PS5 ends the button logic of O for accept, X for cancel for Asia/Japan [Up: Cannot reconfigure]

Creepy Woody · Oct 4, 2020

I assume this will just be for the OS? I'm sure in the Japanese versions of the games the layout will be their usual layout.

It was that way when I got a Japanese launch Vita, but pretty much every Australian game I bought, it was the regular layout once in the games.

I wonder what Japanese gamers think. The layout has been this way for a long time and there is a cultural reason why.
Not only that but the company and brand originated in Japan.
Do they see it as insensitive or as some of you in here are saying: "they will get used to it".
When it involves culture and history, it seems a bit insensitive to do it this late to a whole region of gamers where it began.

hanshen · Oct 4, 2020

Aestivalis said:

lol I haven't seen that movie for quite a long time

Aurica · Oct 4, 2020

Transistor said:
Cheesemeister is having a bit of an overreaction there. People will get used to it in, like, five minutes. This was long overdue.

It's just an annoyance. It's already annoying for me when I play a lot of my ps4 games in Japanese and then switch for some of the western games that don't go by your system setting for x and o. So add ps5 games to that mix where I'll still be playing my ps4 games. Of course you realize it when you start the game up, but it's just kinda confusing going back and forth. I do sometimes screw up and do the wrong thing in a game.

Maybe it will be better in the long run since I can just remember "x to confirm in all ps5 games."

CaptainUnderpants · Oct 4, 2020

Eeyore said:
Everything okay?

Sad for what Sony has become, I meant to say.

Samaritan · Oct 4, 2020

That genuinely sucks for those regions that use O to confirm and X to cancel. Just make it an opt-in option in the system settings, what's so hard about that?

leder · Oct 4, 2020

Nanashrew said:
The change is after 25 years of Playstation, but 40+ years of JP/Asia game industry standard.

Yep, awful decision.

Deleted member 46804 · Oct 4, 2020

Eeyore said:
There seems to be a concerted effort to concentrate power in the West with this console. With PS4 having remappable buttons I'm hopeful this can be changed at the system level. But still weird timing to make this change now.

Unifying the button layout doesn't have anything to do with "concentrating" power in the west. It makes for a smooth user experience where you don't have to guess which button to press. They should have done this ages ago.

Deleted member 46804 · Oct 4, 2020

Samaritan said:
That genuinely sucks for those regions that use O to confirm and X to cancel. Just make it an opt-in option in the system settings, what's so hard about that?

I mean like how? It is a super easy change to get used to. They could have gone the other way and made O the de facto and people would have been just as happy. This is about unifying the experience.

Issen · Oct 4, 2020

Eeyore said:
There seems to be a concerted effort to concentrate power in the West with this console. With PS4 having remappable buttons I'm hopeful this can be changed at the system level. But still weird timing to make this change now.

Yet japanese influences were the first to get a hands-on with the console. I don't think the situation is quite so black and white. It's not like Sony HQ has absolutely no input in SIE, like SIE doesn't have any japanese executives or like SIE Inc (japanese) ceased to exist.

Eeyore · Oct 4, 2020

CaptainUnderpants said:
Sad for what Sony has become, I meant to say.

Oh okay. Just making sure. The world is pretty shit at the moment.

DukeNukum said:
Unifying the button layout doesn't have anything to do with "concentrating" power in the west. It makes for a smooth user experience where you don't have to guess which button to press. They should have done this ages ago.

Except the Japanese already knew which buttons to press because they've been pressing them for 25 years.

Shark · Oct 4, 2020

I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

If you're going to make a change, start of gen is the best time to do it.

Samaritan · Oct 4, 2020

DukeNukum said:
I mean like how? It is a super easy change to get used to. They could have gone the other way and made O the de facto and people would have been just as happy. This is about unifying the experience.

You sound like someone who's never tried playing a game with O to confirm/X to cancel before, it's like forcing someone who plays inverted to suddenly play uninverted; you're going against years or even decades of muscle memory in some cases. "Unifying the experience" isn't an excuse not to offer the option to switch it back to how people have been playing for their whole lives.

Otheradam · Oct 4, 2020

Well Nintendo still does the Japanese method universally so I have to deal with it regardless.

data · Oct 4, 2020

Samaritan said:
You sound like someone who's never tried playing a game with O to confirm/X to cancel before, it's like forcing someone who plays inverted to suddenly play uninverted; you're going against years or even decades of muscle memory in some cases. "Unifying the experience" isn't an excuse not to offer the option to switch it back to how people have been playing for their whole lives.

I have to agree with this.

I wonder how some posters would react if the mapping switch was the other way around.

mangrilla · Oct 4, 2020

This thread is so bonkers. I'm sure Japanese gamers will get along just fine. I have faith in them.

NotVeryFriendly · Oct 4, 2020

Jebusman said:
Tactile sensation isn't a requirement for a tangible symbol system, simply the association of a object/image to a concept.

It makes sense that when you have been culturally engrained to associate the concept of an O to mean affirmation/positive, and the X to mean rejection/negative, that you don't need to then reintroduce the concept when someone is first exposed to video games. They should intuitively look at the controller, see "O" and "X", and be able to parse which one is probably the positive/confirm and which one is negative/go back. Instead now they're being told the opposite is true for this one case, something that I'm sure people "can" learn to deal with, but still seems ultimately unnecessary to change.

So I honestly don't know what you're going on about because tangible symbol systems are specifically designed for people with general communication issues, not just visual issues. It's literally built around the idea that you need to be able to see the symbols to interpret them for a number of examples, with tactile only being needed when visual issues are brought in.

On the bolded if you read back to the beginning of the post which I'm replying to, they specifically highlighted the image of a 'raised circle' on an ATM machine which is part of a very specific set of symbols (which I already explicitly outlined) called the Universal Tangible Symbol System, where the tactile element of the symbol X and the symbol O is a critical part of ascribing the meaning of those (to be 'reject' and 'confirm' respectively) symbols as they specifically relate to their usage in the context of aids for those who are visually impaired and it is a totally false equivalent to the printed, non-raised symbols on a controller where the buttons themselves do not have any inherent meaning; X means jump, it means attack, it means enter, it means go back, etc. - not only does it change depending on the actual content of a game, but even at a UI level the meaning varies from game-to-game (where in most games circle is enter and x is back, but this is not universally) - it is not at all comparable to the raised circle or raised x symbol as it is used to aid the visually impaired, where the button has one and only one consistent action. This is why the tactile element is relevant, because the example given was specifically a symbol where the tactile element is relevant.

The fact that there isn't a global standard in the button usage is a block to the underlined. Not all games in Asian markets stick to the convention of circle as enter and x as back, it depends specifically at the game. Looking at the symbols on the controller as of right now tells you nothing about whether you will use the button to accept or go back. Only by implementing and enforcing a global standard can you expect consistency, and at that stage the ability to remap the button is something you know will work universally (something which is not the case at present specifically because it is not a universal standard).

deepFlaw · Oct 4, 2020

I don't get people going "well, I got used to it when I played import games". Like... yeah, you voluntarily imported that! Much weirder to blanket force it on entire regions that aren't used to it and it's counter-intuitive for, especially with the broader differences in what actions get assigned to which button because of it, as others have mentioned.

If they want to get some sort of standard in place, it would make way more sense to just stop hard-coding it and pictures of the buttons in games across the board, and make it something you can specifically change in the settings.

JaggiBaggi · Oct 4, 2020

Japanese players, the ones actually affected by this: <Righteous anger>

This thread, where most people aren't even affected by this: BRO SONY IS RIGHT JAPANESE PLAYERS ARE OVERREACTING COME ON THIS IS JUST A SMALL CHANGE YOU GET USED TO IT HAHA

It's understandable Japanese players are angry at this, and I think dismissing their concerns like this is at best disingenuous, at worst borderline "Suck it I got mine". Why isn't this an OS level option, anyway? Like, this should be hilariously easy to implement.

just_myles · Oct 4, 2020

I like X as confirm since it's matches the A position on Xbox. It's ergonomically in a good place for me. I always hated O to confirm.

mangrilla · Oct 4, 2020

data said:
I wonder how some posters would react if the mapping switch was the other way around.

Seriously, between stuff like Spider-Man face and this, I really think some Era members need serious introspection on how they deal with change. Such overwrought reactions.

.exe · Oct 4, 2020

It's like that Switch version of Dark Souls where B is confirm and A is cancel. Almost unplayable (not even kidding lmao). My brain could not cope.

NotVeryFriendly · Oct 4, 2020

JaggiBaggi said:
Japanese players, the ones actually affected by this: <Righteous anger>

This thread, where most people aren't even affected by this: BRO SONY IS RIGHT JAPANESE PLAYERS ARE OVERREACTING COME ON THIS IS JUST A SMALL CHANGE YOU GET USED TO IT HAHA

It's understandable Japanese players are angry at this, and I think dismissing their concerns like this is at best disingenuous, at worst borderline "Suck it I got mine". Why isn't this an OS level option, anyway? Like, this should be hilariously easy to implement.

It would be if a single standard was enforced (or ideally there was an attribute explicitly regarding 'system confirm/back'), which is what this change is doing. At present games in the Asian market may use either X as confirm or O as confirm, it depends on the game (although yes the majority use circle as confirm).

If a standard is set (e.g. 'all games must confirm with x/all games must confirm with o') then you can simply allow for a system level remapping of x to o to achieve the desired result and be assured all games will consistently remap.

Arex · Oct 4, 2020

As an Asian with localized games with both control schemes, I've never had any problem switching between O/X and X/O lol

Even playing game that has X as confirm while having PS3/4 menu that has O as confirm.

Really a non problem. for me anyway lol

Deleted member 6582 · Oct 4, 2020

This is highly stupid and I'm going to guess they roll it back with software settings. If you were going to go this route just change the button symbols. People care less about a particular controller's semantics than basic symbols socialized into you from birth.

PianoBlack · Oct 4, 2020

I had a Taiwan PSP so I have a little nostalgia tear hearing this.

On the other hand we currently have lower button confirm on Nintendo, right button confirm on Switch, and a mix on PS depending on game and system. So whatever.

Tohsaka · Oct 4, 2020

Issen said:
Yet japanese influences were the first to get a hands-on with the console. I don't think the situation is quite so black and white. It's not like Sony HQ has absolutely no input in SIE, like SIE doesn't have any japanese executives or like SIE Inc (japanese) ceased to exist.

Because they know the console is going to be the hardest sell in Japan. There's almost nothing Japanese to play at launch, the system is huge and now they're doing things like this that remove the standard that was in place for decades. I'm not trying to come across as a console warrior or anything, I have a PS5 pre-ordered and am not planning on getting either model of the new Xbox. It's just really obvious that this console was not made with Japan in mind and they have reason to be unhappy.

dallow_bg · Oct 4, 2020

I liked O better.

chrisypoo · Oct 4, 2020

Transistor said:
Cheesemeister is having a bit of an overreaction there. People will get used to it in, like, five minutes. This was long overdue.

This. It's not a big deal. Confirm could be changed to r1 and back could be mapped to tapping my left big toe twice, I'd be used to it in a day. People looking for controversy where there just isn't any.

Deleted member 46804 · Oct 4, 2020

Samaritan said:
You sound like someone who's never tried playing a game with O to confirm/X to cancel before, it's like forcing someone who plays inverted to suddenly play uninverted; you're going against years or even decades of muscle memory in some cases. "Unifying the experience" isn't an excuse not to offer the option to switch it back to how people have been playing for their whole lives.

That's an exaggeration. I've experienced both and am constantly getting confused switching from Switch to Xbox to PS4. I'm sure there will be a system accessibility option to switch buttons around in the OS but you might have to remember that X means O and O means X. Getting used to this change is a trivial thing and will be better for everyone in the long run.

borat · Oct 4, 2020

using 'nightmare' for something that will take a few hours to adjust to

Wollan · Oct 4, 2020

theycantkeepgettingawaywithit.gif

Belker · Oct 4, 2020

This looks like of the perspective tricks they used in LOTR to make Gandalf and Frodo look the same height.

"If we get an enormous TV but put the player 30' away, we can put the console in between them and make it look almost normal sized'

En-ou · Oct 4, 2020

DukeNukum said:
I mean like how? It is a super easy change to get used to. They could have gone the other way and made O the de facto and people would have been just as happy. This is about unifying the experience.

This thread would would be triple the posts of it were the other way around.

Deleted member 46804 · Oct 4, 2020

En-ou said:
This thread would would be triple the posts of it were the other way around.

Being that this is a western focused forum and that would be a more impactful change to more people, sure. But unifying the experience either way is better for everyone. I wish this would be done across all of the consoles. Make the B button on Xbox the confirm button for all I care. Just make it so I don't have to think about the experience when I jump from game to game, console to console.

Deleted member 46804 · Oct 4, 2020

Belker said:
This looks like of the perspective tricks they used in LOTR to make Gandalf and Frodo look the same height.

"If we get an enormous TV but put the player 30' away, we can put the console in between them and make it look almost normal sized'

I think you have the wrong thread but the perspective and setup is hilarious. Look at the giant white table devoid of anything but the console. Lol

Theswweet · Oct 4, 2020

I liked circle for confirm, though! Both my PS4 Pro and my Vita are JP systems so I've gotten used to it.

QuixoticNeutral · Oct 4, 2020

Samaritan said:
You sound like someone who's never tried playing a game with O to confirm/X to cancel before, it's like forcing someone who plays inverted to suddenly play uninverted; you're going against years or even decades of muscle memory in some cases. "Unifying the experience" isn't an excuse not to offer the option to switch it back to how people have been playing for their whole lives.

Quite right. The overrepresentation of multi-console owners on this board is vastly understating just how much of a disruption this is. It's as though people who travel and drive internationally, and can easily handle both driving on the left and right, didn't understand why anyone would grumble if an auto manufacturer stopped producing vehicles with the driver's seat on a certain side.

I'm more stubborn about this than most, but as a Nintendo/PC player for most of my life, I absolutely refuse to ever capitulate to the backwards Xbox ABXY layout. (I remap everything on PC to Nintendo's way or don't use a controller at all.) If PS5 winds up with a software-level, system-wide remapping to compromise with Japan, that's actually a huge plus; but the truth is, some of us already consider the confirm/cancel swap a significant barrier to entry. And I wouldn't fault any PS/Xbox players for stubbornly staying away from Nintendo for the same reason, although the Switch has a software-side accommodation for this now.

(Also, intuitively, I'm not from Japan, but if you quizzed me on this blind on what X/O signify, I would have said X means cancel in just about any context that isn't a paper ballot. This notion of it being obviously mapped to confirm in the minds of the west is not as universal as one might think, and I've almost never heard that stated as a principle of UI design pertaining to anything but the PlayStation line.)

.exe said:
It's like that Switch version of Dark Souls where B is confirm and A is cancel. Almost unplayable (not even kidding lmao). My brain could not cope.

It's appalling that they still never fixed it to this day, and it's given me pause about every Switch port developed by Virtuos even though the problem has not been reported with any other title. It put me off the pre-release demo instantly. Ideally, Nintendo players should never even have to acknowledge in the back of their minds that the opposite way even exists, and the same goes for PS players in Japan. My sympathies are completely with those players, and if anything, a global swap should have gone the other way.

I'm sure this all sounds petty to multi-console owners who swap back and forth all the time, but that speaks more loudly of the blinkered perspective of the console-centric "core" market here than anything else.

Deleted member 46804 · Oct 4, 2020

QuixoticNeutral said:
Quite right. The overrepresentation of multi-console owners on this board is vastly understating just how much of a disruption this is. It's as though people who travel and drive internationally, and can easily handle both driving on the left and right, didn't understand why anyone would grumble if an auto manufacturer stopped producing vehicles with the driver's seat on a certain side.

I'm more stubborn about this than most, but as a Nintendo/PC player for most of my life, I absolutely refuse to ever capitulate to the backwards Xbox ABXY layout. (I remap everything on PC to Nintendo's way or don't use a controller at all.) If PS5 winds up with a software-level, system-wide remapping to compromise with Japan, that's actually a huge plus; but the truth is, some of us already consider the confirm/cancel swap a significant barrier to entry. And I wouldn't fault any PS/Xbox players for stubbornly staying away from Nintendo for the same reason, although the Switch has a software-side accommodation for this now.

(Also, intuitively, I'm not from Japan, but if you quizzed me on this blind on what X/O signify, I would have said X means cancel in just about any context that isn't a paper ballot. This notion of it being obviously mapped to confirm in the minds of the west is not as universal as one might think, and I've almost never heard that stated as a principle of UI design pertaining to anything but the PlayStation line.)

It's appalling that they still never fixed it to this day, and it's given me pause about every Switch port developed by Virtuos even though the problem has not been reported with any other title. It put me off the pre-release demo instantly. Ideally, Nintendo players should never even have to acknowledge in the back of their minds that the opposite way even exists, and the same goes for PS players in Japan. My sympathies are completely with those players, and if anything, a global swap should have gone the other way.

I'm sure this all sounds petty to multi-console owners who swap back and forth all the time, but that speaks more loudly of the blinkered perspective of the console-centric "core" market here than anything else.

It is hyperbole period. Anyone here can get used to the button swap in a few days max. I can appreciate the discussion around culture and sympathize with how people feel about the capitulation to the west but in the end this really is a minor change.

inpHilltr8r · Oct 4, 2020

Metal Gear broke this for me. It's a little like inverted camera controls, but easier to adapt to, I find. It's been a while since I remapped controls, but I invert every time.

Rourkey · Oct 4, 2020

Can Nintendo do this worldwide please

Hueytothe · Oct 4, 2020

Surprised so many people have trouble switching between Nintendo and other controller layouts.

Oswen · Oct 4, 2020

Too bad it's not the reverse situation, I'd have liked it more if the buttons were never switched around for the west in the first place.

OtakuCoder · Oct 4, 2020

I'm going to go ahead and guess that whoever spearheaded this decision doesn't speak much Japanese.

amoy · Oct 4, 2020

Well, this kinda sucks.

Hueytothe said:
Surprised so many people have trouble switching between Nintendo and other controller layouts.

That causes a different problem to me, because I know how the Nintendo layout converts to PS symbols, but whenever I'm playing on PC and Xbox buttons prompts come up, I still fumble with X/Y.

Kinthey · Oct 4, 2020

I wonder if the Godfall devs actually weren't aware of this. In the demo you apparently have to hold O to respawn which seems kind of unintuitive. Holding X would be more typical (for a western game)

Einchy · Oct 4, 2020

Deleted member 4179 · Oct 4, 2020

I'll always be sad that the superior layout didn't win out but the writing has been on the wall for awhile.

Dreamwriter · Oct 4, 2020

I much prefer O for select, X for cancel. But it's not a real big deal either way.

mztik · Oct 4, 2020

JaggiBaggi said:
Japanese players, the ones actually affected by this: <Righteous anger>

This thread, where most people aren't even affected by this: BRO SONY IS RIGHT JAPANESE PLAYERS ARE OVERREACTING COME ON THIS IS JUST A SMALL CHANGE YOU GET USED TO IT HAHA

Also people in this thread think it's just a PlayStation thing. This ◯ and X logic has been used for decades.

O mark - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Let's change ✓and ✘ to wrong and right, respectively, and let's see what everyone thinks.

RyougaSaotome · Oct 4, 2020

This is poo.

PS5 ends the button logic of O for accept, X for cancel for Asia/Japan [Up: Cannot reconfigure]

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