My apologies, wasn't trying to call you out. Seeking info like everyone else.
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PS5 Displays SDR Content in HDR Container
- Thread starter Psychotron
- Start date
My apologies, wasn't trying to call you out. Seeking info like everyone else.
A lot of people like putting their video settings to be in Vivid mode and have motion interpolation on. That doesn't make it good or correct.
Obviously, but I'm going to give DF staff the benefit of the doubt over people who leave their TV on factory settings.
Not saying that based on the info we have I'm not hesitant about this, but you're talking about people who have had multiple videos about how great the lost art of CRT televisions is.
Look, I respect DF a lot, especially John and Rich but that doesn't mean they're all knowing about every aspect. There's a reason they had to bring in outside help to discuss HDR in the past. HDR is not their specialty area and it has never been. This is an issue with HDR and color space.
Yeah, sounds like John, Rich and Alex. They don't know motion interpolation from color temperature, mirite.
The point is just because someone likes something does not mean they are correct.
Point is you compared them to an average consumer who might not know better.
What you're saying is you'd rather have objective measurements of accuracy instead of opining, experts or no. I feel you.
So...I am a noob regarding image/color quality, for me is this a good or bad thing? Richard from Digital Foundry liked, but I would like to hear more opinions.
Curious to see how this looks, I've seen HDR content run on SDR screens and it looked awful and oversaturated. I don't know if this is the same, but if DF say they like it, I'm not concerned (also because I can disable it).
John and Rich are not experts when it comes to HDR though. They've brought in EvilBoris just to discuss HDR before. So while they're experts in several areas with game performance, etc, HDR is not an area where they are at this point. That doesn't mean they don't know anything about HDR. I just don' t think we should be treating them as gospel about it.
I get what you are saying but at the same time I consider them to be pretty particular about how things look, and if they like it I probably would too. Comparing it to motion smoothing seems disingenuous.
It's the same, it's a post processing effect. You may like one better than the other but a lot of people disable all post processing effects like interpolation or DTM in HDR because they like the source straight unchanged.
At the end, some people may like it, some not, that's cool! I bet a lot of people will like it, the issue is here is not that the option is present, but that there's no way to change it. This is the oversight in Sony's part.
I agree the option would be better, but motion smoothing drastically warps what you are seeing, this according to them does not seem to do that.
Whether or not you like it is going to be subjective, but it will result in an objectively inaccurate image when viewing SDR content.
What Richard was saying was about the UI anyway which from what he said, was designed for HDR. I'm OK with that.
Ideally, I'd like it to go back to SDR for SDR games, so it would have the second of black screen when going that way rather than for HDR with the PS4. Maybe the other way around to get better energy savings compared to using HDR mode, but either way is fine. The UI will have an SDR mode anyway, so bringing up the interface shouldn't be an issue even in SDR games.
Ideally, I'd like it to go back to SDR for SDR games, so it would have the second of black screen when going that way rather than for HDR with the PS4. Maybe the other way around to get better energy savings compared to using HDR mode, but either way is fine. The UI will have an SDR mode anyway, so bringing up the interface shouldn't be an issue even in SDR games.
I hope there is a switch in the settings to turn this off. I don't mind the black screen for half a second while using my Apple TV while it switches between SDR and HDR. At least apple added this quickly after the critique . 🤷
I'm not sure if this is why my HDMI 2.1 Samsung TV has been wigging out, but both consoles have been fairly weird in that port. When I wake my PS5 from rest mode, it goes completely washed out and can't be fixed without a full reboot. Likewise opening some games just completely ruins the display as well.
It appears at some point the HDR link between my consoles and TV is lost.
It appears at some point the HDR link between my consoles and TV is lost.
I'd be tempted to keep this option on purely for one reason: My TV has a really shitty issue where, when it switches HDR on/off, it sometimes fails the HDCP handshake and I lose signal completely, and I have to unplug my HDMI and plug it back in to fix it.
For what it's worth, I DMed someone who has a PS5 and got confirmation (finally) that the only HDR options are "Automatic" and "Off."
FWIW, that there's even an effect for John from DF to "like" is a sign that it's not a perfect SDR image in an HDR wrapper, it's doing something to the image. If it was a perfect replication like some in here are suggesting there would be nothing to see or comment on.
Does turning the HDR off then back on in the system settings fix it instead of a reboot? Not that this is a problem you should have to solve, but thinking out loud.
Does turning the HDR off then back on in the system settings fix it instead of a reboot? Not that this is a problem you should have to solve, but thinking out loud.
OP
OP
That almost implies that they intend for it to work like PS4 did – otherwise shouldn't the options be either ON or OFF? Maybe they'll fix this.
Yeah, "Automatic" is a weird way to word it when the other option is "Off". Almost feels like there's supposed to be a middle-ground "On" option, like what we're asking for.
Either way the system is automatically checking to see if your TV can accept the HDR output, or its not.
It's the same options as 1080p/24hz for video playback. It's an assumption, but it's probably worded that way to avoid having people turn it on and getting a busted image. PS3 allowed you to select 24hz playback even if your TV couldn't do it, and you would just get a blank screen for example.
I'm pretty sure those are the same options as what you see on a PS4, except the PS4 is accurate in that it automatically only enables HDR when you want to display HDR content.
Turning it off and then on tells me that my TV isn't HDR compatible or something to that effect. Definitely doesn't work. Only thing that works is limiting the bandwidth (a new option) that disables HDR. It's so odd.[/QUOTE]
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Instead of switching the HDR off for SDR content it leaves it on and attempts to make it look normal by altering the image.
Microsoft is using machine learning to approximate what HDR would look like and outputting that to the user. Sony is tone mapping the SDR picture and outputting it in HDR or basically just outputting a really bright image without taking into account highlights and picture accuracy.
Edit: Or to put it a different way, Sony is basically just jacking up the brightness the same way you would do it through settings on your TV.
So if I turn off HDR in games like Destiny 2 that do HDR poorly, the PS5 will be leaving system level HDR enabled?
This may be a dumb question but I just got a 4K hdr monitor Friday and I'm not tech savvy at all. When it's running in hdr I seemingly cannot change any settings like brightness or color temp, which I assume is on purpose. So does that mean on ps5 if I'm playing an old game without hdr it'll run on my monitor in hdr and use those automatic hdr settings?
Yes.
Most monitors aren't good at HDR, and even the ones that are decent are still typically not up to par with TVs. There are a lot of monitors that claim to be HDR compatible but they're kinda lying. They can take the signal but not really display it well. So it really depends on what monitor you have.
To answer your question, yes if you're playing a PS4 game without HDR on your PS5, if you don't turn off HDR on the PS5 then your monitor will think an HDR signal is coming in even though it's trying to map a SDR display to it.
Not dumb at all. It will output in HDR and use the monitor's HDR settings. It is strange you can't mess with settings while in HDR on the monitor. Which monitor did you get?
Bear in mind that while DF mentioned it, you can bet that every single person who's previewing PS5 right now has seen it too. And not a one of them thought it was worth even mentioning. So it's clearly not the "worst case scenario" that many of you are yammering on about.
8-bit to 10-bit conversion is straight 1:4. Black is black and white is white. The only difference will be your TV's calibration for HDR content. For my TV, the only difference is the backlight, and it's not that much brighter than its normal mode. I doubt I would even notice anything if DF hadn't mentioned it and everyone here started panicking about it.
8-bit to 10-bit conversion is straight 1:4. Black is black and white is white. The only difference will be your TV's calibration for HDR content. For my TV, the only difference is the backlight, and it's not that much brighter than its normal mode. I doubt I would even notice anything if DF hadn't mentioned it and everyone here started panicking about it.
This is a pure presumption on your part. We know what Microsoft is doing and how they are achieving it because they marketed and detailed it. We don't know what Sony's version entails or how they are going about their own implementation. You and others are essentially assuming without any evidence.
It could be as you described, or it could be more complex, using a more nuanced or individualistic tone mapping approximation or algorithm based on each source, game, piece of media or whatever.
When the PS4 displays SDR content in HDR, it's patently obvious, everything looks way too oversaturated and blown out. Not one single journalist or influencer has complained about this sort of thing happening with the PS5 when playing SDR content, which suggests the implementation in the PS5 is different. Hell, even EvilBoris (the HDR expert) suggested it is different.
So how about before jumping to worst case assumptions or conclusions based on zero evidence, and infact against current impressions, we instead wait for actual testing?
Asus tuf vg289
when hdr is on all the presets and most options are greyed out.
My Asus TUF monitor has an horrible HDR implementation that is fixed to ridiculously bad settings as well
Your monitor isn't really capable of HDR. It can take the signal but it can't really display it properly. I would leave it off.
If that's the only difference between SDR and HDR on your TV then your HDR mode is likely far from accurate so it's not really pertinent. Even if it was just a slight difference in backlighting (it's not if your display is properly calibrated), that's still an inaccuracy caused by a 100% unnecessary "feature".
And yeah nobody's called this out, but most people are completely unaware of how bad their TV settings are so of course they aren't going to notice. In fact they probably thinks it looks good since a brighter over-saturated image "pops". For anyone who values accuracy however this is a really stupid oversight.
That being said, we should be able to disable HDR in the system settings if we're playing SDR content, so... it's not like we can't get around it. That shouldn't be necessary though.
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Don't take my word for it. Digital Foundry is where the info comes from. According to them they are just tone mapping to HDR. That's it.
Actually just forget what I said. Just go with what Darknight said and just turn the HDR off.
There's a lot that can happen in that process and in terms of differentiating results.