This only happens to me when I switch between rbg and ycbcr. If I keep both both sdr and hdr in ycbcr, it's very close on my LG c8. At least they way I calibrated. Things become screwy when I use custom res like 3200x1800 etc.
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PS5 Displays SDR Content in HDR Container
- Thread starter Psychotron
- Start date
That's kinda what I meant, lol. Since SDR content will be displayed at maximum brightness, the solution will be either to disable HDR at system level while playing SDR content, or to constantly manage the TVs brightness.
Either way is annoying. I hope Sony corrects this.
That is one of the problems with basically trying to reinvent the wheel and rebuilding your UI from scratch, since the PS5 seems to be lacking so many options at launch.
Gotcha. It is really annoying. In my case it takes less button presses to lower the brightness so I guess I'll be doing that but it's a matter of picking your poison. Both alternatives are less than ideal.
Not only brigthness, you are also max cranking Contrast, which isn't necessary accurate in every TV. You are not tonemapping an SDR image like an HDR, selecting differents nits for each highlight, you are just cranking the whole picture to max brigthness. This means, an SDR image, mastered at 100 nits (wich is say, 30 OLED Light on an LG OLED) will be blasted to max, in OLED Light 100 around 800 nits. It's a massive overbrigthness, and with that also a faster pixel wearing in an OLED.
QLED owners will probably have their retinas burned lol but they won't have pixel wear problems atleast.
Yeah, both consoles manufacturers approaches have their pros and cons. Series X feels mostly feature complete, at the expense of your shiny new toy not feeling all that new when it boots up for the first time (and I think the interface is way too busy personally), Sony taking the fresh and new approach, but not having features out of the box (and some annoying design decisions mind you. Cards on my trophy list, no thank you).
Either way, I'm hoping they're listening to things like this and they'll see the telemetry, so they'll hopefully be able to do some quick iteration.
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Yeah I wasn't a fan of my Fire Stick 4K permanently enabling HDR, forcing me to have it on even using Kodi, or watching any content that isn't HDR. I'd rather deal with the slight amount of time it takes to toggle. That is unless I'm misunderstanding and having HDR always on isn't going to screw with non HDR content, given my HDR is property calibrated (which it isn't professionally, only through my research of settings).
Well, sounds like good enough confirmation for me being right to not want HDR always on.
Apple TV 4K added the option for have it match dynamic range and frame rates shortly after launch.
does it switch color profiles too? actually I don't know if you could have Rec2020 in sdr mode.
Well the TV would be doing that no?
What I meant is that the ATV will tell the TV to switch. Standard procedure.
I don't see the problem. I am 100% in favor of this.
If SDR content looks wrong/different in HDR mode compared to SDR then the TV isn't setup right. That's it.
It's trivial to precisely map SDR content to an HDR signal without any loss of data, things like peak SDR brightness are well defined and reproducible in HDR. If the TV is setup correctly they should look *identical*.
This is the case in windows HDR on my monitor - toggling HDR I see absolutely no difference in SDR content even though the signal changes format.
If anything this should result in SDR content looking more correct for most users, as the HDR spec is quite explicit in how it is interpreted and most decent TVs don't mess with it anywhere near like they do with SDR e.g. nonsense vivid modes etc.
If SDR content looks wrong/different in HDR mode compared to SDR then the TV isn't setup right. That's it.
It's trivial to precisely map SDR content to an HDR signal without any loss of data, things like peak SDR brightness are well defined and reproducible in HDR. If the TV is setup correctly they should look *identical*.
This is the case in windows HDR on my monitor - toggling HDR I see absolutely no difference in SDR content even though the signal changes format.
If anything this should result in SDR content looking more correct for most users, as the HDR spec is quite explicit in how it is interpreted and most decent TVs don't mess with it anywhere near like they do with SDR e.g. nonsense vivid modes etc.
That is incorrect. Here is a professional calibrator going through two Apple TV boxes on the same model of TV, one with HDR wrapper, and one in match content mode.
You're right in that the way the HDR spec is made, it should look right. But in every implementation on the TV this has been done so far, it just simply doesn't.
It might be faster to disable/enable it on tv.
That is what I will be doing.
This is awful. It was awful on the Apple TV 4K when they forced it too, it made SDR content look gross.
John's wrong lol
Personally for games I don't care and I don't use my PS for media, so I'll leave it on to eliminate the black screen. I have this feature turned off on my Apple TV because for movies and anime and such, it's annoying. Hopefully they allow you to turn this off like the Apple TV does for those who use the PS5 as a media device.
AIUI, using a HDR container should be fine if your TV is calibrated. There's no loss of accuracy by putting a smaller number in a variable that can potentially hold larger numbers.
The loss of accuracy would come from the tone mapping, i.e. if they're doing some Auto HDR process to stretch the SDR content across the full range available for HDR.
The loss of accuracy would come from the tone mapping, i.e. if they're doing some Auto HDR process to stretch the SDR content across the full range available for HDR.
This is probably fine for those who don't ever use their game consoles for stuff other than gaming. I already have separate equipment for watching videos since I don't use streaming services, and I'll probably just use my PS5 for watching 4k HDR Blu-Rays specifically.
The black screen transition for HDR content on the PS4 wasn't really that big of an issue so I don't understand why Sony doesn't at least add an option to behave more like that. If I was planning on using my PS5 for other media, I'd be very irate, because like others in this thread, my TV also behaves differently with SDR content and itself helps to improve the image a lot on its own.
There was a period where the post-processing done on fancier LED TVs was mostly crap, but with the one I have today I vastly prefer its post-processing, which even works pretty well in Game mode. I am not a huge enthusiast for TVs so I imagine this is similar for other TV owners who aren't huge sticklers for highly accurate color reproduction. If I was in this situation with a top of the line OLED TV that had nice post processing for SDR, I'd be very irate with Sony right now.
Correct doesn't really mean better. Unless you're a content creator deliberately working in specific colorspaces, you don't need perfectly precise color repro. The vivid modes people decry are preferences some people prefer. I especially prefer anime with boosted dynamic range and vivid colors from post-processing on my TV.
The black screen transition for HDR content on the PS4 wasn't really that big of an issue so I don't understand why Sony doesn't at least add an option to behave more like that. If I was planning on using my PS5 for other media, I'd be very irate, because like others in this thread, my TV also behaves differently with SDR content and itself helps to improve the image a lot on its own.
There was a period where the post-processing done on fancier LED TVs was mostly crap, but with the one I have today I vastly prefer its post-processing, which even works pretty well in Game mode. I am not a huge enthusiast for TVs so I imagine this is similar for other TV owners who aren't huge sticklers for highly accurate color reproduction. If I was in this situation with a top of the line OLED TV that had nice post processing for SDR, I'd be very irate with Sony right now.
Correct doesn't really mean better. Unless you're a content creator deliberately working in specific colorspaces, you don't need perfectly precise color repro. The vivid modes people decry are preferences some people prefer. I especially prefer anime with boosted dynamic range and vivid colors from post-processing on my TV.
This not true if you're still playing PS4 games through backwards compatibility. Many of those games will still be in SDR.
Ahh, that is true, I didn't even think about that. That's a huge bummer and now this is a big problem for me, because I intend to get rid of my launch PS4 and play my existing disc library on my PS5. I quite like what my TV does with my PS4 SDR games right now, although I primarily play games on my PC.
Yeah, not a fan of this at all, SDR should be left for a colour accurate SDR mode and I've got no idea to see HDR highlights in the OS.
It's all well and good saying that you just need to calibrate the HDR mode to produce an accurate SDR image but that is incredibly difficult for even professional calibrators to do. For mere mortals like myself we rely on the colour accurate SDR mode built into a modern TV and out of the box HDR modes are not going to get close to matching that for SDR content. For the vast majority of users this is just a straight up downgrade in image quality to avoid a split second flash when changing modes which no one complained about in the first place. It's mimicking the Windows 10 implementation which is almost universally hated.
HDR highlights in the OS screen offers no practical benefit to me, but it does potentially offer an increased risk of burn in on OLED screens, so again, please give the option of leaving the OS in SDR. Sony had this all figured out on the PS4, they didn't need to "fix" it, it wasn't ever broken.
It's all well and good saying that you just need to calibrate the HDR mode to produce an accurate SDR image but that is incredibly difficult for even professional calibrators to do. For mere mortals like myself we rely on the colour accurate SDR mode built into a modern TV and out of the box HDR modes are not going to get close to matching that for SDR content. For the vast majority of users this is just a straight up downgrade in image quality to avoid a split second flash when changing modes which no one complained about in the first place. It's mimicking the Windows 10 implementation which is almost universally hated.
HDR highlights in the OS screen offers no practical benefit to me, but it does potentially offer an increased risk of burn in on OLED screens, so again, please give the option of leaving the OS in SDR. Sony had this all figured out on the PS4, they didn't need to "fix" it, it wasn't ever broken.
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The bigger issue try to get things right is that those SDR games use a gamma formula and HDR uses the PQ EOTF , these 2 methods are entirely incompatible, so matching them exactly can't really happen.
^This is why why HLG was created as a HDR format for broadcast, as it is backwards compatible within SDR.
I'm hoping that the reason they have done this is forward planning for the dashboard- you have to cut the ties to the past at some point.
Modern TVs can usually seamless switch in and out of HDR without the blanking you see. If you've used Netflix in a built in TV app it will switch between HDR/SDR as you move across the title images. It's really obvious if you have different colour temperatures set!
The blanking itself is a part of how HDMI 2.0 works.
There are a lot of ?'s and possibilities for what can be right and wrong with this , so I need to spend more time looking at it.
Why is it always like this at the launch of a console? It seems like a company is getting everything ready for launch and suddenly thinks "Hey, we need an OS for this system too!"
Does that mean everything running on PS5 will always be in HDR mode on TVs?
Would be good if you could turn the emulated HDR off but have proper HDR on
Would be good if you could turn the emulated HDR off but have proper HDR on
Yeah, that's how Apple TV does it. Hopefully they add in an option at some point soon.
They know what they need and want in advance, but they usually can't have everything at launch, so they pick the essentia things and add others later.
Thanks. I was just wondering how you'd go about setting up a TV like the LG CX for non-HDR if the PS5 was always outputting HDR! First world problems, I don't even have the TV yet!
I guess you'd set it up with a PS4 or something.
Just turn off HDR in the PS5 settings when needed. The TV profiles are by input and by SDR/HDR, so you get the settings different for both and you won't affect the other inputs on your TV.
I'm also concerned about this.
It's one thing to have "auto HDR" for BC games as a dedicated feature that's still managed and tested by Microsoft for all the games, but it's a whole different thing to have the whole console in "fake" HDR all the time for all content no matter what.
That will definitely give me anxiety every time I boot a real HDR thing up and think "does it switch from fake HDR to real HDR now? Did it work? Did the console recognized the switch?"
Cause right now we have something similar on our current consoles with Netflix and it's a problem and broken for 2 years. Netflix on the current consoles on 4K HDR TVs is always in HDR, no matter what content you play and this leads to real HDR content staying and starting in the fake HDR mode cause it doesn't switch over, exactly what I'm scared off for the games.
It's one thing to have "auto HDR" for BC games as a dedicated feature that's still managed and tested by Microsoft for all the games, but it's a whole different thing to have the whole console in "fake" HDR all the time for all content no matter what.
That will definitely give me anxiety every time I boot a real HDR thing up and think "does it switch from fake HDR to real HDR now? Did it work? Did the console recognized the switch?"
Cause right now we have something similar on our current consoles with Netflix and it's a problem and broken for 2 years. Netflix on the current consoles on 4K HDR TVs is always in HDR, no matter what content you play and this leads to real HDR content staying and starting in the fake HDR mode cause it doesn't switch over, exactly what I'm scared off for the games.
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You've got to be kidding. SDR in an HDR wrapper is absolutely awful. The whole reason why I'm leaning toward going back to console from PC for next gen is convenience. Having to turn HDR on/off at a system level on a per-game basis is so, so bad.
Do we have confirmation that the XSX actually matches dynamic range correctly? I know it had auto HDR, but I assumed that was an option. (and one that I would turn off)
Do we have confirmation that the XSX actually matches dynamic range correctly? I know it had auto HDR, but I assumed that was an option. (and one that I would turn off)
I don't know about the dynamic range, haven't seen it mentioned, but I have seen the Auto HDR in the settings and it can be turned off.
Some of the implementations of Auto HDR on the XSX are quite nice and others not so much, so I wish they would let the setting work on a per game basis. But global setting should help you out there.
He's not the only one who says it's fine for OLED.
Anyway, I'll wait to see it with my own eyeballs before judging.
Ok good. That must mean that it outputs SDR and HDR correctly depending on the game.
And I'm sure auto HDR could give some additional eye candy with some games, but I'm a PQ purist and would rather just bypass all that.
Logically makes sense but has literally never been the case.