• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
I honestly think that some make it sound like a bigger issue than it really is. Yes, it would be annoying at first but not for too long. Symbols don't really matter since you never look at them. It's all about muscle memory training and it's not as difficult as some suggest.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,899
oLXjp35.gif
 

Davilmar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,264
Is there a technical reason why this couldn't be an option? I didn't mind the original Japanese button mapping, but weird to do it after several decades.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,952
Well even if they did this, when you load up a PS4 game presumably everything would be swapped again.
Unless they let you have separate settings for PS4/PS5.
Possibly I suppose, but doubt PS4 BC is considered much when designing PS5 system features, probably just a lot harder to implement than it sounds I guess.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,665
But that's how X and O are used on Sony systems in Japan and Asia. It never evolved to mean something else in Japan and Asia, it has always been part of the Tangible Symbol System where X means incorrect and O means correct.

Also A = accept, B = back. Going back and forth between a Sony system or a Nintendo system in Japan and Asia is no change. It would be like you going back and forth between an Xbox and a PS4 in the western world, no change in the button mapping. But now the unified system they have between systems will be changed after 40 years of it being the standard control scheme across many systems and many generations.

O is always, always the interact button in all RPGs, as is the A button on Nintendo systems, for example.
First of all the bolded is false; there's no tactile sensation to the symbols on the buttons at all. It is blatantly not part of this and it shows a bit of ignorance as to what it actually is which is an accessibility aid for visual impairment, something a flat symbol printed onto a button (often reinforced with an on-screen visual aid) does nothing to aid with.

Second, the underline isn't the case despite the assertion; games are not uniform in whether it's X or O to accept (although certainly the majority do follow the convention). In the console UI, sure, but at a game level it varies (e.g. Call of Duty and Division retain X to confirm) which is precisely why it's bad not to have a global standard that can then hopefully make it easier for a remapping at a global level.
 

horkrux

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,710
First they're fucking over Europeanhos with obscenely high prices, now they're fucking over Japaneros with this.
Sony out there making lots of enemies these days. Are arrogant Sony back?
 

NeoKnight

Member
Oct 28, 2017
651
Finally. About time. Only 1 left then.

Dear Nintendo, please Switch this shit in your next system/revision.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,791
Feels grossly symbolic. PlayStation feels less and less like a Japanese brand and product unfortunately.
They already started making it a western brand when they moved the HQ to California and began forcing niche Japanese devs to censor games with no clear guidelines, sometimes conflicting with things that were allowed in other games released around the same time. The transition is complete now.
 

Deleted member 26156

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,579
Having "X", a letter that highly resembles cropping something out, which highly correlates to negating or removing something, often because its wrong, be associated with "confirm" is one of the most flat-out backwards decisions possible. It's baffling.
 

d3ckard

Member
Dec 7, 2017
212
So they have a consistency problem and instead of adding one system level API to provide accept/cancel button assignments and have this customizable AND consistent, they went for just consistent. Out of two possible choices they picked out one that is symbolically wrong, against tradition of its home country and different from the second biggest player(Nintendo). I really don't see a point of this decision.
 

Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,868
They already started making it a western brand when they moved the HQ to California and began forcing niche Japanese devs to censor games with no clear guidelines, sometimes conflicting with things that were allowed in other games released around the same time. The transition is complete now.
This.
While I agree the reaction is childish at best, if you think Sony would make console that caters Japan anymore after enforcing their guidelines to games there, you'd be mistaken. Personally I have no issue jumping from Switch to PS4 where the buttons are swapped so I believe people will get used to this change in couple of minutes to an hour.
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,062
I feel bad for my Japanese friends, especially after 4 generations, now trying to adapt to OK meaning cancel.
Sony focusing so much on the NA market where they make the most money now.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,465
I prefer the Japanese layout so this is annoying.

It should be a setting. X to me will always mean wrong/exit. I'm not sure how x became confirm in the first place, I guess it's from the putting x in a box to vote?
 

Firima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,469
Honestly the reason why I stopped buying SRW on PS4. Having to switch back and forth was aggravating, whereas everything was unified on Switch.
 

Ottaro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,524
A lot of people saying folks will just adapt quickly and get over it in no time... have yall ever played a flying game that you couldn't invert the flight controls to what you've always been familiar with? Muscle memory for inputs runs deep and can make it maddening for quite a while.

I dont think I ever adjusted to 3D all-stars mario sunshine's aiming before beating the game.
 

Virtua King

Member
Dec 29, 2017
3,972
Good, even though I had no problem adjusting with imports, the SEGA layout is the best layout. Now only if Nintendo would get with the program.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,875
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
I don't like it, but I get it. They shouldn't have changed it in the west all those years ago, but they did, so that's a moot point now in 2020. If you want to address the discrepancy today, and make it the same across the world, you'll want to inconvenience the least amount of people, which unfortunately means throwing the Japanese players under the bus. Not only do the make up the smallest piece of that pie in this equation, Sony don't even have a ton of marketshare there any more. This move will certainly not help, but given that the Playstation brand if flourishing everywhere else, I don't think they would care all that much.
 

Jimmypython

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,533
It doesn't impact me but I don't like the decision. Why can't they just add an improved button mapping function?
 

b00_thegh0st

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,017
I prefer the Japanese layout so this is annoying.

It should be a setting. X to me will always mean wrong/exit. I'm not sure how x became confirm in the first place, I guess it's from the putting x in a box to vote?

My theory is that someone once thought that western hands were bigger than eastern ones and so they needed to place the confirm button farther from the edge of the controller. I prefer rightmost button to be confirm since I grew up on Nintendo consoles and played mostly Japanese import games during psone days.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,409
People will get used to it. It was jarring at first when I got a Switch and had to get used to opposite button schemes for accept/cancel after being more comfortable and familiar with how it is on PS/Xbox. Took me about a day or two to get accustomed to it.
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
F* no :((((((((((((((((((((((((((
なめとんかいソニー

First no color , then no circle

bye bye red circle validation , blue circle cancellation
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,470
Interesting, I wonder why they switched the Japanese way and not the Western one.

Especially since to us, it's just an X button and circle button, but to the Japanese it actually has cultural signifiance.

Imagine if the two buttons said "Yes" and "No", but now they made "Yes" mean "No" and "No" mean "Yes". It's true that people will adapt but you can see why that would be annoying.
 

Fawz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,657
Montreal
I'm not sure how impactful this will be for players, but I'm glad we're moving towards a more unified set-up as it does create some headaches on the dev side. In the end all games should have proper button remapping, and system level OS options offering the option to swap them (As it does on Xbox) helps too
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
I prefer the Japanese layout so this is annoying.

It should be a setting. X to me will always mean wrong/exit. I'm not sure how x became confirm in the first place, I guess it's from the putting x in a box to vote?
It's where your thumb naturally rests. It makes the most sense for that to be the confirm button.
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
I'm not sure how impactful this will be for players, but I'm glad we're moving towards a more unified set-up as it does create some headaches on the dev side. In the end all games should have proper button remapping, and system level OS options offering the option to swap them (As it does on Xbox) helps too

Fot the Japanese players, very. (well for me it is anyway)
It's why the PS1 controller design button was as it was ... red circle, blue cross
this photwee illustrates
ejf_1ksxsaar3uvroj95.jpg


it's a bit like if you had a button with a green tick and a red "forbidden" sign and you are told for unification the forbidden sign is now validation
But hey, the new boss is a western representative, and the colors have disappeared... so yeah... time to transition.
 
Last edited:

b00_thegh0st

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,017
It's where your thumb naturally rests. It makes the most sense for that to be the confirm button.

I'm pretty sure we've been here already. My thumb doesn't rest naturally on the button at the bottom of the controller. It all depends on the size of your hand, thumb, which console you've been accustomed too, etc... Coming from the SNES and early PS1 days, X as confirm feels out of place.
 

Calvinien

Banned
Jul 13, 2019
2,970
I have been doing a lot of retro gaming recently, and it is kindof amazing how bad sony has been about keeping consistent UI navigation buttons.

Xbox and nintendo pretty much always go for A is forward, B is back (although nintendo puts B in the opposite place). Hell, even when the hardware people at microsoft clearly wanted the start and select buttons to do all the menu work, and even labeled select as 'Back', I cannot recall a single instance of devs not using the standard A/B configuration.

On ps1 you have X for confirm, and O for back. Except in FF games and I think metal gear where it is reversed. But then you have those games early in the console's life like warhawk and tiny tank where triangle is back. Things got more standardized with the ps2 and ps3 but then the ps4 throws a monkey wrench in everything . When you set that system up, R2 is forward. And then you have the bit where there is no more select button and instead there is a share button where it should be, with the central touch panel functioning alternately as start, select or as both....with options being whatever the touch pad is not...unless the touchpad is both, then it is a duplicate. And then you have those games where the start and select functionality seems to be swapped (Wild Hunt comes to mind.). Not sony's fault but it exacerbates the problem they have created.

That the guys who created the simple yet awesome UI that was the original XMB (a UI so good microsoft's next gen xbox UI is essentially just a vertical version of it) would be this scatterbrained about something as basic as what button does what continues to vex me to no end.

So long story less long, this is a good thing. Consistency is key in UI. I don't have an issue on nintendo ro microsoft consoles because their navigation is consistent, even if it is the opposite of each other. I just switch from nintendo mode to xbox mode. It honestly doens't matter WHICH configuration sony picks, as long as the pick one. I'd personally go more with O for forward since they are a japanese company and that was the intention of the guy who created those symbols which are arguably the most iconic emblems of the playstation brand. But he also wanted the square button to be for statistics and nobody ever uses that so I suppose he can take another hit.

(fun fact, an original prototype for the ps1 pad had a 6 button configuration, with + and - buttons which could almost certainly have nipped this issue in the bud. I'm still sad they abandoned that configuration. That would have been amazing for fighters. )
IffzBhm.jpg
 

Deleted member 35631

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 8, 2017
1,139
It's going to be a nightmare!!!.......... for like a week while people adjust and then it will be a non-issue for the rest of time.
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
It's going to be a nightmare!!!.......... for like a week while people adjust and then it will be a non-issue for the rest of time.
Yaah, all in all we adjust to anything, hell there were games i played where left veered right and vice versa xD
And it will bring some cohesion for people playing imports, unlike PS4 when games would have circle as validation in their UI but cross is the one for saves.
 

cvxfreak

DINO CRISIS SUX
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
945
Tokyo
As one of those uh..Japanese gamers, it's not a biggie. Already used to switching around with PC etc.

Must admit it's getting a bit amusing for others to fight our own battles for us.

Also tiring and a little belittling.

Oh great, it's one of those people who thinks they speak for everyone.

I was careful with my vocabulary with words like "many" (as opposed to "all") and "may" (as opposed to "will").

Also, Japanese people don't own their language. Many non-Japanese who've expressed concerns about this live in Japan like native-born people, speak the language and function every day like the average Japanese person. This affects them as much as it does anyone else. That you used the word "others" in your post to dismiss my commentary is emblematic of the well-documented xenophobia that people here in Japan have to deal with.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
got news about the evolution of controllers for you buddy
There's been no evolution when it comes to PlayStation's face buttons, that's the point. They made an incorrect decision and for more than 2 decades they have had different buttons for different actions depending on the region, which is dumb.

They should have put X on the right and circle at the bottom, but it's too late for that.
 

Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
Looking at my XBO controller, it's a green A in the bottom position and a red B to the right. Standard Western thought surrounding yes/no questions, have them as yes/no and not no/yes. So hitting "A" to confirm (where the "X" on a PlayStation controller is), ascribes to the Western logic of left-to-right reading, of A being primary to B, and of green being affirmative to red's negative.

The PlayStation controller is laid out in a Japanese right-to-left format, where the negative X is secondary.

I think if we had a Western controller where we had a diamond with a green circle in the bottom position, and a red X in the right position, we'd associate "X" with no. X is associated with no in Western culture, too. There are instances of X being affirmative in the West, like "sign at the X" or "vote with an X," but you see X also used to indicate wrong answers or failures, as contrasted with the checkmark. Plus the Circle, X, Triangle, Square pictogram of "one stroke," "two strokes," "three strokes," and "four strokes" also reinforces the circle with a value of one as taking primacy over an X with a value of two.

I think the problem lies less with the X than with the circle in Japanese doing the duty of the checkmark in the West.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,080
Halifax, NS
First of all the bolded is false; there's no tactile sensation to the symbols on the buttons at all. It is blatantly not part of this and it shows a bit of ignorance as to what it actually is which is an accessibility aid for visual impairment, something a flat symbol printed onto a button (often reinforced with an on-screen visual aid) does nothing to aid with.

Tactile sensation isn't a requirement for a tangible symbol system, simply the association of a object/image to a concept.

It makes sense that when you have been culturally engrained to associate the concept of an O to mean affirmation/positive, and the X to mean rejection/negative, that you don't need to then reintroduce the concept when someone is first exposed to video games. They should intuitively look at the controller, see "O" and "X", and be able to parse which one is probably the positive/confirm and which one is negative/go back. Instead now they're being told the opposite is true for this one case, something that I'm sure people "can" learn to deal with, but still seems ultimately unnecessary to change.

So I honestly don't know what you're going on about because tangible symbol systems are specifically designed for people with general communication issues, not just visual issues. It's literally built around the idea that you need to be able to see the symbols to interpret them for a number of examples, with tactile only being needed when visual issues are brought in.

Looking at my XBO controller, it's a green A in the bottom position and a red B to the right. Standard Western thought surrounding yes/no questions, have them as yes/no and not no/yes. So hitting "A" to confirm (where the "X" on a PlayStation controller is), ascribes to the Western logic of left-to-right reading, of A being primary to B, and of green being affirmative to red's negative.

Button colors were really inconsistent over the years, until companies either abandoned them or stuck with the Microsoft layout.

The Super Famicom controller had A as Red, B as Yellow, Y as Green and X as Blue, with B being bottom and A being right.

N64/Gamecube used A = Green, B = Red and C= Yellow in their unique layouts.

PS1 (and onwards) used O = Red, X = Blue, Triangle = Green, and Square = Purple.

Dreamcast controller was A = Red, B = Blue, Y = Green and X = Yellow, and swapped the X/Y and A/B positions relative to the SNES (so A was bottom). The color scheme actually lines up with the PS line when you think about how it functions in japan, but in the wrong (i.e western) positions.

Xbox controller had A = Green, B= Red, Y=Yellow and X=Blue, but kept the Dreamcast layout (A bottom, Y top), and it seems they're the last holdouts.
 
Last edited:

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
There seems to be a concerted effort to concentrate power in the West with this console. With PS4 having remappable buttons I'm hopeful this can be changed at the system level. But still weird timing to make this change now.