PS5 Speculation |OT12| - Aw hell, Transistor's running this again?

SharpX68K · Mar 6, 2020

bcatwilly said:
I am not speaking to the legitimacy of this, but I don't recall seeing this on here.

$300 would be the right price for Lockhart / Series S, as any higher than that would make it a terrible value, if PS5/XSX are $500.

However, if Sony manages to sell PS5 at $400, then Series X is going to look bad even at $300. I don't think PS5 will be $400 though, I think it'll be $500.

Jaypah · Mar 6, 2020

Secretofmateria said:
lends credence to the series X= 500, PS5=400, and Series S=300 dollar line of thinking.

That isn't the most reliable source but Sony would kill in that scenario.

KOHIPEET · Mar 6, 2020

sncvsrtoip said:
lets do this

A chance to restore my former "glory". Count me in.

modiz · Mar 6, 2020

anexanhume said:
Not a bummer. These are hugely detailed textures.

Miniature Kaiju said:
Dev friend says it's about 20x the average pixel density he's worked with.

Woah.
I know that usually games assets are being developed at a significantly higher resolution than what the player ends up seeing, does this increased texel density also effect current gen games if patched to utilize this higher density?

Jonnax · Mar 6, 2020

Maybe Lockhart is a way to get better yield on the Xbox platforms. So they can be cheaper than Sony who only has one platform.

thuway · Mar 6, 2020

modiz said:
Woah.
I know that usually games assets are being developed at a significantly higher resolution than what the player ends up seeing, does this increased texel density also effect current gen games if patched to utilize this higher density?

NO wonder they are going for 100 GB discs

Jaypah · Mar 6, 2020

thuway said:
What?

Your post read more like a definitive statement rather than a guess or a desire.

anexanhume · Mar 6, 2020

Miniature Kaiju said:
Dev friend says it's about 20x the average pixel density he's worked with.

Imagine The Order 1886 sequel with that kind of texture density. Yes I liked TO1886.

meenseen84 · Mar 6, 2020

Expy said:
He said aiming higher than the number, not performance metric.

Funny you remember that but not that he said afterward that he has no idea what the specs are or how many teraflops there will be, but that he heard that everything is twice as powerful.

III-V · Mar 6, 2020

AegonSnake said:
Nah a simple team github vs team klee would do.

if team klee loses and ps5 is 9.2 tflops then we wear whatever avatars they pick.
If team github loses and ps5 is double digits then they wear klee's avatar until Launch and write a poem as an apology to klee.

lmao

Muppet of a Man · Mar 6, 2020

thuway said:
Gonna be a fun day when you guys find out ps5 AND XSX are within a TF of each other and all this arguing and evangelizing Github was dumb

This. The best bet is that they are nearly identical in terms of power if both are targeting $499.99 as a price point.

If PS5 is targeting $399.99, then the 9.2 TF figure could be true.

KOHIPEET · Mar 6, 2020

anexanhume said:
Imagine The Order 1886 sequel with that kind of texture density. Yes I liked TO1886.

That's a good thing I guess?

Dirtyshubb · Mar 6, 2020

Expy said:
lol

Obviously fake. No idea who created it.

And original source:

Easy allies did a 'draw what the PS5 will look like' segment and multiple people came up with that design too lol.

GraceOfGod · Mar 6, 2020

Isayas said:
Wait, you think Sony are shook of Microsoft releasing their specs? So they want to take their time to sell us the PS5 with 9.2 TF?

Not at all. The most likely case to me is they just have other stuff they are working on and there is no need for them to say anything. I was more countering the idea that if MS felt weaker, they would go first. I think thats BS and they would only go first if they were very confident. That says NOTHING about Sony. MS can be confident and Sony can have the same or better specs. MS seemed confident in 2013 at $100 more and terrible messaging.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 6, 2020

anexanhume said:
Imagine The Order 1886 sequel with that kind of texture density. Yes I liked TO1886.

Thinking about a ND or Rockstar game with amount of details they put into there games.

gofreak · Mar 6, 2020

modiz said:
Woah.
I know that usually games assets are being developed at a significantly higher resolution than what the player ends up seeing, does this increased texel density also effect current gen games if patched to utilize this higher density?

A pure code patch could swap out lower res assets for higher res ones that already exist, if their streaming system is already well tuned to take advantage of the higher IO bandwidth here. But otherwise, it might require new assets and/or streaming plumbing to reach the highest heights possible in that regard... which would probably be less likely.

Convasse · Mar 6, 2020

thuway said:
What?

If you know something, say something.
Neither Github nor the insiders have been proven.
Github has actual receipts though, smudged and incomplete as they may be.
That's ground for discussion, regardless of how much trust is placed in insiders.

AndyMc1888 · Mar 6, 2020

how are people getting the series x 500 PS5 400 stuff but not that the gpu is nearly 3tf apart as that's the only way we get that kind of price difference surely ?

GraceOfGod · Mar 6, 2020

Expy said:
Do you remember what happened in 2013?

- PS4 revealed in February, specs (no price)
- XBox One revealed in May, specs (no price, weaker machine, TV TV TV, Sports Sports messaging)
- Xbox reveals price at E3 first, $499
- PS4 reveals price afterwards $399

So... Xbox controlled their messaging going 3 months after Sony? Priced better when announcing first?
None of the above.

What "repeat" are you talking about?

You just litterally laid out the scenario of what they are trying to avoid a repeat of. Once again, this says noting about how good or bad Sony's situation is. Only that microsoft THINKS it has a good plan. Of course, they thought they had a good plan last time. That does not mean its right.

zen1990x · Mar 6, 2020

-Le Monde- said:
Pls! Have a disc drive. 🥺 Definitely getting this if it's got one.

surely after the reception of the Xbox one SAD they should know this is a bad idea. It can't cost much more to put in a disc drive.

BitsandBytes · Mar 6, 2020

KOHIPEET said:
That's a good thing I guess?

I'm probably way off base but my thinking is it means much closer to CG quality in-game IQ. Or along those lines.

Brohan · Mar 6, 2020

Jonnax said:
Maybe Lockhart is a way to get better yield on the Xbox platforms. So they can be cheaper than Sony who only has one platform.

I don't think it will work that way. Firstly the gap from 12tf to 4tf is too big. Secondly it would mean that if the yields for the XsX are very good that there will be a shortage of the XsS.

WhtR88t · Mar 6, 2020

Jaypah said:
That isn't the most reliable source but Sony would kill in that scenario.

I think if the Series X is the most powerful of the 3 and Lockhart is the cheapest, it puts PS5 in a tight spot… "Xbox" is the cheapest/most powerful place to play next gen games. If they're sandwiched by Xboxes I could see it being trouble for them with some clever marketing from Microsoft.

But if PS5 and Series X are both on level footing with power and the same price, then they're alright.

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · Mar 6, 2020

PsyDec said:
Do you think digital purchasing is a foreign concept to a generation who gets every other form of entertainment digitally? Netflix? Spotify? Apps? Etc etc

No, but that generation rarely subs to all those services, and often shares logins with family, so they're not necessarily the ones paying. Hence why they'd care about getting games as cheap as they can

Midas · Mar 6, 2020

Expy said:
lol

Obviously fake. No idea who created it.

And original source:

Oh man, I would go for a PlayStation Pyramid. But seriously, how bad are people at this. Hard to know if it's a joke or if someone really think that they'll fool anyone with that.

Snake__ · Mar 6, 2020

Sony is perhaps potentially maybe in trouble in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle almost always loses with separate competing products
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

(and I mean PS3 levels of in trouble at launch not Wii U levels of fucked or anything insane like that)

the Xbox would easily sell the most consoles in the first year...in the US
Anything could happen after that

I just wish Sony would end this speculation bullshit

Jaypah · Mar 6, 2020

WhtR88t said:
I think if the Series X is the most powerful of the 3 and Lockhart is the cheapest, it puts PS5 in a tight spot… "Xbox" is the cheapest/most powerful place to play next gen games. If they're sandwiched by Xboxes I could see it being trouble for them with some clever marketing from Microsoft.

But if PS5 and Series X are both on level footing with power and the same price, then they're alright.

I think it would depend on the power difference between the 3. If PS5 is within 2TF of XSX (meaning at least 6 more TF than XS) but for just $100 off of either of MS offerings thing can get sticky fast for MS. Especially with Sony's momentum and worldwide brand appeal.

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · Mar 6, 2020

TooLive said:
??? So not having a disc drive is bad for low income consumers, which in turn make this machine dead on arrival? People of all incomes will buy both products based their individual situations and desires.

My DOA comment is probably too dramatic and I'm usually wrong about these things but used games/trading games/gifting games through family is a big deal for price sensitive consumers. So yes, I think a $300 discless model would do ok but I do think it would miss out on a substantial part of the market.

i just really hope LH doesn't come out. I'd rather they launch XSX for $500 and work it down in price over time like they've always done, sadly that won't happen since it's got "series" in the name

jroc74 · Mar 6, 2020

Jaypah said:
That isn't the most reliable source but Sony would kill in that scenario.

Yup. If it's 9tf, for $399, LH 4tf at $299 seems like a bad deal.

IMO, MS would want the PS5 to be the same price as Series X. I don't think MS wants the sandwich strategy.

Deleted member 2379 · Mar 6, 2020

zen1990x said:
surely after the reception of the Xbox one SAD they should know this is a bad idea. It can't cost much more to put in a disc drive.

?

I thought that was the highest selling single SKU over the holidays other than switch

Bunzy · Mar 6, 2020

Brohan said:
I don't think it will work that way. Firstly the gap from 12tf to 4tf is too big. Secondly it would mean that if the yields for the XsX are very good that there will be a shortage of the XsS.

If anyone is getting better prices from amd it's prob Sony. They did move more then 100 percent of amd hardware then xbox

gofreak · Mar 6, 2020

WhtR88t said:
I think if the Series X is the most powerful of the 3 and Lockhart is the cheapest, it puts PS5 in a tight spot… "Xbox" is the cheapest/most powerful place to play next gen games. If they're sandwiched by Xboxes I could see it being trouble for them with some clever marketing from Microsoft.

But if PS5 and Series X are both on level footing with power and the same price, then they're alright.

It's more complicated than just this, but this 'middle spot' is a default choice for a lot of consumers. For example, if you have a product at a particular price you want most people to go for, it can be useful to frame it as the 'best value' choice by putting one lower price option one side of it, one higher priced option on the other. The middle one doesn't become 'squeezed', it becomes the 'safe compromise' for many.

The dynamics are subject to complicating factors, but that idea - offer 3, with the one in the middle as your preferred volume driver - is a common marketing tactic/framing to drive people toward a desired product option. 'The middle' isn't necessarily a squeezed middle at all, perhaps quite the opposite.

III-V · Mar 6, 2020

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

sure they would still have great first party games but people who only play a few third party games and people who grew up with 360s wouldn't even consider the PS5

(and I mean PS3 levels of fucked not Wii U levels of fucked or anything insane like that)

the Xbox would easily sell the most consoles in the first year...in the US

wow take a breath dude. In no situation is Sony fucked. They are the market leader and people want to play games on their platform.

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · Mar 6, 2020

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

That's simply not true.

ps4 was in between Xbox One and Wii U in price, PS4 slim is and was often in between PS4 Pro/X1X and $200 Xbox One S bundles this gen too.

PsyDec · Mar 6, 2020

Jaypah said:
That isn't the most reliable source but Sony would kill in that scenario.

Why would they? This is exactly what MS want.

Aliand · Mar 6, 2020

AegonSnake said:
Nah a simple team github vs team klee would do.

if team klee loses and ps5 is 9.2 tflops then we wear whatever avatars they pick.
If team github loses and ps5 is double digits then they wear klee's avatar until Launch and write a poem as an apology to klee.

Count me in on teaml Klee if Transistor is the bet master.

Snake__ · Mar 6, 2020

bonesawisready5 said:
That's simply not true.

ps4 was in between Xbox One and Wii U in price, PS4 slim is and was often in between PS4 Pro/X1X and $200 Xbox One S bundles this gen too.

PS4 was cheaper AND more powerful than Xbox and wasn't competing with the Wii U at all

the Xbox one s did outsell the PS4 in multiple holiday seasons when it was heavily discounted to $200

Grayson · Mar 6, 2020

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

sure they would still have great first party games but people who only play a few third party games and people who grew up with 360s wouldn't even consider the PS5

(and I mean PS3 levels of fucked not Wii U levels of fucked or anything insane like that)

the Xbox would easily sell the most consoles in the first year...in the US

Sony wasn't "fucked" at $599. Breathe. They'll be just fine next gen. Ecosystem and BC assures you of that.

jroc74 · Mar 6, 2020

Gamechanger87 said:
?

I thought that was the highest selling single SKU over the holidays other than switch

And outside of holiday season?

The SAD selling well during the holidays doesn't mean it sold well overall.

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

sure they would still have great first party games but people who only play a few third party games and people who grew up with 360s wouldn't even consider the PS5

(and I mean PS3 levels of fucked not Wii U levels of fucked or anything insane like that)

the Xbox would easily sell the most consoles in the first year...in the US

Uh...they would absolutely be competitive on price and power.

9 is a bigger number than 4. 10 and it's even worse.

IMO, the sandwich strategy doesn't help MS if LH is 4tf. 6, 7 or 8...maybe.

What absolutely helps MS is if the PS5 is 499.

gofreak · Mar 6, 2020

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses

Eeeee, not true at all. The 'goldilocks effect' is a thing. Companies have juiced the sales of products by just sandwiching them between a higher cost and lower cost option, with the right mix of contrasting appeals. It depends a lot on feature contrast - and this is where Sony and MS marketers will probably furiously iterate against each other on - but the middle can be a very good place to be.

e.g.

Companies can also use G-B-B to exploit the so-called Goldilocks effect: people's propensity to choose the middle option in a set of three. In his book Priceless, William Poundstone recounts how Williams-Sonoma reaped unexpected benefits after launching a fancy bread machine priced at $429. That high-end model flopped—but sales of the $279 model (previously the highest-priced unit) nearly doubled.

The Good-Better-Best Approach to Pricing

Companies often crimp profits by using discounts to attract price-sensitive customers and by failing to give high-end customers reasons to spend more. A multitiered offering can use a stripped-down product (the “Good” option) to attract new customers, the existing product (“Better”) to keep...

hbr.org

It's way more complicated than being 'sandwiched' - this isn't a literal battlefield!

Miniature Kaiju · Mar 6, 2020

anexanhume said:
Imagine The Order 1886 sequel with that kind of texture density. Yes I liked TO1886.

Yeah, it's kinda mind-boggling. He said that assets for main characters and stuff are usually at twice the overall density, since they're the focus and often very close to the camera, but even a 10x increase in overall density would be a pretty massive jump in perceived detail.

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario
the middle always loses

That's kinda the opposite of what we usually see in marketing. As long as the middle option isn't a massive compromise in relation to the top tier, it's almost invariably seen as the better bang-for-the-buck option.

anexanhume said:
I love that your analogy is PS3 levels of fucked. The console that went on to outsell 360 WW despite the higher launch price.

And launching a whole year later. With the vast majority of its catalog looking better on the other platform.

anexanhume · Mar 6, 2020

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

sure they would still have great first party games but people who only play a few third party games and people who grew up with 360s wouldn't even consider the PS5

(and I mean PS3 levels of fucked not Wii U levels of fucked or anything insane like that)

the Xbox would easily sell the most consoles in the first year...in the US

I love that your analogy is PS3 levels of fucked. The console that went on to outsell 360 WW despite the higher launch price.

Jaypah · Mar 6, 2020

Gamechanger87 said:
?

I thought that was the highest selling single SKU over the holidays other than switch

Wasn't it also on sale for $99? I don't know if that means people want a discless Xbox more so than a really cheap Xbox. Apologies if it wasn't that price, I admittedly wasn't paying much attention at the time.

Tappin Brews · Mar 6, 2020

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

sure they would still have great first party games but people who only play a few third party games and people who grew up with 360s wouldn't even consider the PS5

(and I mean PS3 levels of fucked not Wii U levels of fucked or anything insane like that)

the Xbox would easily sell the most consoles in the first year...in the US

i think sony would be in the best position in the sandwich scenario. assuming a 9tf machine (to get to 399 in the first place!), their games will look as good as the series x games to most consumers (arguably better in some cases because god damn sony have talented teams!) and only under the careful eye of direct comparisons, such as DF, would really differences be spotted. at 399$ i think ps5 would absolutely be seen as good enough where MS's power lead wouldnt matter much AND would pull sales from cash conscious consumers. $399 could be seen as the sweet spot for many

a much harder position to be in would be a 499 ps5 (12-13tf and especially 9tf) competing against a 299 series s. thats a VERY large price difference to over come, especially if series s demonstrates next gen gaming at 1080-1440p as *promised

EvilBoris · Mar 6, 2020

anexanhume said:
I love that your analogy is PS3 levels of fucked. The console that went on to outsell 360 WW despite the higher launch price.

Yeah, it certainly did the volume.It just didn't have the revenue from subscriptions , games or hardware that the competitors had.

The value proposition is considerably different 13 years later, they certainly wouldn't be able to make the mistakes they made this tie round.
I don't think $599 is a big deal in 2020

Not when you sit it next to all of the other electronics we buy and how expensive the newest and best is relative to what else is available.

III-V · Mar 6, 2020

breaking news: PS5 to be PS3-tier levels of fucked

or

sales outlook is bright (ray traced?)

MrKlaw · Mar 6, 2020

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

sure they would still have great first party games but people who only play a few third party games and people who grew up with 360s wouldn't even consider the PS5

(and I mean PS3 levels of fucked not Wii U levels of fucked or anything insane like that)

the Xbox would easily sell the most consoles in the first year...in the US

Brand plays a big part in this and how they position things.

Sony has to Show/persuade/convince that the PS5 is worth the extra over the XSS. so XSS looks like poor value, and that it delivers an indistiinguishable experience compared to XSX that makes the XSX look overpriced.

asd202 · Mar 6, 2020

III-V said:
breaking news: PS5 to be PS3-tier levels of fucked

or

sales outlook is bright (ray traced?)

Eh honestly it depends on the stock

KOHIPEET · Mar 6, 2020

BitsandBytes said:
I'm probably way off base but my thinking is it means much closer to CG quality in-game IQ. Or along those lines.

I mean, the Ghost trailer yesterday, at parts it was borderline CG (wehn viewed far enough from the screen) so I guess we're in for a treat next-gen.

ostrichKing · Mar 6, 2020

Snake__ said:
Sony is completely fucked in the 300 400 500 scenario

the middle always loses
They wouldn't be competitive on price OR power

sure they would still have great first party games but people who only play a few third party games and people who grew up with 360s wouldn't even consider the PS5

(and I mean PS3 levels of fucked not Wii U levels of fucked or anything insane like that)

the Xbox would easily sell the most consoles in the first year...in the US

In the end...it depends on games though...and Sony has a MASSIVE lead in already loyal install base. Would be one thing to be behind and be in the middle. But Sony isn't playing catchup.

PS5 Speculation |OT12| - Aw hell, Transistor's running this again?

How hyped are you?

A little hyped

A lot of hyped

WALNUUUUUTSSSSS

Hyped enough to eat this whole bag of walnuts

Hyped enough to bite this moose

Hyped enough to scramble a dozen eggs

Hyped enough to be even more hyped, like, cyclical or something

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