games (from pushsquare, didn't vet everything myself):

If SWS and Rocket League wanted to they could have. They either don't have the motivation to do it, or have incentives to not do it.

Except that all of these are games with native PS5 versions that are being made. The OP is basically saying that it's easier for devs to make older games enhanced for Xbox Gen 9 than it is for devs to make PS4 games enhanced for PS5 simply due to the way that the systems do backwards compatibility. Rocket League didn't have the motivation/money to do it because as they said, they would have needed to re build the game as a native PS5 game to add a 120 FPS mode, and I can guarantee that's the same reason why Star Wars Squadrons doesn't have a better PS5 mode, because it would have required them to port it fully rather than tweak configurations.

And OP even pointed out that it really isn't a big deal other than maybe for some smaller games that are Xbox One/PS4 and in the next few years will be cross gen which could limit PS5 options if devs have limited budgets. But really, this is nothing more than noting a "huh, that's interesting" with regards to the different approaches for backwards compatible enhanced games
 

Mutedpenguin

Member
Dec 5, 2017
1,160
I've actually been waiting off on playing more Squadrons because I've been hoping for some upgrades that take advantage of the PS5 for VR. Has there been any info on that?
'PSVR Without Parole' said on youtube that Squadrons and Dreams are the two games to benefit most on PS5 VR due to both games having dynamic rsolutions. So they are sharper if nothing else.
 
OP
OP
Hail to Starscream
Oct 27, 2017
416
Except that all of these are games with native PS5 versions that are being made. The OP is basically saying that it's easier for devs to make older games enhanced for Xbox Gen 9 than it is for devs to make PS4 games enhanced for PS5 simply due to the way that the systems do backwards compatibility. Rocket League didn't have the motivation/money to do it because as they said, they would have needed to re build the game as a native PS5 game to add a 120 FPS mode, and I can guarantee that's the same reason why Star Wars Squadrons doesn't have a better PS5 mode, because it would have required them to port it fully rather than tweak configurations.

And OP even pointed out that it really isn't a big deal other than maybe for some smaller games that are Xbox One/PS4 and in the next few years will be cross gen which could limit PS5 options if devs have limited budgets. But really, this is nothing more than noting a "huh, that's interesting" with regards to the different approaches for backwards compatible enhanced games

Thanks, this is pretty much what my post was meant to be about, but I was having a hard time getting it into the right wording.
 

bigbaldwolf86

attempted ban circumvention by using an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
615
I really couldn't care less if old games don't run at 120fps and neither will most people. Sony's implementation of BC won't affect PS5 games either.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,245
The BC is clearly not a focal point for PS5 like it is for the Series X, and is not anywhere as robust. This is not surprising. This has been clear for like a year.
I fail to see how BC is handled any differently between the PS5 for PS4 games and the XSX for Xbox One games.
If anything, it seems an identical strategy. Unless a game receives a specific patch to enable better use of next-gen grunt, all previous gen BC games are capped at the frame rate and resolution limits they shipped with.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
Projecting issues with a handful of BC patches onto future cross-gen games is a terrible extrapolation. Here's a list of 120fps games (from pushsquare, didn't vet everything myself):

If SWS and Rocket League wanted to they could have. They either don't have the motivation to do it, or have incentives to not do it.
They pretty much would have to make a new version I think all of those games are native. But the OP makes no sense to me on it affecting future games at all lol.
I really couldn't care less if old games don't run at 120fps and neither will most people. Sony's implementation of BC won't affect PS5 games either.
Yeah locked 60 is more than enough in most games. Hell if you didnt buy a tv in the last like 2 years you wont even get to sniff 120 anyway. Would be more relevant for new games later in the gen when people have the TVs for it.
 

Ogni-XR21

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,390
Germany
Wasn't there talk of how easy it is to optimize a PS4 game as a PS5 version. Something along the lines of "you get the PS4 base done and can scale up from there". I don' know where I read/heard that but they made it sound like it was a very easy solution of scaling up games to take advantage of PS5 features in the general PS-SDK
 
May 12, 2020
1,587
Lol this argument makes no sense.

The BC is clearly not a focal point for PS5 like it is for the Series X, and is not anywhere as robust. This is not surprising. This has been clear for like a year.

This has zero implications for games designed for PS5.

This. The only BC game I play right now is GT Sport.
 
Jun 13, 2019
72
Except that all of these are games with native PS5 versions that are being made. The OP is basically saying that it's easier for devs to make older games enhanced for Xbox Gen 9 than it is for devs to make PS4 games enhanced for PS5 simply due to the way that the systems do backwards compatibility. Rocket League didn't have the motivation/money to do it because as they said, they would have needed to re build the game as a native PS5 game to add a 120 FPS mode, and I can guarantee that's the same reason why Star Wars Squadrons doesn't have a better PS5 mode, because it would have required them to port it fully rather than tweak configurations.

And OP even pointed out that it really isn't a big deal other than maybe for some smaller games that are Xbox One/PS4 and in the next few years will be cross gen which could limit PS5 options if devs have limited budgets. But really, this is nothing more than noting a "huh, that's interesting" with regards to the different approaches for backwards compatible enhanced games
I don't think it's even just a case of budgeting but also user experience. We've already seen evidence that games with both PS4 and PS5 versions don't share trophies and require convoluted processes to transfer save data. It's probably not worth it for most devs because the result will be confusing and require manual user intervention (though this might not apply to something like Fortnite and Rocket League which already share some save data between platforms.) I was looking forward to hopefully getting a 120Hz mode for Spelunky 2 on the PS5 but it increasingly seems like that would be a lot of hassle what with having to create a new SKU.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,380
Not sure about this, 2022 won't have cross-gen titles.

Several 2022 titles were announced/teased to be next-gen only.

Suicide Squad
EA Motive new game
Dragon Age 4

For example.
The PS3 got notable games (particularly from Japan) up until late 2016, I think it's fair to assume we'll still see stuff coming out on PS4 in 2022.
 

yyr

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,462
White Plains, NY
You made an enormous post... for that question?
Of course they will make a native PS5. They will also make a native Series version.
(I want to believe you that this is not concern trolling, but your post history is full of vitriol against SONY and the PS5)

The point is, they don't need to make a "native Series version." Due to the way that Microsoft built their framework, the version that exists for Xbox One already runs natively on Series X/S.

This is going to make adding enhancements to existing games much easier on the Microsoft side, hence the question.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,211
Blood & Truth was recently updated to 90fps

Polybius is 120fps native

Arizona Sunshine has always been 90fps
 
OP
OP
Hail to Starscream
Oct 27, 2017
416
(I want to believe you that this is not concern trolling, but your post history is full of vitriol against SONY and the PS5)

As someone who has the PS5 pre-ordered (I'm from EU) I was disappointed in some of the decisions Sony has made in regards to their new console. Especially disappointing was the decision to not implement a system-level solution for PS5 games to read PS4 saves, thus requiring devs to implement their own save transfer solutions. It just creates a chaotic cross-gen environment.
I have criticised MS in the past aswell, for example for their microtransactions in their exclusive games, the cluttered Xbox Store and ads in the UI.
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
It's a huge deal for esports and it's not going anywhere, champ.
Listen sport, if you honestly think PS4 esport games not having 120fps on ps5 through BC is a big market, you know, instead of pro players just moving over to a ps5 native version, I got a bridge to sell you. You're taking any a niche of a niche there
 
Indie dev shares his thoughts, XB1 & PS4 likely start to get abandoned in 2021

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,319
But what about smaller devs? The PS4 install base is huge so most devs will continue to develop for the PS4 for at least the next 2 years. On top of the extra budget, time and resources required to make a native PS5 port, devs have to implement their own solutions for save transfer between PS4 and PS5 (No Mans Sky, Borderlands and Watch Dogs Legion have shown that the PS5 versions cannot read the saves of their PS4 versions, instead you have to upload and download your save in-game).
Knowing that the PS4 version will run fine on PS5 on it's own, will they continuously do the extra work and make a native PS5 version?

As an indie who is releasing a PS5 game soon, I don't think this is accurate.

Install base isn't that important. Active install base is. The older a system gets, the lower the percent of owners who are actually active in the ecosystem becomes. Whereas with a brand new system, you're going to have nearly 100% of the install base as active users.

As a system becomes older, the storefront becomes flooded with games. Just as importantly, it becomes flooded with heavily discounted games. This makes it harder and harder for any games other than the most popular to succeed. Release on the PS5 this month or next and you're most likely competing against dozens of games. Release on the PS4 now and you're competing against thousands of games. I also suspect that Sony will push native PS5 games much more heavily than PS4 games.

This whole process starts to progress exponentially faster when a replacement system comes out. I predict indies will rapidly start to abandon the XBO & PS4 in 2021 and by the beginning of 2022, those two systems will basically be a ghost town.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Hail to Starscream
Oct 27, 2017
416
As an indie who is releasing a PS5 game soon, I don't think this is accurate.

Install base isn't that important. Active install base is. The older a system gets, the lower the percent of owners who are actually active in the ecosystem becomes. Whereas with a brand new system, you're going to have nearly 100% of the install base as active users.

As a system becomes older, the storefront becomes flooded with games. Just as importantly, it becomes flooded with heavily discounted games. This makes it harder and harder for any games other than the most popular to succeed. Release on the PS5 this month or next and you're most likely competing against dozens of games. Release on the PS4 now and you're competing against thousands of games. I also suspect that Sony will push native PS5 games much more heavily than PS4 games.

This whole process starts to progress exponentially faster when a replacement system comes out. I predict indies will rapidly start to abandon the XBO & PS4 in 2021 and by the beginning of 2022, those two systems will basically be a ghost town.

Thank you for your input! Sounds good for future PS5 games.
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,092
My understanding is that 120hz is the only thing devs can't patch in on BC PS4 games. Which is unfortunate, to be clear.

I also think MS just has great incentive to do these patches since - no shade at all - they don't have much of a first-party lineup for year one.